Ktm 2 stroke updates

Racer142
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Racer142
I'm looking into possibly getting a new 250sx. Been watching the tpi bikes and saw the new prototype direct injection on the xc/w and heard they might make it to the sx bikes for 23. Anybody heard this? Not sure I want one or not but it did have my attention and curious about the rumor.
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Nellyinda803
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Nellyinda803 3/6/2022 7:47pm
3/6/2022 7:47pm
I've heard the same thing. Been looking forward to reserving one when some information becomes available
Broseph
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Broseph 3/6/2022 8:00pm
3/6/2022 8:00pm Edited Date/Time 3/6/2022 8:02pm
From what I gather, the new 250SX will have a redesigned engine with electronic power valve actuation and throttle body injection like what the 4 strokes run. Currently prefer the feel of a carb over TPI, but rumors of this new setup make it sound pretty good. Looking forward to reading real world reviews.
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tk2stroke
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tk2stroke 3/6/2022 8:21pm
3/6/2022 8:21pm
Sure hope the new versions have much more top end than the current generation. Current powerband leaves a lot to be desired for motocross.
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Racer142
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Racer142 3/11/2022 10:24am
3/11/2022 10:24am
A couple days after I posted this I saw spy photos of the possible 23 125/150. Black gas tank so I don't think it was an xc. Looked like 23 body work and no carb. Might just wait for them to be released.

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swordfish
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swordfish 3/11/2022 11:14am
3/11/2022 11:14am
Racer142 wrote:
I'm looking into possibly getting a new 250sx. Been watching the tpi bikes and saw the new prototype direct injection on the xc/w and heard they...
I'm looking into possibly getting a new 250sx. Been watching the tpi bikes and saw the new prototype direct injection on the xc/w and heard they might make it to the sx bikes for 23. Anybody heard this? Not sure I want one or not but it did have my attention and curious about the rumor.
It’s not direct injection. It’s TBI.
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Racer142
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Racer142 3/11/2022 5:41pm
3/11/2022 5:41pm
KTM Two Stroke wrote:
Heard about a 300 SX is coming out for 2023
This would be awesome! Guess I really am going to have to wait
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kott0n
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kott0n 3/11/2022 6:11pm
3/11/2022 6:11pm
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top end.

It kind of neuters what makes a 2 stroke fun, that instant hit of power.
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Motobeau179
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Motobeau179 3/11/2022 6:27pm
3/11/2022 6:27pm
kott0n wrote:
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top...
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top end.

It kind of neuters what makes a 2 stroke fun, that instant hit of power.
Not sure enough people adjust the power valve. I’m on a 22 300xc. FMF pipe and silencer, power valve adjustment one turn in from flush. It has plenty of two stroke hit. Came off of a 17 husky TC 250 and have a 2002 yz 250 as a “vintage bike”. Fun bikes, I’m sure the TBI will be a blast as well.
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alex69
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alex69 3/12/2022 2:07am
3/12/2022 2:07am
kott0n wrote:
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top...
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top end.

It kind of neuters what makes a 2 stroke fun, that instant hit of power.
Motobeau179 wrote:
Not sure enough people adjust the power valve. I’m on a 22 300xc. FMF pipe and silencer, power valve adjustment one turn in from flush. It...
Not sure enough people adjust the power valve. I’m on a 22 300xc. FMF pipe and silencer, power valve adjustment one turn in from flush. It has plenty of two stroke hit. Came off of a 17 husky TC 250 and have a 2002 yz 250 as a “vintage bike”. Fun bikes, I’m sure the TBI will be a blast as well.
The owners I spoke to are all dissatisfied with the behavior on the cross track.
In the cross country it is good, but they say on the cross track it is sometimes good, other times not.
I have heard it myself when i was a trackmarshall, one lap the bike picked up well after a jump, the next lap the bike held back.
And they have tried everything to get it better, different mapping, VHM head, different exhausts etc.
Most say that old SX300 with carburettor still runs best, but we are now 4 years further in development so who knows.
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swordfish
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swordfish 3/12/2022 3:39am
3/12/2022 3:39am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2022 3:42am
kott0n wrote:
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top...
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top end.

It kind of neuters what makes a 2 stroke fun, that instant hit of power.
You can make them feel how ever you want with heads, tuning and PV. My 300 has loads top end and if you want more or over rev add a pipe. A PC pipe adds a huge amount of mid to top. Get a reflash and low end partial throttle power and response is massive.
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swordfish
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swordfish 3/12/2022 3:40am
3/12/2022 3:40am
kott0n wrote:
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top...
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top end.

It kind of neuters what makes a 2 stroke fun, that instant hit of power.
Motobeau179 wrote:
Not sure enough people adjust the power valve. I’m on a 22 300xc. FMF pipe and silencer, power valve adjustment one turn in from flush. It...
Not sure enough people adjust the power valve. I’m on a 22 300xc. FMF pipe and silencer, power valve adjustment one turn in from flush. It has plenty of two stroke hit. Came off of a 17 husky TC 250 and have a 2002 yz 250 as a “vintage bike”. Fun bikes, I’m sure the TBI will be a blast as well.
alex69 wrote:
The owners I spoke to are all dissatisfied with the behavior on the cross track. In the cross country it is good, but they say on...
The owners I spoke to are all dissatisfied with the behavior on the cross track.
In the cross country it is good, but they say on the cross track it is sometimes good, other times not.
I have heard it myself when i was a trackmarshall, one lap the bike picked up well after a jump, the next lap the bike held back.
And they have tried everything to get it better, different mapping, VHM head, different exhausts etc.
Most say that old SX300 with carburettor still runs best, but we are now 4 years further in development so who knows.
That makes zero sense.
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sandman768
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sandman768 3/12/2022 5:49am
3/12/2022 5:49am
Sounds like a good time to pick up a 22 and wait for for them to get the TPI figured out…
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swordfish
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swordfish 3/12/2022 7:27am
3/12/2022 7:27am
sandman768 wrote:
Sounds like a good time to pick up a 22 and wait for for them to get the TPI figured out…
The TBI still makes the same peak HP, adds a tiny bit of bottom end response and you can pre mix. Tons of dyno sheets comparing carb model to TPi. For me the TPi is smoother and gets better traction which translates to better lap times.
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Broseph 3/12/2022 7:50am
3/12/2022 7:50am
sandman768 wrote:
Sounds like a good time to pick up a 22 and wait for for them to get the TPI figured out…
swordfish wrote:
The TBI still makes the same peak HP, adds a tiny bit of bottom end response and you can pre mix. Tons of dyno sheets comparing...
The TBI still makes the same peak HP, adds a tiny bit of bottom end response and you can pre mix. Tons of dyno sheets comparing carb model to TPi. For me the TPi is smoother and gets better traction which translates to better lap times.
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working out for KTM. Not sure if it’s warranty claims or customer feedback.
swordfish
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swordfish 3/12/2022 7:58am
3/12/2022 7:58am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2022 8:00am
sandman768 wrote:
Sounds like a good time to pick up a 22 and wait for for them to get the TPI figured out…
swordfish wrote:
The TBI still makes the same peak HP, adds a tiny bit of bottom end response and you can pre mix. Tons of dyno sheets comparing...
The TBI still makes the same peak HP, adds a tiny bit of bottom end response and you can pre mix. Tons of dyno sheets comparing carb model to TPi. For me the TPi is smoother and gets better traction which translates to better lap times.
Broseph wrote:
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working...
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working out for KTM. Not sure if it’s warranty claims or customer feedback.
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are pretty happy and have no issues. The main issue I see if CCP sensor problems which is an easy fix. Clean or replace.
TBI is most likely just for SX and possibly TX bikes as it saves weight and has a closer feel to a carb off the bottom and throttle response.
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Broseph 3/12/2022 9:11am
3/12/2022 9:11am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2022 9:49am
swordfish wrote:
The TBI still makes the same peak HP, adds a tiny bit of bottom end response and you can pre mix. Tons of dyno sheets comparing...
The TBI still makes the same peak HP, adds a tiny bit of bottom end response and you can pre mix. Tons of dyno sheets comparing carb model to TPi. For me the TPi is smoother and gets better traction which translates to better lap times.
Broseph wrote:
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working...
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working out for KTM. Not sure if it’s warranty claims or customer feedback.
swordfish wrote:
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are...
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are pretty happy and have no issues. The main issue I see if CCP sensor problems which is an easy fix. Clean or replace.
TBI is most likely just for SX and possibly TX bikes as it saves weight and has a closer feel to a carb off the bottom and throttle response.
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then it’s causing them issues.

TM already gave up on TPI after just a couple short years.

Full disclosure: I tried TPI, hated it, and moved on. If you like a muzzled 2 stroke that’s fine. I just prefer one that barks.
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Fouled Plug 3/12/2022 10:17am
3/12/2022 10:17am
Broseph wrote:
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working...
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working out for KTM. Not sure if it’s warranty claims or customer feedback.
swordfish wrote:
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are...
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are pretty happy and have no issues. The main issue I see if CCP sensor problems which is an easy fix. Clean or replace.
TBI is most likely just for SX and possibly TX bikes as it saves weight and has a closer feel to a carb off the bottom and throttle response.
Broseph wrote:
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then...
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then it’s causing them issues.

TM already gave up on TPI after just a couple short years.

Full disclosure: I tried TPI, hated it, and moved on. If you like a muzzled 2 stroke that’s fine. I just prefer one that barks.
The only thing I don't like about the KTM brand is the fact that they test products on the backs of customers. Sure they come out with some great bikes, but I feel they rush R&D get the product out, have various failures and rework the product from there. They have been testing TPI with trail riders/racers for a few years now. Ever wonder why it's taken seemingly forever to add the new tech to the SX range?

I wouldn't touch the first new model year 2023 SX two stroke personally. I'd give it a year or two for them to dial it in.
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forensic
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forensic 3/12/2022 10:24am
3/12/2022 10:24am
I have the 2nd gen TPI on my woods bike and was seriously disappointed at first with it. After a $1100 ECU and some tuning I am pretty happy with it.
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Ryan625
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Ryan625 3/12/2022 10:34am
3/12/2022 10:34am
For those not happy with TPI, you need to play with and tune it. I have zero bolt on parts on mine aside from a silencer, it was reflashed once by the local KTM shop, and I adjusted the powervalve. I love the bike now and it responds well, it’s the best woods bike I have ever had by far
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swordfish
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swordfish 3/12/2022 11:27am
3/12/2022 11:27am
forensic wrote:
I have the 2nd gen TPI on my woods bike and was seriously disappointed at first with it. After a $1100 ECU and some tuning I...
I have the 2nd gen TPI on my woods bike and was seriously disappointed at first with it. After a $1100 ECU and some tuning I am pretty happy with it.
That sucks man. For $225 you can get an awesome tune with a money back guarantee, an idle screw, red PV spring as well as an OBD reader with dongle.
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swordfish 3/12/2022 11:31am
3/12/2022 11:31am Edited Date/Time 3/12/2022 11:33am
Broseph wrote:
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working...
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working out for KTM. Not sure if it’s warranty claims or customer feedback.
swordfish wrote:
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are...
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are pretty happy and have no issues. The main issue I see if CCP sensor problems which is an easy fix. Clean or replace.
TBI is most likely just for SX and possibly TX bikes as it saves weight and has a closer feel to a carb off the bottom and throttle response.
Broseph wrote:
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then...
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then it’s causing them issues.

TM already gave up on TPI after just a couple short years.

Full disclosure: I tried TPI, hated it, and moved on. If you like a muzzled 2 stroke that’s fine. I just prefer one that barks.
TM isn’t really forced to follow emissions regs. The guy who developed the TPi that KTM adopted helped TM with their system. I’ve seen the photo’s of the 22 TM cylinder without the Port injectors but still nothing official from them or any reviews yet. I don’t think they switched to TPi because there were issues. TBI is easier and if they are not forced to, why not. The TM TPi works great. My buddy just picked one up. We were comparing against a 21 EN300 carb and my 21 TX.
OnTheCrossbar 3/12/2022 2:11pm
3/12/2022 2:11pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2022 3:56pm
Broseph wrote:
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working...
If the difference were tiny, I don’t think they’d be abandoning TPI after all they have invested in it. There’s something about TPI that’s not working out for KTM. Not sure if it’s warranty claims or customer feedback.
swordfish wrote:
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are...
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are pretty happy and have no issues. The main issue I see if CCP sensor problems which is an easy fix. Clean or replace.
TBI is most likely just for SX and possibly TX bikes as it saves weight and has a closer feel to a carb off the bottom and throttle response.
Broseph wrote:
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then...
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then it’s causing them issues.

TM already gave up on TPI after just a couple short years.

Full disclosure: I tried TPI, hated it, and moved on. If you like a muzzled 2 stroke that’s fine. I just prefer one that barks.
I have always disliked the XC line, but decided to give an XC TPI a shot as my knee is trash and I wanted E-start. I put a HC head on it, had the ecu tuned and adjusted the PV, still hated it. Sold it at 40hrs and picked up my 6th 250sx w/carb. So much better. Definitely curious about the speculated new TBI, if it were somewhere in between TPI & Carb I think it would be a great compromise.
swordfish
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swordfish 3/12/2022 4:00pm
3/12/2022 4:00pm
swordfish wrote:
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are...
TBI will not pass Euro5 so I doubt they are abandoning TPi. Any TPi issues get overstated like any issue with a bike. Most owners are pretty happy and have no issues. The main issue I see if CCP sensor problems which is an easy fix. Clean or replace.
TBI is most likely just for SX and possibly TX bikes as it saves weight and has a closer feel to a carb off the bottom and throttle response.
Broseph wrote:
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then...
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then it’s causing them issues.

TM already gave up on TPI after just a couple short years.

Full disclosure: I tried TPI, hated it, and moved on. If you like a muzzled 2 stroke that’s fine. I just prefer one that barks.
OnTheCrossbar wrote:
I have always disliked the XC line, but decided to give an XC TPI a shot as my knee is trash and I wanted E-start. I...
I have always disliked the XC line, but decided to give an XC TPI a shot as my knee is trash and I wanted E-start. I put a HC head on it, had the ecu tuned and adjusted the PV, still hated it. Sold it at 40hrs and picked up my 6th 250sx w/carb. So much better. Definitely curious about the speculated new TBI, if it were somewhere in between TPI & Carb I think it would be a great compromise.
It’s better but it still doesn’t feel like a carb.
ShipLap
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ShipLap 3/12/2022 4:52pm
3/12/2022 4:52pm
300's are great. Lots of 'em in Moab.
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Leave Us To
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Leave Us To 3/12/2022 5:04pm
3/12/2022 5:04pm
Broseph wrote:
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then...
The proof will be in what KTM does. If they abandon TPI in markets where they’re not forced to (U.S. closed course bikes for example) then it’s causing them issues.

TM already gave up on TPI after just a couple short years.

Full disclosure: I tried TPI, hated it, and moved on. If you like a muzzled 2 stroke that’s fine. I just prefer one that barks.
Nothing wrong with KTM using what is best for the application. KTM to meet emissions use TPI but for racing TBI works better. Not real familiar with the Euro market so unaware if TM makes motorcycles that have to meet emissions.
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FGR01 3/12/2022 5:30pm
3/12/2022 5:30pm
Vital 2-stroke riders: 2-strokes need injection because swapping $5 pieces of brass in 3 minutes is total bullshit.

Also Vital 2-stroke riders: I am totally fine with spending $1100 on a reflash and other electronics, and taking my bike to shops for computer tuning.
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Racer142
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Racer142 3/13/2022 8:40am
3/13/2022 8:40am
1st year bikes can be scary for sure but honestly if I can get a sx300 stock I would probably go for it. I wouldn't be upset getting a 22 sx250 either though.
Crossup
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Crossup 3/13/2022 8:53am
3/13/2022 8:53am Edited Date/Time 3/13/2022 8:54am
kott0n wrote:
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top...
I hope to ride one soon but if you ask anyone who has ridden a TPI bike, they say they are flat. No hit or top end.

It kind of neuters what makes a 2 stroke fun, that instant hit of power.
swordfish wrote:
You can make them feel how ever you want with heads, tuning and PV. My 300 has loads top end and if you want more or...
You can make them feel how ever you want with heads, tuning and PV. My 300 has loads top end and if you want more or over rev add a pipe. A PC pipe adds a huge amount of mid to top. Get a reflash and low end partial throttle power and response is massive.
Yep. Billy Bolt adjusts his power valve on the trail. Sometimes in the middle of a greasy climb, he will stop and give it a 1/4 turn. I have had a TPI 250 since 2018. It does not have a hard hit at the bottom out of the box. Lugs fine. People that want a harder hit add a high compression head and ECU.
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Spooner 3/13/2022 9:25am
3/13/2022 9:25am
I have a 20 TX300i and previously had a 2012 250XC. I definitely get that the TPI bikes don't have a hit like the carbed bikes but I think its just that its so much smoother feeling. Its sneeky fast and maybe not as 'exciting' but it doesn't wear you out as much either. I did a Fatty and silencer and messed with the power valve and I like it a lot. I'd still mainly say it doesn't pull great when you really rev it out so I'm hoping the TBI bikes will have the super precise bottom end power but more pull on top.
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