Kit Suspension

tcallahan707
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6/8/2017 6:16pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2017 8:56pm
I did a bit of searching but couldn't find the answer so I apologize if this has been hashed out before. With kit suspension, is there a fairly accepted hierarchy with what setup is best between KYB, WP, Showa, Ohlins, and anyone else? Or is it about matching certain setups with certain bike models? Or are they all fairly equivalent and it's personal preference? Any insight to purchasing would be great.
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LumpDog841
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6/8/2017 6:35pm
It doesn't matter what you get, if it's not setup for you and you're not willing to spend some time adjusting the clickers. Works suspension is only hardware and only as good as the setup.
langhammx
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6/8/2017 6:43pm
LumpDog841 wrote:
It doesn't matter what you get, if it's not setup for you and you're not willing to spend some time adjusting the clickers. Works suspension is...
It doesn't matter what you get, if it's not setup for you and you're not willing to spend some time adjusting the clickers. Works suspension is only hardware and only as good as the setup.
^^ THIS ^^

What bike are you riding ?
tcallahan707
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6/8/2017 6:51pm
LumpDog841 wrote:
It doesn't matter what you get, if it's not setup for you and you're not willing to spend some time adjusting the clickers. Works suspension is...
It doesn't matter what you get, if it's not setup for you and you're not willing to spend some time adjusting the clickers. Works suspension is only hardware and only as good as the setup.
langhammx wrote:
^^ THIS ^^

What bike are you riding ?
I understand that. I'm on a 17 CRF450.
LumpDog841
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6/8/2017 7:15pm
LumpDog841 wrote:
It doesn't matter what you get, if it's not setup for you and you're not willing to spend some time adjusting the clickers. Works suspension is...
It doesn't matter what you get, if it's not setup for you and you're not willing to spend some time adjusting the clickers. Works suspension is only hardware and only as good as the setup.
langhammx wrote:
^^ THIS ^^

What bike are you riding ?
'17 KTM 250SX with FC Cone Valve forks. And a Jbone Motorworks ported engine. Smile Check my history I put up a bike build last week.

The Shop

LumpDog841
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6/8/2017 7:22pm
I understand that. I'm on a 17 CRF450.
My understanding is the new forks on the 17 CRF450 is basically Showa A-kit spring forks without the coatings. I will say though that the bottoming resistance on my CV forks compared to the re-valved stockers is unreal. Honestly I believe all "kit" or "works" stuff will work really well with a good setup, and don't believe there is a "hierarchy". I mean maybe there is but I'll never be fast/good enough to tell.
tcallahan707
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6/8/2017 7:29pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2017 7:31pm
I understand that. I'm on a 17 CRF450.
LumpDog841 wrote:
My understanding is the new forks on the 17 CRF450 is basically Showa A-kit spring forks without the coatings. I will say though that the bottoming...
My understanding is the new forks on the 17 CRF450 is basically Showa A-kit spring forks without the coatings. I will say though that the bottoming resistance on my CV forks compared to the re-valved stockers is unreal. Honestly I believe all "kit" or "works" stuff will work really well with a good setup, and don't believe there is a "hierarchy". I mean maybe there is but I'll never be fast/good enough to tell.
Yea that is my understanding as well. It's why I held off from looking into kit stuff until now. I'm actually really happy with the fork but the improvement I've felt with that only makes me wonder more about how much better a full kit setup would feel.

That's what I feel like would be the case. It's similar to pipes. Might as well go for the ones that have the most test time with a particular bike/team, although the difference is very minimal. Either that or it's probably more important which one my suspension guy is most familiar with.
mxdevon
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6/8/2017 7:48pm
I've split the last few years between Suzuki, Ktm, and Honda. I've had kit and non kit suspension. As far as the different brands of kit stuff it's very hard to say which is "better" because suspension feel at the top level is like critiquing art....each individual is going to have their own preferences and taste, none of which may be wrong.

I agree setup and a good understanding of it is more important than the name on the equipment, but each brand certainly has its own unique feel or traits in my opinion. Personally I like kyb generally, but that's just my opinion.
There's a reason you see top guys going from brand to brand, air to spring etc.....none of them are bad they're all just chasing a feeling. That's about as clear as mud but I hope it helps.

Ps: if I were you and had a 17 Honda I would just have someone set up my stock stuff right. It should turn out really good!
tcallahan707
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6/8/2017 8:00pm
mxdevon wrote:
I've split the last few years between Suzuki, Ktm, and Honda. I've had kit and non kit suspension. As far as the different brands of kit...
I've split the last few years between Suzuki, Ktm, and Honda. I've had kit and non kit suspension. As far as the different brands of kit stuff it's very hard to say which is "better" because suspension feel at the top level is like critiquing art....each individual is going to have their own preferences and taste, none of which may be wrong.

I agree setup and a good understanding of it is more important than the name on the equipment, but each brand certainly has its own unique feel or traits in my opinion. Personally I like kyb generally, but that's just my opinion.
There's a reason you see top guys going from brand to brand, air to spring etc.....none of them are bad they're all just chasing a feeling. That's about as clear as mud but I hope it helps.

Ps: if I were you and had a 17 Honda I would just have someone set up my stock stuff right. It should turn out really good!
Great post. Thank you. I don't have any plans to make a change because I'm pretty happy with my setup currently (still more work to do though). I was just curious because I'm starting to think about what I want to do next year. Leaning towards keeping the 17 and dialing it in but still open to the idea of a kit.
Badd127
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6/8/2017 10:31pm
I fitted kyb spring forks, and factory kit shock to my rmz450. It was set up for me by technical touch in Belgium. The setup feels great, and I'm sure I could continue to ride it as is, (I have played with clickers and sag a bit) it's really very good. But I'm going to do a test session with my local kyb guy, to see how good I can get it, and hopefully learn a little more about setup for different conditions.



Badd127
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6/8/2017 10:57pm
I had the choice between öhlins, showa a-kit or the kyb kit. I went with the kyb kit because of price and availability of parts and support. Parts and support are a little more difficult to get for the showa A-kit here in Sweden. Obviously parts and support for öhlins are readily available here, but their products seem a bit more involved, as in servicing, maintenance and setup. I like the simplicity of the kyb stuff, and the fact it is based on production suspension.

P.s. please don't tell anyone in sweden that I'm not a fan of öhlins. I'm worried I might get deported.
JB 19
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6/8/2017 11:25pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2017 11:33pm
Dal Soggio Sphere Cartridges. I think they may only be available for KTM's. I have a set on my 16' 350. So far they are really really good. So plush it's crazy and with 40 clicks of compression and rebound they cover a wide range conditions. I'm going to do a small write up, but want to ride in some really gnarly big braking bumps first.

So far in small chop and trails they are really good. I need to race a harescramble with them so I can test them in that environment, but that's what they were designed for so I'd guess they will be great. Mine are sprung for motocross.

I know on a moto board it's hard to believe, but word on the street is that guys are selling their Cone Valves and going with these. Protune in Welston Ohio did mine.

For what it's worth, I had Ohlins forks sprung for me before this and just didn't like them. They were too stiff. It is possible that they had been setup for a pro rider since they were used. I don't think they were because I bought them from a good guy on here, but I couldn't get myself to like them. The Dal Soggio are exactly what I was looking for in terms of plushness.
ML512
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6/9/2017 6:34am
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
tcallahan707
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6/9/2017 7:04am
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
That's awfully nice of you to go out of your way like that just to answer my question!
slipdog
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6/9/2017 7:26am
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
That's awfully nice of you to go out of your way like that just to answer my question!
I think that sometimes people don't realize how much ML has raised the technical aspect of VitalMX.
jeffro503
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6/9/2017 7:37am
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
Oh That will be a sweet article to read. I've always dug the technical side of the suspension , setups , parts used , ect...

Would be really cool to see some sets torn down and parts compared. There are so many types of forks and shocks now days , it gets confusing on exactly what a guy is looking at.
T-Fish
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6/9/2017 7:42am
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
That's awfully nice of you to go out of your way like that just to answer my question!
slipdog wrote:
I think that sometimes people don't realize how much ML has raised the technical aspect of VitalMX.
It's too bad he's not capable of bottoming out works suspension though.
cmotodad
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6/9/2017 7:55am
If you need a test rider for the comparison, let me know ML. Set up on any suspension is most critical. We run some akit on a couple bikes we have. Once you learn to make the changes from stock suspension to akit, there is a very confident-safe feel. Supposedly the 17 CRF forks are akit clones but heard the adjustment needle is different and makes tuning much more difficult. Small clicker adjustment makes a big difference. Just my .02
nine1seven
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6/9/2017 10:37am
I've been riding with Technical Touch KYB Factory Kit suspension for a few months now. It's working great for me. I rode with the stock suspension on my 17 CRF450 for about 10 hours, played with clickers and sag and it was clear that at least springs and maybe a revalve was in order for my 200lb.weight. Springs weren't even available for the new Honda yet, and while I was searching I found a good deal from a place called Smart Shop out of Estonia. Jaanus valved and sprung it for me and with the favorable currency exchange rate it wasn't all that expensive. They were great to deal with and I got it pretty quickly.

The Fork/Shock are about 1lb lighter than the stock suspension in spite of the heavier springs, and you don't need new clamps because the top tubes are the same dimensions as stock. The bottom tubes are 48mm as opposed to the stock 49mm. The shock body is shaped slightly different than stock and the reservoir looks a little bigger. It all looks trick as hell with the DLC and Kashima. On the track, I noticed an improvement right away. It's got similar plushness to the stock suspension but it doesn't blow through the stroke and bottom out. The bike handles much better, mostly because the forks stay up in the stroke better than the stock stuff. I ran 103mm of sag and actually slid the forks up higher in the clamps than I did with the stock forks so it turns amazing and still don't get any headshake. Is it better than the stock revalved and sprung suspension? I'm going to ride some buddies bikes that had their stock stuff revalved and compare and I'll let you guys know, but I'm happy with my purchase so far.








bvm111
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6/9/2017 11:08am
I would love to have a set of those KYB's from Technical Touch on my KX450!!!

lucero10x
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6/9/2017 1:28pm
nine1seven wrote:
I've been riding with Technical Touch KYB Factory Kit suspension for a few months now. It's working great for me. I rode with the stock suspension...
I've been riding with Technical Touch KYB Factory Kit suspension for a few months now. It's working great for me. I rode with the stock suspension on my 17 CRF450 for about 10 hours, played with clickers and sag and it was clear that at least springs and maybe a revalve was in order for my 200lb.weight. Springs weren't even available for the new Honda yet, and while I was searching I found a good deal from a place called Smart Shop out of Estonia. Jaanus valved and sprung it for me and with the favorable currency exchange rate it wasn't all that expensive. They were great to deal with and I got it pretty quickly.

The Fork/Shock are about 1lb lighter than the stock suspension in spite of the heavier springs, and you don't need new clamps because the top tubes are the same dimensions as stock. The bottom tubes are 48mm as opposed to the stock 49mm. The shock body is shaped slightly different than stock and the reservoir looks a little bigger. It all looks trick as hell with the DLC and Kashima. On the track, I noticed an improvement right away. It's got similar plushness to the stock suspension but it doesn't blow through the stroke and bottom out. The bike handles much better, mostly because the forks stay up in the stroke better than the stock stuff. I ran 103mm of sag and actually slid the forks up higher in the clamps than I did with the stock forks so it turns amazing and still don't get any headshake. Is it better than the stock revalved and sprung suspension? I'm going to ride some buddies bikes that had their stock stuff revalved and compare and I'll let you guys know, but I'm happy with my purchase so far.








Would you dare divulge the price?
mxb2
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6/9/2017 2:06pm
nine1seven wrote:
I've been riding with Technical Touch KYB Factory Kit suspension for a few months now. It's working great for me. I rode with the stock suspension...
I've been riding with Technical Touch KYB Factory Kit suspension for a few months now. It's working great for me. I rode with the stock suspension on my 17 CRF450 for about 10 hours, played with clickers and sag and it was clear that at least springs and maybe a revalve was in order for my 200lb.weight. Springs weren't even available for the new Honda yet, and while I was searching I found a good deal from a place called Smart Shop out of Estonia. Jaanus valved and sprung it for me and with the favorable currency exchange rate it wasn't all that expensive. They were great to deal with and I got it pretty quickly.

The Fork/Shock are about 1lb lighter than the stock suspension in spite of the heavier springs, and you don't need new clamps because the top tubes are the same dimensions as stock. The bottom tubes are 48mm as opposed to the stock 49mm. The shock body is shaped slightly different than stock and the reservoir looks a little bigger. It all looks trick as hell with the DLC and Kashima. On the track, I noticed an improvement right away. It's got similar plushness to the stock suspension but it doesn't blow through the stroke and bottom out. The bike handles much better, mostly because the forks stay up in the stroke better than the stock stuff. I ran 103mm of sag and actually slid the forks up higher in the clamps than I did with the stock forks so it turns amazing and still don't get any headshake. Is it better than the stock revalved and sprung suspension? I'm going to ride some buddies bikes that had their stock stuff revalved and compare and I'll let you guys know, but I'm happy with my purchase so far.








lucero10x wrote:
Would you dare divulge the price?
Technical.touch, x trig USA. Have prices , not online but by phone.
10000hrs
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6/9/2017 2:39pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2017 3:03pm
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
Excellent. Ive always been skeptical that anybody who dropped 10 large on kit suspension would have anything negative to say about their purchase or acknowledge they cant feel the difference.
erik_94COBRA
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6/9/2017 3:00pm
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
Assuming you've ridden all of these setups at one point on different bikes, which one do you think you'll like best?
6/9/2017 3:23pm
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
That will be cool.. I hope it is all spring forks Wink and includes the Showa a kit, Technical touches KYB kit, and WP cone valved forks.
ML512
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6/9/2017 4:59pm
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
That will be cool.. I hope it is all spring forks ;) and includes the Showa a kit, Technical touches KYB kit, and WP cone valved...
That will be cool.. I hope it is all spring forks Wink and includes the Showa a kit, Technical touches KYB kit, and WP cone valved forks.
All spring, although I requested air as well but I don't think it'll happen.

Showa is directly supporting, Enzo is doing KYB, Ohlins I'm working with one of the Swedes for intial setup and a US guy will attend the test, then WP USA is taking care of their stuff.
ML512
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6/9/2017 5:00pm
Btw, Dirtworks12, who threw this one sideways, was the same dude from the other kit suspension post...that's why his posts have been deleted.
ML512
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6/9/2017 5:02pm
ML512 wrote:
We're doing a kitnsuspension comparison between Showa, KYB, Ohlins and WP the first week of July with '17 CRF450Rs.
Assuming you've ridden all of these setups at one point on different bikes, which one do you think you'll like best?
They've all been on different bikes, different tracks, ect...

That's why we're doing this test.

And I think there's things I'll like about each set over the others.
jjabrams77
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6/9/2017 6:53pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2017 7:19pm
mxdevon wrote:
I've split the last few years between Suzuki, Ktm, and Honda. I've had kit and non kit suspension. As far as the different brands of kit...
I've split the last few years between Suzuki, Ktm, and Honda. I've had kit and non kit suspension. As far as the different brands of kit stuff it's very hard to say which is "better" because suspension feel at the top level is like critiquing art....each individual is going to have their own preferences and taste, none of which may be wrong.

I agree setup and a good understanding of it is more important than the name on the equipment, but each brand certainly has its own unique feel or traits in my opinion. Personally I like kyb generally, but that's just my opinion.
There's a reason you see top guys going from brand to brand, air to spring etc.....none of them are bad they're all just chasing a feeling. That's about as clear as mud but I hope it helps.

Ps: if I were you and had a 17 Honda I would just have someone set up my stock stuff right. It should turn out really good!
I haven't learned my lesson and keep creating new accounts*
jjabrams77
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6/9/2017 7:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/9/2017 7:19pm
I haven't learned my lesson and keep creating new accounts*

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