Ken Roczen says sand was added to Red Bud in 2018

Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 7/6/2021 10:16am
7/6/2021 10:16am
This isn’t about the MXDN. This about adding sand to every freaking track on the national circuit and losing our variety
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davis224
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davis224 7/6/2021 10:32am
7/6/2021 10:32am
kpiper wrote:
Tomac loves sand and is really fast in it...so the sand is not what happened in 2018.
McG194 wrote:
I think what ruined it was it was such a different track from July. I have a theory I have developed that it was partly so...
I think what ruined it was it was such a different track from July.

I have a theory I have developed that it was partly so different because of who was riding it. The Euros have a vastly different riding style than we do so the ruts and berms develop for them. I think if you put the best 3 Euro riders on an American National track during national weekend they would be just as out of place as we were. The ruts, berms and bumps would develop far differently than they are used to.

Over the course of 3 motos at an average of 16 laps per race you're looking at over 1700 laps run by Euro style riders and less than 150 by Americans. Of course the track will be different from what we are used to.
TooTallJason wrote:
What? How on Earth does a bike ridden by a European make a different rut than a bike ridden by an American? Seems a bit silly...
What? How on Earth does a bike ridden by a European make a different rut than a bike ridden by an American?

Seems a bit silly no? Like the fastest line around a corner doesn't change depending on what country you're from.
GP riders tend to sweep corners more in a higher gear, while Tomac was flying in in a lower gear trying to bounce off of the rut/berm and burying the bike. Decoster and plenty more talked about it after the MXoN
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McG194
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McG194 7/6/2021 11:07am
7/6/2021 11:07am
kpiper wrote:
Tomac loves sand and is really fast in it...so the sand is not what happened in 2018.
McG194 wrote:
I think what ruined it was it was such a different track from July. I have a theory I have developed that it was partly so...
I think what ruined it was it was such a different track from July.

I have a theory I have developed that it was partly so different because of who was riding it. The Euros have a vastly different riding style than we do so the ruts and berms develop for them. I think if you put the best 3 Euro riders on an American National track during national weekend they would be just as out of place as we were. The ruts, berms and bumps would develop far differently than they are used to.

Over the course of 3 motos at an average of 16 laps per race you're looking at over 1700 laps run by Euro style riders and less than 150 by Americans. Of course the track will be different from what we are used to.
TooTallJason wrote:
What? How on Earth does a bike ridden by a European make a different rut than a bike ridden by an American? Seems a bit silly...
What? How on Earth does a bike ridden by a European make a different rut than a bike ridden by an American?

Seems a bit silly no? Like the fastest line around a corner doesn't change depending on what country you're from.
Then you aint watching.

Americans have always had a more point and shoot style than the Euros. The Euros are way more flowy and a consistent arc around a corner. American tracks always have hooks in the turn at the end of the rut.

The first time I ever heard anything about it was Hunter Lawrence getting interviewed and he said the GP tracks develop far differently than the National tracks do. Maybe I don't know shit but a guy that has raced both sure does.
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Robbirob25
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Robbirob25 7/6/2021 1:10pm
7/6/2021 1:10pm
I think what is missing here is sand being added vs sand added in 2018? There is no doubt has been added over the years, but what i believe Tim is saying none was added in 2018, compared to what was there in 2017.
I could be wrong, but that is how i interpret Tim's reply... Regardless, it is still the best track in the country in my opinion. I have been racing there since 1984, and continue to do so.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/6/2021 2:12pm
7/6/2021 2:12pm
Seems to me that sand is a much better option than “frame corrosion”; but, hey, that’s jus’ me bein’ me.
Grinning
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Thisusernameisavailable 7/6/2021 2:18pm
7/6/2021 2:18pm
McG194 wrote:
I think what ruined it was it was such a different track from July. I have a theory I have developed that it was partly so...
I think what ruined it was it was such a different track from July.

I have a theory I have developed that it was partly so different because of who was riding it. The Euros have a vastly different riding style than we do so the ruts and berms develop for them. I think if you put the best 3 Euro riders on an American National track during national weekend they would be just as out of place as we were. The ruts, berms and bumps would develop far differently than they are used to.

Over the course of 3 motos at an average of 16 laps per race you're looking at over 1700 laps run by Euro style riders and less than 150 by Americans. Of course the track will be different from what we are used to.
TooTallJason wrote:
What? How on Earth does a bike ridden by a European make a different rut than a bike ridden by an American? Seems a bit silly...
What? How on Earth does a bike ridden by a European make a different rut than a bike ridden by an American?

Seems a bit silly no? Like the fastest line around a corner doesn't change depending on what country you're from.
McG194 wrote:
Then you aint watching. Americans have always had a more point and shoot style than the Euros. The Euros are way more flowy and a consistent...
Then you aint watching.

Americans have always had a more point and shoot style than the Euros. The Euros are way more flowy and a consistent arc around a corner. American tracks always have hooks in the turn at the end of the rut.

The first time I ever heard anything about it was Hunter Lawrence getting interviewed and he said the GP tracks develop far differently than the National tracks do. Maybe I don't know shit but a guy that has raced both sure does.
You Sir, are correct.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/6/2021 2:34pm
7/6/2021 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2021 8:43pm
Flowy…?
For real?
Well…
James F^_king Stewart
Jeremy McGrath
Marty Smith
Jason Anderson
Kurt Caselli
Justin Cooper

We’ve got your Flow, Flo!



Get this & get it straight: EVERY DOG HAS IT’S “DAY”.
Period.

We will do this thing…
Again.
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dboivin
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dboivin 7/6/2021 3:42pm
7/6/2021 3:42pm
Richard Tease II wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/06/500818/s1200_red_bud.jpg[/img] mic drop?


mic drop?
lol i knew there was photos of sand piles floating around. i remember seeing them.
yak651
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yak651 7/6/2021 4:29pm
7/6/2021 4:29pm
Richard Tease II wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/06/500818/s1200_red_bud.jpg[/img] mic drop?


mic drop?
dboivin wrote:
lol i knew there was photos of sand piles floating around. i remember seeing them.
Well did he really say sand wasn't added or just that sand wasn't added the day of the race....
FlaNard
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FlaNard 7/6/2021 4:52pm
7/6/2021 4:52pm
robkinuk wrote:
It still seems the consensus of most people on this thread that the sand ruined Red Bud and crushed Team USA victory. Without adding sand the...
It still seems the consensus of most people on this thread that the sand ruined Red Bud and crushed Team USA victory.
Without adding sand the race probably wouldn't have run!
Several Euro teams adapted better to the tough conditions than some members of Team USA.
So Team USA didn't win? tough shit, get over it. Their time will come again..................
Nah, we got out ridden.
1
Richard Tease II 7/6/2021 6:57pm
7/6/2021 6:57pm
Richard Tease II wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/06/500818/s1200_red_bud.jpg[/img] mic drop?


mic drop?
dboivin wrote:
lol i knew there was photos of sand piles floating around. i remember seeing them.
yak651 wrote:
Well did he really say sand wasn't added or just that sand wasn't added the day of the race....
To be fair thats from the weekend on friday
Johnny Ringo
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Johnny Ringo 7/6/2021 8:18pm
7/6/2021 8:18pm
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
Glen Coldenoff floats over that shit. Never bitches either. Just waxed everyone.
We are aware, thank you for the incredible insight. You are missing the point.
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SWOHIO GUY
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SWOHIO GUY 7/6/2021 8:35pm
7/6/2021 8:35pm
I didn’t understand why they took out the off camber switchback for MXDN. If they were trying to add standing room it didn’t really provide that, I didn’t see anyone standing in that area. Plus the speed they were hitting the tabletop wasn’t safe in my opinion, I saw a ton of big ones the whole weekend at MXDN.
ctbale
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ctbale 7/6/2021 10:51pm
7/6/2021 10:51pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2021 10:52pm
jkoch249 wrote:
I found this jem on YouTube from the 1986 national. I was there in 85, and this is how I remember it. Mostly hard pack/clay.
https://youtu.be/acvNFUlOD0U
Dam that's cool!
1
McG194
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McG194 7/7/2021 4:54am
7/7/2021 4:54am
TeamGreen wrote:
Flowy…? For real? Well… James F^_king Stewart Jeremy McGrath Marty Smith Jason Anderson Kurt Caselli Justin Cooper We’ve got your Flow, Flo! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/06/500817/s1200_FD0E99A9_E5C5_4A9B_A488_B043EEFD3689.jpg[/img] Get this &...
Flowy…?
For real?
Well…
James F^_king Stewart
Jeremy McGrath
Marty Smith
Jason Anderson
Kurt Caselli
Justin Cooper

We’ve got your Flow, Flo!



Get this & get it straight: EVERY DOG HAS IT’S “DAY”.
Period.

We will do this thing…
Again.
Kurt Caselli?????

WTF does he have to do with the discussion? We are talking motocross you dolt.

Guys that make my point.
Eli..... Hammers berms
Dungey......... Cutting corners short turning under guys
Poto.............. Rear wheel steering

Every one of those dudes are bad fast on a motorcycle and arguably the fastest in the world at their time, none of them are known as smooth, flowy riders.

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kpiper
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kpiper 7/7/2021 8:05am
7/7/2021 8:05am
TeamGreen wrote:
Flowy…? For real? Well… James F^_king Stewart Jeremy McGrath Marty Smith Jason Anderson Kurt Caselli Justin Cooper We’ve got your Flow, Flo! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/06/500817/s1200_FD0E99A9_E5C5_4A9B_A488_B043EEFD3689.jpg[/img] Get this &...
Flowy…?
For real?
Well…
James F^_king Stewart
Jeremy McGrath
Marty Smith
Jason Anderson
Kurt Caselli
Justin Cooper

We’ve got your Flow, Flo!



Get this & get it straight: EVERY DOG HAS IT’S “DAY”.
Period.

We will do this thing…
Again.
McG194 wrote:
Kurt Caselli????? WTF does he have to do with the discussion? We are talking motocross you dolt. Guys that make my point. Eli..... Hammers berms Dungey...
Kurt Caselli?????

WTF does he have to do with the discussion? We are talking motocross you dolt.

Guys that make my point.
Eli..... Hammers berms
Dungey......... Cutting corners short turning under guys
Poto.............. Rear wheel steering

Every one of those dudes are bad fast on a motorcycle and arguably the fastest in the world at their time, none of them are known as smooth, flowy riders.
Eli at times, like the 2nd moto Saturday at Red Bud, looked really smooth and flowy to me.
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McG194
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McG194 7/7/2021 8:27am
7/7/2021 8:27am
TeamGreen wrote:
Flowy…? For real? Well… James F^_king Stewart Jeremy McGrath Marty Smith Jason Anderson Kurt Caselli Justin Cooper We’ve got your Flow, Flo! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/06/500817/s1200_FD0E99A9_E5C5_4A9B_A488_B043EEFD3689.jpg[/img] Get this &...
Flowy…?
For real?
Well…
James F^_king Stewart
Jeremy McGrath
Marty Smith
Jason Anderson
Kurt Caselli
Justin Cooper

We’ve got your Flow, Flo!



Get this & get it straight: EVERY DOG HAS IT’S “DAY”.
Period.

We will do this thing…
Again.
McG194 wrote:
Kurt Caselli????? WTF does he have to do with the discussion? We are talking motocross you dolt. Guys that make my point. Eli..... Hammers berms Dungey...
Kurt Caselli?????

WTF does he have to do with the discussion? We are talking motocross you dolt.

Guys that make my point.
Eli..... Hammers berms
Dungey......... Cutting corners short turning under guys
Poto.............. Rear wheel steering

Every one of those dudes are bad fast on a motorcycle and arguably the fastest in the world at their time, none of them are known as smooth, flowy riders.
kpiper wrote:
Eli at times, like the 2nd moto Saturday at Red Bud, looked really smooth and flowy to me.
You are right, I am wrong. Looking back at it I thought I was watching JMB.
1
gt80rider
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gt80rider 7/7/2021 9:35am
7/7/2021 9:35am
Red Bud has gone downhill since the MXDN....... used to be one of the worlds premier tracks, now it is just another half wanna be supercross, half wanna be MXGP track, that is just a mess...... the exact same thing can be said about Dilla.................. so sad our best tracks have been turned into these messes..........
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teamddr
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teamddr 7/7/2021 10:44am
7/7/2021 10:44am
Yeah yeah yeah
If it wasn’t for those pesky euros coming over here 2018 our beloved Red Bud would be just perfect. Would ya listen to yourselves
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80sMXbadboy
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80sMXbadboy 7/7/2021 5:52pm
7/7/2021 5:52pm
Its funny Thunder Valley used to be blue groove adobe and now it looks like Red Bud used to.
kpiper
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kpiper 7/8/2021 7:44am
7/8/2021 7:44am
Motocross is supposed to be 'natural terrain'.

Let's go back to that best we can. One easy way is to stop ripping tracks.
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