Keefer's 450 shootout next week should be interesting

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9/12/2017 10:09 PM

He talks about it in this podcast. https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/keefer-tested/e/51456362?autoplay=true

He is going to have a round table podcast at the end of each day of testing with a few guys that are doing the testing.

Looking forward to it.

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"Who cares about what other people think"

9/13/2017 3:40 AM

I expect it to be very honest and informative!

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2020 YZ450F
2018 KTM 450SXF FE
2016 YZ250F 2008 CRF450R
2015 YZ250F 2008 CRF250R
2001 CR250R
2010 YZ250 2012 CRF150R
2009 YZ125 2010 KX109.5
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9/13/2017 6:38 AM

Until testing starts to include lap times I will take it with a grain of salt.

Just like many US series riders, tester's frequently favor an engine with a hit, and stiff suspension. I need to be convinced that is the fastest way around a moto.

Otherwise,
[LINK TO IMAGE]

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/13/2017 3:18 PM

Yamaha wins lol

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when in doubt, pin it out

9/13/2017 3:41 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Until testing starts to include lap times I will take it with a grain of salt.

Just like many US series riders, tester's frequently favor an engine with a hit, and stiff suspension. I need to be convinced that is the fastest way around a moto.

Otherwise,
[LINK TO IMAGE]

Have you listened to any of his previous bike review podcasts???

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9/13/2017 3:45 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Until testing starts to include lap times I will take it with a grain of salt.

Just like many US series riders, tester's frequently favor an engine with a hit, and stiff suspension. I need to be convinced that is the fastest way around a moto.

Otherwise,
[LINK TO IMAGE]

Our testing/shootout, here, included lap and segment times. LitPro works.

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I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

9/13/2017 4:03 PM

I like the sound of this format. Regular updates as the shoot-out progresses.

Sounds like a good way to slightly vary yourself from the other run of the mill shootouts.

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9/13/2017 4:25 PM

I'm curious to see who comes in 2nd-6th lol

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9/13/2017 4:50 PM

Are you saying he will be biased to one particular brand??

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"Nothing happens until something moves"

9/13/2017 4:52 PM

I'm just goofing

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9/13/2017 4:53 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Until testing starts to include lap times I will take it with a grain of salt.

Just like many US series riders, tester's frequently favor an engine with a hit, and stiff suspension. I need to be convinced that is the fastest way around a moto.

Otherwise,
[LINK TO IMAGE]

TeamGreen wrote:

Our testing/shootout, here, included lap and segment times. LitPro works.

Kawasaki won....right?

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9/13/2017 4:55 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/13/2017 4:56 PM

who thinks Keefer WONT pick the Yamaha? He was the only guy who liked the 17. He worked for Yam and KTM. and guess what? those are his favorite bikes.

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9/13/2017 5:53 PM

motoarmageddon wrote:

who thinks Keefer WONT pick the Yamaha? He was the only guy who liked the 17. He worked for Yam and KTM. and guess what? those are his favorite bikes.

I think he will pick it if he truly thinks its the best bike in his opinion.

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"Who cares about what other people think"

9/13/2017 6:15 PM

motoarmageddon wrote:

who thinks Keefer WONT pick the Yamaha? He was the only guy who liked the 17. He worked for Yam and KTM. and guess what? those are his favorite bikes.

Then don't listen. Am personally looking forward to it.

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9/13/2017 6:15 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Until testing starts to include lap times I will take it with a grain of salt.

Just like many US series riders, tester's frequently favor an engine with a hit, and stiff suspension. I need to be convinced that is the fastest way around a moto.

Otherwise,
[LINK TO IMAGE]

IceMan446 wrote:

Have you listened to any of his previous bike review podcasts???

No, I just read his 450 Offroad GP test at Dirt Rider and there was no timing. Lots of opinions and virtually no setup.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/13/2017 6:18 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

Until testing starts to include lap times I will take it with a grain of salt.

Just like many US series riders, tester's frequently favor an engine with a hit, and stiff suspension. I need to be convinced that is the fastest way around a moto.

Otherwise,
[LINK TO IMAGE]

TeamGreen wrote:

Our testing/shootout, here, included lap and segment times. LitPro works.

Great news. Exactly.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/14/2017 12:23 PM

These guys should do some gag shoot outs where everyone's favorite blows everyone away and then post the real one!

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9/14/2017 12:39 PM

Johnny Depp wrote:

No, I just read his 450 Offroad GP test at Dirt Rider and there was no timing. Lots of opinions and virtually no setup.

That was for dirt rider.

I'd suggest to go listen to his podcasts on the bikes he has ridden lately. Very very informative.

Different tracks different days and multiple guys with reviews each day from track they just rode.

better than the rest IMO

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9/14/2017 12:56 PM

If Keefer can give an informative and honest comparison then great, the only shootout I put value on these days is Vital's one, even if it doesn't go the brands way that I am currently riding.

The great thing about Vital is that they recognize not every bike suits every person, what might be an amazing bike to one person doesn't mean its amazing for someone else.

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Current rides: 2020 CRF450RWE and 2019 TC300
Occasional ride for VMX: 1985 CR500RF
Adventure/Road bike: CRF1000L

9/14/2017 1:03 PM

kkawboy14 wrote:

These guys should do some gag shoot outs where everyone's favorite blows everyone away and then post the real one!

They have been doing that for years, they just forget to post the real shootout

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9/14/2017 3:19 PM

IceMan446 wrote:

Have you listened to any of his previous bike review podcasts???

Johnny Depp wrote:

No, I just read his 450 Offroad GP test at Dirt Rider and there was no timing. Lots of opinions and virtually no setup.

IceMan446 wrote:

That was for dirt rider.

I'd suggest to go listen to his podcasts on the bikes he has ridden lately. Very very informative.

Different tracks different days and multiple guys with reviews each day from track they just rode.

better than the rest IMO

For those that are interested, here's the off road comparison. Seeing how these outsell MX'ers and all come with E-start it's some tasty iron for sure. No green or yellow, but 2 red.

http://www.dirtrider.com/2017-450cc-off-road-gp-bike-comparison

Photo

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/14/2017 3:24 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2017 3:28 PM

I'll look forward to it. I like Keefer and his podcasts.

But Vital is still the number 1 place for shootouts. I have a massive problem with trusting Keefer when he rated the Yamaha number 1 in 2017, i rode the bike and i can't see how anyone that isn't 185cm+ would feel comfy on that bike. I'm not sure if his opinions on bikes relates to my thoughts and experiences of bikes after that. I can understand that he likes that platform but the fact is that the YZ is not the best bike for the average guy(yes i know, we can find exceptions) . Taller people tend to do better on it. The YZ won the Dirt rider shootout in 2017, the only mag that put the YZ as number 1.

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9/14/2017 3:41 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2017 3:49 PM

Motofinne wrote:

I'll look forward to it. I like Keefer and his podcasts.

But Vital is still the number 1 place for shootouts. I have a massive problem with trusting Keefer when he rated the Yamaha number 1 in 2017, i rode the bike and i can't see how anyone that isn't 185cm+ would feel comfy on that bike. I'm not sure if his opinions on bikes relates to my thoughts and experiences of bikes after that. I can understand that he likes that platform but the fact is that the YZ is not the best bike for the average guy(yes i know, we can find exceptions) . Taller people tend to do better on it. The YZ won the Dirt rider shootout in 2017, the only mag that put the YZ as number 1.

Weird thing is that I didn't even ride the 450 Shootout in 2017 because I had a concussion at that time. Dirt Rider tallied up scores (from several testers) and the Yamaha won without me even riding in it. Imagine that! I did write the Shootout with all the notes I had to go off of from all the testers. If you like and trust Vital's Shootout, stick with them. If you like MXA, stick with them. Or read them all. It's America, you're free to back who you choose. I mentioned in my pod to stick with the people you trust (just like in life). I think Vital does do a good job. I will rank the Yamaha first if I think it's the best in 2018, but if it's a piece of shit I'm not scared to say that as well. I don't take manufacturer advertising dollars for that reason. Cheers!

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9/14/2017 3:56 PM

Motofinne wrote:

I'll look forward to it. I like Keefer and his podcasts.

But Vital is still the number 1 place for shootouts. I have a massive problem with trusting Keefer when he rated the Yamaha number 1 in 2017, i rode the bike and i can't see how anyone that isn't 185cm+ would feel comfy on that bike. I'm not sure if his opinions on bikes relates to my thoughts and experiences of bikes after that. I can understand that he likes that platform but the fact is that the YZ is not the best bike for the average guy(yes i know, we can find exceptions) . Taller people tend to do better on it. The YZ won the Dirt rider shootout in 2017, the only mag that put the YZ as number 1.

Same website you are on said the Yamaha 250 sucked.

But every other mag said it was top 3.

Weird.

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9/14/2017 3:59 PM

Kris Keefer wrote:

Weird thing is that I didn't even ride the 450 Shootout in 2017 because I had a concussion at that time. Dirt Rider tallied up scores (from several testers) and the Yamaha won without me even riding in it. Imagine that! I did write the Shootout with all the notes I had to go off of from all the testers. If you like and trust Vital's Shootout, stick with them. If you like MXA, stick with them. Or read them all. It's America, you're free to back who you choose. I mentioned in my pod to stick with the people you trust (just like in life). I think Vital does do a good job. I will rank the Yamaha first if I think it's the best in 2018, but if it's a piece of shit I'm not scared to say that as well. I don't take manufacturer advertising dollars for that reason. Cheers!

I subscribed to your pods so thank you for the work you put in.

The podcasts are excellent and you are very detailed in set up and what the bike does and doesn't do well.

I have played that damn suspension podcast about 20 times on my way to the track just to make sure I'm adjusting everything right lol

Cant wait for your test and keep up the good work!

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9/14/2017 4:04 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2017 4:14 PM

Motofinne wrote:

I'll look forward to it. I like Keefer and his podcasts.

But Vital is still the number 1 place for shootouts. I have a massive problem with trusting Keefer when he rated the Yamaha number 1 in 2017, i rode the bike and i can't see how anyone that isn't 185cm+ would feel comfy on that bike. I'm not sure if his opinions on bikes relates to my thoughts and experiences of bikes after that. I can understand that he likes that platform but the fact is that the YZ is not the best bike for the average guy(yes i know, we can find exceptions) . Taller people tend to do better on it. The YZ won the Dirt rider shootout in 2017, the only mag that put the YZ as number 1.

IceMan446 wrote:

Same website you are on said the Yamaha 250 sucked.

But every other mag said it was top 3.

Weird.

Nope. The YZF250 got 4th or 3rd in the Vital shootout depending on how you look at the KTM and Husqvarna(if you rank them as the same bike). I wouldn't call that as a bike that sucks.

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9/14/2017 4:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2017 4:16 PM

Motofinne wrote:

I'll look forward to it. I like Keefer and his podcasts.

But Vital is still the number 1 place for shootouts. I have a massive problem with trusting Keefer when he rated the Yamaha number 1 in 2017, i rode the bike and i can't see how anyone that isn't 185cm+ would feel comfy on that bike. I'm not sure if his opinions on bikes relates to my thoughts and experiences of bikes after that. I can understand that he likes that platform but the fact is that the YZ is not the best bike for the average guy(yes i know, we can find exceptions) . Taller people tend to do better on it. The YZ won the Dirt rider shootout in 2017, the only mag that put the YZ as number 1.

Kris Keefer wrote:

Weird thing is that I didn't even ride the 450 Shootout in 2017 because I had a concussion at that time. Dirt Rider tallied up scores (from several testers) and the Yamaha won without me even riding in it. Imagine that! I did write the Shootout with all the notes I had to go off of from all the testers. If you like and trust Vital's Shootout, stick with them. If you like MXA, stick with them. Or read them all. It's America, you're free to back who you choose. I mentioned in my pod to stick with the people you trust (just like in life). I think Vital does do a good job. I will rank the Yamaha first if I think it's the best in 2018, but if it's a piece of shit I'm not scared to say that as well. I don't take manufacturer advertising dollars for that reason. Cheers!

Well that is something i didn't know, i assumed(assuming things is stupid, sorry) the you had the YZF 450 as number 1 in 2017 which is seemed crazy to me after i rode that bike! But i guess that only displays how different we all feel about the bikes?

Keep it going Kris, you're a good dude! I will still say that the YZF 450 2014-2017 sucks for me haha wink I just don't understand how it would be one of the better bikes for the average guy. I'm only 175cm tall so i'm on the shorter side but it really felt like a tank. Great suspension and strong motor but it had bad brakes and turned below average.

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9/14/2017 4:21 PM

There has always been suspicion of testers for decades going back to Super Hunky.

When race teams test different items, do you think they go by feel or lap times?

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

9/14/2017 4:26 PM

Motofinne wrote:

Nope. The YZF250 got 4th or 3rd in the Vital shootout depending on how you look at the KTM and Husqvarna(if you rank them as the same bike). I wouldn't call that as a bike that sucks.

So fourth out of six and every other mag had it rated higher?

You remember the beating ML took for the rank the bike got?

All I'm saying is this, its a one day thing with different guys. Lap times don't mean shit at ONE track. Sure one bike might work better at one track than another. Thats very common.

Multiple tracks multiple days. Seems more reliable and a better indicator of what bike is really the best.

And better yet, listen to the "living with" podcasts Keefer does after he has spent a ton of time on the bike, tested different parts, suspension and the like. And it comes from a guy who tests for the Factory, not the teams for the actual Brands, it doesn't get better than that. Thats the real break down and he is honest regardless of the color.

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9/14/2017 4:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/14/2017 4:46 PM

Anybody who doesn't rate the Yamaha last is a wierd fucker. 6'5" or smaller move along. I love all of Keefers pod casts, yes I've listened to all of them even the ktm off road bike one. But I sense a little bias sometimes. Guess that's why there are lots of testers.
I really like the living with stuff he does. these shoot outs are all way to superficial.

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