Keefer Inc's 2018 YZ450F Article

Jmicmoto13
Profile picture for user Jmicmoto13
Posts
1853
Joined
1/15/2016
Location
Troutman, NC US
Jmicmoto13
Good article from Keefer Inc. Keep it up!
https://www.keeferinctesting.com/motocross-testing/2017/6/11/first-look…
|
Markee
Profile picture for user Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1890th
Markee 6/12/2017 12:26pm
6/12/2017 12:26pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2017 1:01pm
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel.

Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with estart.
Permeance_Flux 6/12/2017 12:31pm
6/12/2017 12:31pm
Markee wrote:
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel. Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with...
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel.

Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with estart.
Imagine if the new KTM FE manages to get even lighter? Crazy to think it might happen.
Dirty Points 6/12/2017 12:33pm
6/12/2017 12:33pm
Markee wrote:
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel. Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with...
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel.

Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with estart.
Not quite that much: Yamaha specs with a full tank.

The Shop

See All »
IceMan446
Profile picture for user IceMan446
Posts
4671
Joined
1/10/2010
Location
Sacramento, CA US
IceMan446 6/12/2017 12:56pm
6/12/2017 12:56pm
Markee wrote:
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel. Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with...
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel.

Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with estart.
Dirty Points wrote:
Not quite that much: Yamaha specs with a full tank.
13-14lb dry weight difference right?
Markee
Profile picture for user Markee
Posts
3544
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA US
Fantasy
1890th
Markee 6/12/2017 1:04pm
6/12/2017 1:04pm
Markee wrote:
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel. Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with...
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel.

Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with estart.
Dirty Points wrote:
Not quite that much: Yamaha specs with a full tank.
Really? Why would they do that? You would think on a customer level comparing specs, they would keep it simple and not have to do math to figure a fair comparison.
drt410
Profile picture for user drt410
Posts
2075
Joined
3/18/2017
Location
Boston, MA US
drt410 6/12/2017 1:09pm
6/12/2017 1:09pm
regardless of anything this is a beautifullll machine.
Moto520
Profile picture for user Moto520
Posts
3387
Joined
2/4/2013
Location
Schaumburg, IL US
Moto520 6/12/2017 1:22pm
6/12/2017 1:22pm
i'm not a Yamaha guy but that bike looks awesome. You could easily and cheaply get the weight down with an exhaust, seat foam???, and a few other ways. It's key to only put as much gas in the tank as needed for your moto to save the weight. If this thing handles well....I'll bet that it winds up being a great bike. The 2014-2017 is a good bike and fits my skill level fine....but I think the refinements will push this thing over the top.

I personally ride a KTM so I don't know.........
Dirty Points 6/12/2017 1:23pm
6/12/2017 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2017 1:27pm
Markee wrote:
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel. Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with...
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel.

Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with estart.
Dirty Points wrote:
Not quite that much: Yamaha specs with a full tank.
Markee wrote:
Really? Why would they do that? You would think on a customer level comparing specs, they would keep it simple and not have to do math...
Really? Why would they do that? You would think on a customer level comparing specs, they would keep it simple and not have to do math to figure a fair comparison.
It was a response to an increasingly bullshit weight spec-war that occurred for decades in the motorcycle industry. Bikes were spec'd increasingly "dry" with zero lubrication, suspension oil, gear oil, and all sorts of other goofball tricks.

Weight specs were getting fantastical compared with what real-life owners actually experienced, so some manufacturers responded by coming up with "ready-to-race" all-filled-up specs.
Dirty Points 6/12/2017 1:41pm
6/12/2017 1:41pm
IceMan446 wrote:
13-14lb dry weight difference right?
Probably thereabouts, with the spring vs air fork difference contributing maybe a couple of those pounds.
Permeance_Flux 6/12/2017 1:44pm
6/12/2017 1:44pm
Moto520 wrote:
i'm not a Yamaha guy but that bike looks awesome. You could easily and cheaply get the weight down with an exhaust, seat foam???, and a...
i'm not a Yamaha guy but that bike looks awesome. You could easily and cheaply get the weight down with an exhaust, seat foam???, and a few other ways. It's key to only put as much gas in the tank as needed for your moto to save the weight. If this thing handles well....I'll bet that it winds up being a great bike. The 2014-2017 is a good bike and fits my skill level fine....but I think the refinements will push this thing over the top.

I personally ride a KTM so I don't know.........
Isn't think seat foam close to $200? Adding an aftermarket slip-on cost at least $300 or more as well.
c0ncEpT
Profile picture for user c0ncEpT
Posts
1269
Joined
5/13/2015
Location
Harrison Twp., MI US
c0ncEpT 6/12/2017 1:48pm
6/12/2017 1:48pm
Markee wrote:
Really? Why would they do that? You would think on a customer level comparing specs, they would keep it simple and not have to do math...
Really? Why would they do that? You would think on a customer level comparing specs, they would keep it simple and not have to do math to figure a fair comparison.
Because you ride a bike full of oil, gas, suspension fluid, ect.
endurox
Profile picture for user endurox
Posts
1884
Joined
3/22/2014
Location
Garden City, ID US
endurox 6/12/2017 1:56pm
6/12/2017 1:56pm
Magazines should weight all bikes with same amount of gas in each since weight could vary up to 3 pounds due to fuel tank size
BobPA
Profile picture for user BobPA
Posts
8027
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
PA US
BobPA 6/12/2017 1:57pm
6/12/2017 1:57pm
Markee wrote:
Really? Why would they do that? You would think on a customer level comparing specs, they would keep it simple and not have to do math...
Really? Why would they do that? You would think on a customer level comparing specs, they would keep it simple and not have to do math to figure a fair comparison.
c0ncEpT wrote:
Because you ride a bike full of oil, gas, suspension fluid, ect.
This
Moto520
Profile picture for user Moto520
Posts
3387
Joined
2/4/2013
Location
Schaumburg, IL US
Moto520 6/12/2017 2:00pm
6/12/2017 2:00pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2017 2:03pm
Moto520 wrote:
i'm not a Yamaha guy but that bike looks awesome. You could easily and cheaply get the weight down with an exhaust, seat foam???, and a...
i'm not a Yamaha guy but that bike looks awesome. You could easily and cheaply get the weight down with an exhaust, seat foam???, and a few other ways. It's key to only put as much gas in the tank as needed for your moto to save the weight. If this thing handles well....I'll bet that it winds up being a great bike. The 2014-2017 is a good bike and fits my skill level fine....but I think the refinements will push this thing over the top.

I personally ride a KTM so I don't know.........
Permeance_Flux wrote:
Isn't think seat foam close to $200? Adding an aftermarket slip-on cost at least $300 or more as well.
Yes....the Think foam is around $200 but the Guts Phantom foam is way less expensive. The exhaust.....many of us change that out right away so its almost the cost of doing business for serious racers. The stock exhausts are pretty restrictive (at least on the Honda's) so it's probably the second mod after suspensions setup. It probably shouldn't be because power is not an issue with these 450's but.....that's where many of us piss out money away!

Edit.....holy crap the Think foam is $300.00. The Guts Phantom foam is $200 but they generally have deals throughout the year. Pretty expensive.
Rct851
Profile picture for user Rct851
Posts
57
Joined
3/25/2017
Location
League City, TX US
Rct851 6/12/2017 2:00pm
6/12/2017 2:00pm
Permeance_Flux wrote:
Isn't think seat foam close to $200? Adding an aftermarket slip-on cost at least $300 or more as well.
Make yourself a strong drink of choice, throw in your favorite Moto movie, bust out your phone and BAM!!! Before you know it you ordered a bunch of cool shit. Worth it
Permeance_Flux 6/12/2017 2:17pm
6/12/2017 2:17pm
Rct851 wrote:
Make yourself a strong drink of choice, throw in your favorite Moto movie, bust out your phone and BAM!!! Before you know it you ordered a...
Make yourself a strong drink of choice, throw in your favorite Moto movie, bust out your phone and BAM!!! Before you know it you ordered a bunch of cool shit. Worth it
Haha I like your style Cool
Can't take the money with ya, when ya die
Mx286
Profile picture for user Mx286
Posts
481
Joined
9/5/2011
Location
Owensboro, KY US
Mx286 6/12/2017 2:21pm
6/12/2017 2:21pm
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is it that big of an advantage for you guys? Yes for the top pros it is. But the majority I see complaining about weight is the vet guys that don't even go that fast. They act like that saving weight allows them to throw the bike around in the corners and throw huge whips off jumps, which their not even close from doing.

Pit Row

See All »
Dirty Points 6/12/2017 2:23pm
6/12/2017 2:23pm
Mx286 wrote:
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is...
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is it that big of an advantage for you guys? Yes for the top pros it is. But the majority I see complaining about weight is the vet guys that don't even go that fast. They act like that saving weight allows them to throw the bike around in the corners and throw huge whips off jumps, which their not even close from doing.
These days?
TriRacer27
Profile picture for user TriRacer27
Posts
5449
Joined
2/7/2009
Location
Dallas, TX US
Fantasy
47th
TriRacer27 6/12/2017 2:28pm
6/12/2017 2:28pm
I love the look of the Yamahas lately.

But regarding the weight, it just seems like Yamahas lately come with a bunch of "extra" panels and pieces. Whereas the tank used to also the main part of the bike that your legs came into contact with, now you have a tank and separately big shrouds, two seats, a tank, a tank cover, etc. All of those separate pieces also require more hardware and tabs to secure. That will definitely add to the weight.

Plus Yamaha always includes extra protective bits like the heat shield on the header, the rear disk guard, rear brake caliper guard, water pump guard, etc which the KTM doesn't include. It all adds up quick, and comparing this to the KTM isn't exactly apples-to-apples.
Motofinne
Profile picture for user Motofinne
Posts
10686
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
Motofinne 6/12/2017 2:45pm
6/12/2017 2:45pm
Mx286 wrote:
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is...
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is it that big of an advantage for you guys? Yes for the top pros it is. But the majority I see complaining about weight is the vet guys that don't even go that fast. They act like that saving weight allows them to throw the bike around in the corners and throw huge whips off jumps, which their not even close from doing.
Are you trying to say that the weight of a bike doesn't matter? No offence but in that case i almost question if you ride.

I ride a 2017 sxf 450 and got to try a friends brand new(6 hours old, basically brand new)2017 yzf 450 and it felt WAY heavier than the KTM when i rode it.

race
Profile picture for user race
Posts
3447
Joined
8/26/2006
Location
CA US
race 6/12/2017 2:48pm
6/12/2017 2:48pm
Bikes should be weighed with all fluids but zero gas. That would eliminate different size gas tanks from skewing the weight.

Just wondering how long term durability compares between the KTMs and Yamis. Anyone? Yamaha may be putting more emphasis on strength and durability since they know they're not going to win the weight battle with conventional suspension.

Mx286
Profile picture for user Mx286
Posts
481
Joined
9/5/2011
Location
Owensboro, KY US
Mx286 6/12/2017 2:55pm
6/12/2017 2:55pm
Mx286 wrote:
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is...
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is it that big of an advantage for you guys? Yes for the top pros it is. But the majority I see complaining about weight is the vet guys that don't even go that fast. They act like that saving weight allows them to throw the bike around in the corners and throw huge whips off jumps, which their not even close from doing.
Motofinne wrote:
Are you trying to say that the weight of a bike doesn't matter? No offence but in that case i almost question if you ride. I...
Are you trying to say that the weight of a bike doesn't matter? No offence but in that case i almost question if you ride.

I ride a 2017 sxf 450 and got to try a friends brand new(6 hours old, basically brand new)2017 yzf 450 and it felt WAY heavier than the KTM when i rode it.

No I agree a lighter bike would be nice. Since KTM has set the bar being the lightest, everyone seems to act as if all the other brands are heavy. Your average racer is not going to go any faster on KTM or Kawi. I've ridden all brands and I just don't see where the weight advantage comes into play where it makes or breaks which bike I purchase.
Motofinne
Profile picture for user Motofinne
Posts
10686
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
Motofinne 6/12/2017 3:03pm
6/12/2017 3:03pm
Mx286 wrote:
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is...
Could someone explain why everyone has been getting a weight saving boner these days??? I mean I understand a lighter bike would be nice, but is it that big of an advantage for you guys? Yes for the top pros it is. But the majority I see complaining about weight is the vet guys that don't even go that fast. They act like that saving weight allows them to throw the bike around in the corners and throw huge whips off jumps, which their not even close from doing.
Motofinne wrote:
Are you trying to say that the weight of a bike doesn't matter? No offence but in that case i almost question if you ride. I...
Are you trying to say that the weight of a bike doesn't matter? No offence but in that case i almost question if you ride.

I ride a 2017 sxf 450 and got to try a friends brand new(6 hours old, basically brand new)2017 yzf 450 and it felt WAY heavier than the KTM when i rode it.

Mx286 wrote:
No I agree a lighter bike would be nice. Since KTM has set the bar being the lightest, everyone seems to act as if all the...
No I agree a lighter bike would be nice. Since KTM has set the bar being the lightest, everyone seems to act as if all the other brands are heavy. Your average racer is not going to go any faster on KTM or Kawi. I've ridden all brands and I just don't see where the weight advantage comes into play where it makes or breaks which bike I purchase.
I never said that the average guy is faster on a lighter bike or that it should be the decisive factor when someone buys a bike. But the weight makes a difference, even for the average rider.

Some might feel like the heavier bike(Suzuki, Yamaha) feels more stable than a KTM or Honda and vice versa. But the weight matters. I for sure didn't like the noticeably extra weight and bulkyness of the Yamaha compared to the KTM. But i loved the forks.
bsharkey
Profile picture for user bsharkey
Posts
2163
Joined
6/16/2014
Location
Marysville, WA US
bsharkey 6/12/2017 3:15pm
6/12/2017 3:15pm
Markee wrote:
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel. Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with...
The improvements sound good. I like new models that get refined with out re eventing the wheel.

Still amazing its 23-24lbs heavier than a KTM with estart.
Permeance_Flux wrote:
Imagine if the new KTM FE manages to get even lighter? Crazy to think it might happen.
I would think at some point theres going to be a minimum weight.
IceMan446
Profile picture for user IceMan446
Posts
4671
Joined
1/10/2010
Location
Sacramento, CA US
IceMan446 6/12/2017 3:18pm
6/12/2017 3:18pm
Moto520 wrote:
i'm not a Yamaha guy but that bike looks awesome. You could easily and cheaply get the weight down with an exhaust, seat foam???, and a...
i'm not a Yamaha guy but that bike looks awesome. You could easily and cheaply get the weight down with an exhaust, seat foam???, and a few other ways. It's key to only put as much gas in the tank as needed for your moto to save the weight. If this thing handles well....I'll bet that it winds up being a great bike. The 2014-2017 is a good bike and fits my skill level fine....but I think the refinements will push this thing over the top.

I personally ride a KTM so I don't know.........
Damn near 3 pounds going from a stock exhaust to an FMF system from what I remember on my 250f.

And I know that the seat on the yamaha is pretty light so I don't know how much one of the Think or Guts seats would shave off.
racer495a
Profile picture for user racer495a
Posts
206
Joined
4/25/2008
Location
CO US
racer495a 6/12/2017 3:21pm
6/12/2017 3:21pm
Essentially the new bike is the same weight if you factor the 2.4lbs in fuel weight by reducing the fuel tank size. Not bad considering they added electric start but was hoping it would be closer to KTM weight.
Jrewing
Profile picture for user Jrewing
Posts
2865
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
AU
Jrewing 6/12/2017 3:24pm
6/12/2017 3:24pm
Lightweight helps when you're 4 laps in on the last Moto of the day. I notice the 12lb off my bike.
AlexB289
Profile picture for user AlexB289
Posts
104
Joined
12/9/2016
Location
GA US
Fantasy
3263rd
AlexB289 6/12/2017 3:37pm
6/12/2017 3:37pm
I want it. Gonna wait to see the rmz. Will probably buy another KTM....
Dirty Points 6/12/2017 4:02pm
6/12/2017 4:02pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2017 4:09pm
Motofinne wrote:
I never said that the average guy is faster on a lighter bike or that it should be the decisive factor when someone buys a bike...
I never said that the average guy is faster on a lighter bike or that it should be the decisive factor when someone buys a bike. But the weight makes a difference, even for the average rider.

Some might feel like the heavier bike(Suzuki, Yamaha) feels more stable than a KTM or Honda and vice versa. But the weight matters. I for sure didn't like the noticeably extra weight and bulkyness of the Yamaha compared to the KTM. But i loved the forks.
...And does it even matter if said vet rider is or isn't faster on the lighter bike? If he has a preferable experience in any way, that's reason enough to care, regardless of the lap times.

It has has been said: "You only feel it putting it on the stand". That sounds pretty dubious, but, hell, even easier stand-putting is legitimately reason enough to care about the weight.

Post a reply to: Keefer Inc's 2018 YZ450F Article