KTM sales up 18% in 2015.

tfreeman
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tfreeman 2/4/2016 2:55pm
2/4/2016 2:55pm
Moto_Geek wrote:
If other manufacturer would just add the magic start buttons and hydraulic clutch. This feature is why I picked KTM over the other brand.
It's not that. I think its the fact that the Yz 250 is on the same frame from 9 years ago. It's the fact that ktm has been building their bikes ground up almost every 3 years. They're putting serious thought into every years model, and they will take the time to release a product that is incredibly good, they aren't settling for good enough, they want perfect. I think that's why they're sales are up, people are seeing their dedication and how much R&D they're putting into their products
Canadad
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Canadad 2/4/2016 2:56pm
2/4/2016 2:56pm
Lawrence929 wrote:
Honest question: Why buy something that came out after the KTM, like the Kawasaki 450 and is still heavier and less advanced? What is the future...
Honest question:

Why buy something that came out after the KTM, like the Kawasaki 450 and is still heavier and less advanced?

What is the future in that?

Wouldn't the Japanese need to release something more advanced to sway consumers?

I'm more excited for bikes that are in the pipeline than anything out now.

They at least still have the potential to innovate, and push the technology forwards.

Of course KTM doesn't seem to be stopping either so it seems like a moving target...
Depends what you mean by less advanced. Take a look at the Yamaha vs the KTM....the technology in those forks are way behind what's in the Yamaha, just take a look at the topics on this board regarding retrofitting KTM forks with SSS internals. Lets look at the motor....some believe the reversed cylinder on the Yamaha allows for a much more efficient intake design than the traditional setup not to mention lower centre of gravity from moving the gas tank...Motorcycles are also measured on the complete package, hence the reason the current YZ 2 smoke is so popular, the suspension, motor and chassis work so well together.....its not the component parts but the whole package.

While I like many of the features on the KTM, this notion that they are so much more technologically advanced than lets say Yamaha is just not accurate in my opinion. I believe much of what is discussed on this forum is more about personal preference than technology. My daughter much prefers the feel of the clutch on her YZ than the feel of the hydraulic clutch on the KTM...others will tell you that the hydraulic clutch is so much more technologically advanced, what does that really mean....does it work better, does it save a significant amount of weight?

As for weight, not sure there is that much difference in the bikes....I believe there is a post somewhere on actual weights not published weights and they are closer than you think. Again personal preference may play a big role here, the chassis of the bike may make it feel much lighter than it is to a rider where the lighter bike may not feel as nimble...chassis, suspension, rake, location of mass ,etc..

Having said all this I do praise KTM for raising the bar for mx bikes, with their thoughtful design and premium components, but let's not pretend that the Japanese are asleep at the wheel.

Just my 2 cents.
Sir Roostsalot 2/4/2016 4:07pm
2/4/2016 4:07pm
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of at a national level. Despite this sales are through the roof.
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usafwx 2/4/2016 4:17pm
2/4/2016 4:17pm
Canadad wrote:
Depends what you mean by less advanced. Take a look at the Yamaha vs the KTM....the technology in those forks are way behind what's in the...
Depends what you mean by less advanced. Take a look at the Yamaha vs the KTM....the technology in those forks are way behind what's in the Yamaha, just take a look at the topics on this board regarding retrofitting KTM forks with SSS internals. Lets look at the motor....some believe the reversed cylinder on the Yamaha allows for a much more efficient intake design than the traditional setup not to mention lower centre of gravity from moving the gas tank...Motorcycles are also measured on the complete package, hence the reason the current YZ 2 smoke is so popular, the suspension, motor and chassis work so well together.....its not the component parts but the whole package.

While I like many of the features on the KTM, this notion that they are so much more technologically advanced than lets say Yamaha is just not accurate in my opinion. I believe much of what is discussed on this forum is more about personal preference than technology. My daughter much prefers the feel of the clutch on her YZ than the feel of the hydraulic clutch on the KTM...others will tell you that the hydraulic clutch is so much more technologically advanced, what does that really mean....does it work better, does it save a significant amount of weight?

As for weight, not sure there is that much difference in the bikes....I believe there is a post somewhere on actual weights not published weights and they are closer than you think. Again personal preference may play a big role here, the chassis of the bike may make it feel much lighter than it is to a rider where the lighter bike may not feel as nimble...chassis, suspension, rake, location of mass ,etc..

Having said all this I do praise KTM for raising the bar for mx bikes, with their thoughtful design and premium components, but let's not pretend that the Japanese are asleep at the wheel.

Just my 2 cents.
As someone who has both a 2016 YZ125 and KTM SX150 I can tell you the attention to detail, the premium finishes and touches are far beyond that of the Yamaha. I will agree the YZ is a solid package but its dated, its essentially 10 years old, Yamaha invested in 2006 and scored a winning package and since then has done little to update besides BNG, but still a solid great bike I love. The KTM in 2006 Im sure many would agree was not a bike anyone wanted to ride. Fast forward to 2016, these bikes are winning shoot outs and selling, because KTM unlike Yamaha is investing in its products. I can tell you the fit and finish on my KTM is far better than my Yamaha, the quality of parts as well. Yes both bikes are different but you cannot argue that the KTM has the newer parts, technology and premium than the yamaha, but this is comparing the 2 strokes, its different for the 4 since yamaha updated those and have been investing in new designs/technology. But as far as the 2 stroke line up KTM is far more advanced and far better finished than the Yamaha's and this is coming from a yamaha guy, dosent mean there is anything wrong with Yamaha's smokers, I love mine, at 10 year old technology it still is amazing to ride, but the KTM is just nicer and is more advanced in the 2 stroke line up there is no arguing that, they are more than just hydraulic clutches and if you owned one you'd know. But I will caveat my YZ250F was very well finished and had some great new tech with things like the power tuner, etc, but again KTMs have the 2 stroke market.

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Canadad
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Canadad 2/4/2016 4:37pm
2/4/2016 4:37pm
usafwx wrote:
As someone who has both a 2016 YZ125 and KTM SX150 I can tell you the attention to detail, the premium finishes and touches are far...
As someone who has both a 2016 YZ125 and KTM SX150 I can tell you the attention to detail, the premium finishes and touches are far beyond that of the Yamaha. I will agree the YZ is a solid package but its dated, its essentially 10 years old, Yamaha invested in 2006 and scored a winning package and since then has done little to update besides BNG, but still a solid great bike I love. The KTM in 2006 Im sure many would agree was not a bike anyone wanted to ride. Fast forward to 2016, these bikes are winning shoot outs and selling, because KTM unlike Yamaha is investing in its products. I can tell you the fit and finish on my KTM is far better than my Yamaha, the quality of parts as well. Yes both bikes are different but you cannot argue that the KTM has the newer parts, technology and premium than the yamaha, but this is comparing the 2 strokes, its different for the 4 since yamaha updated those and have been investing in new designs/technology. But as far as the 2 stroke line up KTM is far more advanced and far better finished than the Yamaha's and this is coming from a yamaha guy, dosent mean there is anything wrong with Yamaha's smokers, I love mine, at 10 year old technology it still is amazing to ride, but the KTM is just nicer and is more advanced in the 2 stroke line up there is no arguing that, they are more than just hydraulic clutches and if you owned one you'd know. But I will caveat my YZ250F was very well finished and had some great new tech with things like the power tuner, etc, but again KTMs have the 2 stroke market.
Cool that you have both 16 YZ and KTM 2 smokes, sweet smells coming from your garage!....I took a little different approach as I did not see much sense in buying a new YZ for the reasons you raise. I bought a 2008 and sent it to JMS performance for his 150 package. I have a 42hp monster with great handling, suspension and reliability for far less than the cost of the KTM. Hands down I take a 16 KTM over the 16 YZ, when it comes to my YZ150....no thanks. It would be nice to see Yamaha invest in the 2 stroke other than BNG but we can only dream......
Tokyo_Tiddler 2/4/2016 4:46pm
2/4/2016 4:46pm
Good for KTM.. reward for giving the customers what the customerswant when Honda and the others give you want they want to give you.
usafwx
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usafwx 2/4/2016 4:49pm
2/4/2016 4:49pm Edited Date/Time 2/4/2016 4:50pm
Canadad wrote:
Cool that you have both 16 YZ and KTM 2 smokes, sweet smells coming from your garage!....I took a little different approach as I did not...
Cool that you have both 16 YZ and KTM 2 smokes, sweet smells coming from your garage!....I took a little different approach as I did not see much sense in buying a new YZ for the reasons you raise. I bought a 2008 and sent it to JMS performance for his 150 package. I have a 42hp monster with great handling, suspension and reliability for far less than the cost of the KTM. Hands down I take a 16 KTM over the 16 YZ, when it comes to my YZ150....no thanks. It would be nice to see Yamaha invest in the 2 stroke other than BNG but we can only dream......
Agreed, besides wheels, chain and plastics there's no real difference both are my first 2 strokes and the market here is so ridiculous for smokers you might as well buy new if you plan to keep for a long time, which I do. I agree though there still are enough of us that love the smokers. Unfortunately the money is in 4 strokes and the manufacturers know that, why put you in a bike you can rebuild for less and keep running longer than a thumper that costs either a) more to maintain/rebuild b) has you needing to upgrade or unload after 3-4 years and costs more new. Too much money in 4 strokes and too much visibility with the AMA ruling, you see it at your local tracks, everyone is on a 4 stroke and everyone has a new one every 2 years or so. Its unfortunate, I will admit I was one of those guys, not sure why it took me this long to realize 2 strokes are where its at (here comes the hate).
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colintrax 2/4/2016 4:52pm
2/4/2016 4:52pm
Sir Roostsalot wrote:
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of...
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of at a national level. Despite this sales are through the roof.
Where did you do your research? Ktmhate.com?
When my bike was eligible I was signed up for contingency. I don't race national events...
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racerx317 2/4/2016 5:45pm
2/4/2016 5:45pm
Sir Roostsalot wrote:
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of...
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of at a national level. Despite this sales are through the roof.
colintrax wrote:
Where did you do your research? Ktmhate.com?
When my bike was eligible I was signed up for contingency. I don't race national events...
KTM supports many local and Regional race series. Our local series paid out at every single round. My son's finishes paid for a lot of parts! Love me some KTM Contingency money!
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 2/4/2016 5:45pm
2/4/2016 5:45pm
iudi2006 wrote:
$1,131,710,400 in revenue. That's impressive no matter what company you are.
I think Yamaha is just a bit under $10B in motorcycle sales globally, for perspective.

For even crazier perspective, $1.3B is the sales volume of 12-15 decent sized Walmart stores.........
Sir Roostsalot 2/4/2016 6:28pm
2/4/2016 6:28pm
Sir Roostsalot wrote:
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of...
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of at a national level. Despite this sales are through the roof.
colintrax wrote:
Where did you do your research? Ktmhate.com?
When my bike was eligible I was signed up for contingency. I don't race national events...
Nope not a hater, I've owned 2 pumpkins and loved both of them. I'm wanting to buy another one too but was disappointed to see that on their website there is no local amateur contingency listed. I'm hoping it's an error or a delay in posting. But it's good to hear your info.
Redrcr34
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Redrcr34 2/4/2016 6:30pm
2/4/2016 6:30pm
Tokyo_Tiddler wrote:
Good for KTM.. reward for giving the customers what the customerswant when Honda and the others give you want they want to give you.
That's why I am buying a 16 FE
dmac1
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dmac1 2/4/2016 8:51pm
2/4/2016 8:51pm Edited Date/Time 2/4/2016 8:52pm
Anyone else ride off road lately? If not, watch an off road vid. The bikes are about 90% KTM. And of the others, they are mostly MX bikes being used for something they weren't designed for. Finally Yamaha has taken a step or 2 to re-enter the off-road market. Honda hasn't done anything in that direction in about 7 years I think...and the effort back then was weak. My old 2006 CRF 250X isn't far different from what they sell today. Who wants to buy a 7+ year old bike when KTM will sell me a bike that has continued to be developed and improved?

Last year, we bought a couple 2015 KTM 300 XCs. Love em! Hydro clutch, awesome brakes, super light even with estart, 2Ts.

Baffles me why they can't get the forks better, but we got em fixed in after-market. Now they are sweet!

Of course, record sales, large revenue numbers, all that sounds good, but what is the ROI they are getting? Thats a key statistic...at least for a shapshot view. And to make an apples to apples comparison, you'd hafta just look at motorcycle divisions of the Jap companies.
Nielsen277
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Nielsen277 2/4/2016 9:18pm
2/4/2016 9:18pm
Been a KTM fan since 2004. Rode/raced a few Hondas and Yamis since then and just never felt comfortable on them. Picked up a 2016 KTM 150 the other day and felt comfortable on it after 3-4 laps. Felt like I was back in 04-05. I'll never swap to a Japanese bike again. Excel rims, billet hubs, hydro clutch, Twin Air filter, Boyesen reeds, Brembo brakes... These things are fuggin sick. The little pouch with the KTM branded tools and pen makes me happy. Hate to sound like a douche, but KTM represents a luxury lifestyle brand.
colintrax
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colintrax 2/4/2016 9:30pm
2/4/2016 9:30pm
Sir Roostsalot wrote:
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of...
Been doing some research on local/regional contingency programs from the manufacturers. From what I found KTM does not have any amateur contingency with the exception of at a national level. Despite this sales are through the roof.
colintrax wrote:
Where did you do your research? Ktmhate.com?
When my bike was eligible I was signed up for contingency. I don't race national events...
Sir Roostsalot wrote:
Nope not a hater, I've owned 2 pumpkins and loved both of them. I'm wanting to buy another one too but was disappointed to see that...
Nope not a hater, I've owned 2 pumpkins and loved both of them. I'm wanting to buy another one too but was disappointed to see that on their website there is no local amateur contingency listed. I'm hoping it's an error or a delay in posting. But it's good to hear your info.
Huh, I hope it's just because they haven't updated it. If they haven't they need to get on that, it's February. It'd really suck if they killed the contingency, not that it was ever great.
And sorry for the smartassery, I just assumed you were making shit up and didn't check ktm's site... obviously I didnt.
Adolf Hipster 2/5/2016 2:06am
2/5/2016 2:06am
jasenbougher wrote:
yeah worldwide for suzuki thats exactly what I'm saying. maybe if ktm was smart they would try and make real money you know like suzuki does...
yeah worldwide for suzuki thats exactly what I'm saying. maybe if ktm was smart they would try and make real money you know like suzuki does. not pl;ay with those bikes that they only make 60 mill off
BobPA wrote:
Haha ok man. Motorcycles is their game, not outboards. They are profiting 60 times, 60 times, more than Suzuki's comparable motorcycle division....so they can't be that...
Haha ok man. Motorcycles is their game, not outboards. They are profiting 60 times, 60 times, more than Suzuki's comparable motorcycle division....so they can't be that dumb.


Aren't you a quad tard anyway? What happened to your original account?
That kid's not bright
GeorgiePorgie 2/5/2016 3:58am
2/5/2016 3:58am Edited Date/Time 2/5/2016 3:59am
Demo days. Continual Advancement of the 2 stroke. Credit is due. It's just a matter of time before all of us have a Ktm at one time or another.


The new factory edition is freakin sick. Sigh. There's no secret to KTMS success. The other manufacturers just turn a blind eye.

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nascarnate326 2/5/2016 4:25am
2/5/2016 4:25am
I think Yamaha gets it but the other three..not so much.

Honda needs to launch a new 450 and 250 at the same time that are fast. Then they need to figure out something for the crfx range. Their lineup is just sad right now.

Watch any off road video and it's all orange bikes, and for good reason. Can't nock ktm for investing in themselves and the sport.
VRR7
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VRR7 2/5/2016 6:41am
2/5/2016 6:41am
KTM have been doing excellent work in their marketing department of late.

Honda have been asleep - but they are waking up - Its nice to see KTM and Honda go at it at the Dakar and Moto 3. KTM running much stronger than Honda anticipated - KTM to join MotoGP as well this year. They sure mean business and their growth stats are great for all the good work they have done.

Honda suffers from complacency and large corporate issues- KTM more guerrilla - Bottom line as a customer it is generally much cooler for the customer to hang with KTM than Honda because KTM are much closer to the customer. Honda corporate is way removed.

Plus Honda Car sales ( never mind Jet planes etc ) Are way more profitable than their bike market. Naturally why focus where the money is not ?

However they say the new head of Honda is a pro motorcycle person so that might change.

Remember on any sunday " Yamaha motorcycle - They should stick to making piano's" - Then Japan when large killed the Euro market - So now its swinging back to the European market.

KTM's move to India production and Bajaj investment saved the Euro Dollar exchange rate problem.


--

Honda sold almost 17.8 million motorcycles worldwide in the fiscal year of 2015
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VRR7 2/5/2016 6:57am
2/5/2016 6:57am
BMW beat Mercedes-Benz in marketing when they brought the 3 series to market - In other words putting the luxury car in reach of the younger executive - Branding Customer early.

KTM 50 65 85 125 150 etc - Brilliant marketing - Brand the customer while they are young ! It is working.

Funny its what puts me off KTM - The bikes are great . I do not want to be sold anything I want to buy what I want and preferably not the common choice. The great rock and roll swindle.

Husqvarna is look good for me right now - Do not get the same foie gras feeling from Husky. Plus they marketed as upmarket KTM's - Slightly better component level on some Husky's compared to same KTM models.

Redrcr34
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Redrcr34 2/5/2016 8:04am
2/5/2016 8:04am
Nielsen277 wrote:
Been a KTM fan since 2004. Rode/raced a few Hondas and Yamis since then and just never felt comfortable on them. Picked up a 2016 KTM...
Been a KTM fan since 2004. Rode/raced a few Hondas and Yamis since then and just never felt comfortable on them. Picked up a 2016 KTM 150 the other day and felt comfortable on it after 3-4 laps. Felt like I was back in 04-05. I'll never swap to a Japanese bike again. Excel rims, billet hubs, hydro clutch, Twin Air filter, Boyesen reeds, Brembo brakes... These things are fuggin sick. The little pouch with the KTM branded tools and pen makes me happy. Hate to sound like a douche, but KTM represents a luxury lifestyle brand.
Yep
Lawrence929 2/5/2016 8:06am
2/5/2016 8:06am
Canadad wrote:
Depends what you mean by less advanced. Take a look at the Yamaha vs the KTM....the technology in those forks are way behind what's in the...
Depends what you mean by less advanced. Take a look at the Yamaha vs the KTM....the technology in those forks are way behind what's in the Yamaha, just take a look at the topics on this board regarding retrofitting KTM forks with SSS internals. Lets look at the motor....some believe the reversed cylinder on the Yamaha allows for a much more efficient intake design than the traditional setup not to mention lower centre of gravity from moving the gas tank...Motorcycles are also measured on the complete package, hence the reason the current YZ 2 smoke is so popular, the suspension, motor and chassis work so well together.....its not the component parts but the whole package.

While I like many of the features on the KTM, this notion that they are so much more technologically advanced than lets say Yamaha is just not accurate in my opinion. I believe much of what is discussed on this forum is more about personal preference than technology. My daughter much prefers the feel of the clutch on her YZ than the feel of the hydraulic clutch on the KTM...others will tell you that the hydraulic clutch is so much more technologically advanced, what does that really mean....does it work better, does it save a significant amount of weight?

As for weight, not sure there is that much difference in the bikes....I believe there is a post somewhere on actual weights not published weights and they are closer than you think. Again personal preference may play a big role here, the chassis of the bike may make it feel much lighter than it is to a rider where the lighter bike may not feel as nimble...chassis, suspension, rake, location of mass ,etc..

Having said all this I do praise KTM for raising the bar for mx bikes, with their thoughtful design and premium components, but let's not pretend that the Japanese are asleep at the wheel.

Just my 2 cents.
Good points and discussion. I appreciate your tone and aptitude.

THE Achilles heel: SSS vs. 4CS

Read the reviews and design focus on the new AER forks. Dropping 3 more pounds AND fixing the major issue all at once? What if they are even BETTER than the SSS?

As USAFWX said also the components are a step above across the platform of the bike in general, not every area but in general.

I also think that something working "well" is relative. The better the KTM gets, the worse the YZ will appear, all while remaining static.

tfreeman
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tfreeman 2/5/2016 8:17am
2/5/2016 8:17am
As a guy who is stuck between buying a ktm 250sx and yz 250, the SSS vs WP is a big deal to me. Same with ktm's rowdy power band. But overall I think I'm going for the 250 sx because it's an actually new bike, not a bike from 2008 with nice suspension.

Post a reply to: KTM sales up 18% in 2015.