KTM newb, advice on swapping suspension

gwilson
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2/8/2016 8:55am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2016 3:02pm
I have a 16 KTM 350 SXF, and may drop some $ on Ohlins or WP A kit, still waffling on what I want to do and how much cash to spend.

Question, can anyone tell me the ins and outs on what years/models are interchangeable? I read a bunch of threads on guys buying and selling aftermarket forks and shocks (while searching KTM Ohlins, etc). I am just clueless on which years and models are drop in with each other. I saw comments about axle diameter and tube diameter

The reason i ask is i may get a used 250SX, and would like to know if the front and rear susp can be swapped.

Speaking of which, when i was at the KTM ride day last summer, I was surprised at how plush the suspension was; like "this stuff is awesome". I bought the new 350 a few months later. My new 350, although I have not ridden that same track, did not seem the same. Am I dreaming? Or was the "ride day" bikes set up with extra love and care?

I'm a 49 year old B vet if that helps, 160-165 pounds or so. I finally am at a point in life where I can afford some cool stuff and am happy to pay for a sweet pillow top experience.

Thanks for your comments

Gary
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CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/8/2016 9:12am
You can fit any year KTM fork to the the 16. The only difference is that 15 and 16 models have the smaller front axel lugs and axel. If you get an older fork you just swap out the wheel spacers and use the older bigger axel. This is a photo of a 13 or 14 Cone valve on the 15.5FE

As far as shocks, only 2016 WP shock and 2016(black) WP Traxx shock will work. I'm sure the same goes for Ohlins.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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2/8/2016 9:14am
Also if you run the older forks, the fork guards have a different bolt pattern. So you use the older ones as well.
gwilson
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2/8/2016 9:26am
Thanks, if I buy a used 15 250sx, I'm good, simple swap?

How do you like the Cone Valve, that is WP right? I have only dealt with FC re valves in the past. I'm a newb in the aftermarket suspension area as well.

Thanks, Gary
KTMShane699
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2/8/2016 9:36am
Also in 2015 the lug offset changed. It created the same effect as going to a 20mm offset triple clamp (22mm is stock). Not a major difference or even one that will really have a big impact, but if you're keeping geometry the same it is a consideration.

The Shop

2/8/2016 9:42am
Or you can do the KYB swap that i am doing. Can be done cheap or expensive way.

what you need is kyb forks crf forks. or yzf and kxf can work.

1 crf front wheel bolt
1 pair 380 2001 front wheel spacer, grind small lip flat.
1 pair 250 sx 2011 front wheel spacer, right side shortened.
0.4mm lower clamp spacer or xtrig KYB bore clamps

spacer on break caliper gap and drill and thread upper mount. or break matching forks
gwilson
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2/8/2016 9:51am
Cool thanks, I don't want to re-hash old topics too much- that being said is the jury still out of which hardware is best? I'm mostly interested in fork mods.

Shane I saw your name on the posts i was reading, what are you riding for suspension? What class do you ride?

Thanks, Gary
Zaugg
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2/8/2016 10:27am
You can send your 4CS to Factory Connection. Everybody bags on the 4CS but if you get them done, you might like them and save yourself a ton of money.

Another option is sending them to WP thru your dealer.

gwilson
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2/8/2016 10:50am
Thanks Zaugg, I hear that, I don't want to be a pansy about it. I certainly did notice the forks were a bit harsh at Southwick at the end of the long practice day when the nasty chop came out to play. I have lighter spings/stock valving. Some guys here in Vital were chatting about getting re-valves done several times and finally going big time on expensive stuff, and not regretting it one bit. I would just like to bypass all the guessing and go for the kill the 1st time around.
KTMShane699
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2/8/2016 11:41am
gwilson wrote:
Cool thanks, I don't want to re-hash old topics too much- that being said is the jury still out of which hardware is best? I'm mostly...
Cool thanks, I don't want to re-hash old topics too much- that being said is the jury still out of which hardware is best? I'm mostly interested in fork mods.

Shane I saw your name on the posts i was reading, what are you riding for suspension? What class do you ride?

Thanks, Gary
Like you, I'm a New England guy. I don't race any longer, but I'm a Vet B rider. My bike currently has WP Cone Valve's that were set up by Billy at Powerband Racing. I know of other guys running the same set up. I haven't really had a chance to ride them since I broke my leg pretty bad last year on the first day riding. Those that have them though, rave about them. On my 250 I had a full Ohlins setup. It was some fantastic stuff that worked well. Plush with great bottoming resistance and very tunable. Money well spent.

I've made the case before that kit suspension is a better value than revalves due to the residual value and the fact you can take it from bike to bike. Or once you're done with it, you sell it and recover a significant portion of your investment. The downside is that you need to layout the cash up front, which is something not everyone is able to or willing to do.
gwilson
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2/8/2016 11:51am
Shane, well that solves it, sell me your 250!

So if i pop for new Ohlins fore and aft I am looking at $5500 ish? That seems to be the numbers that are showing up here.

Thanks, Gary
KTMShane699
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2/8/2016 12:38pm
gwilson wrote:
Shane, well that solves it, sell me your 250! So if i pop for new Ohlins fore and aft I am looking at $5500 ish? That...
Shane, well that solves it, sell me your 250!

So if i pop for new Ohlins fore and aft I am looking at $5500 ish? That seems to be the numbers that are showing up here.

Thanks, Gary
My 250 already got sold, and the suspension sold separately. Ultimately I ended up only losing a few hundred from what I had paid for it.

I didn't pay anywhere close to that much for my Ohlins when I got it. As I recall, I was under $4,000 for both ends. I do know prices have gone up in the last couple of years though. I'd be surprised if they jumped that much. Call Dean Burke at Burke Motorsports for your Ohlins needs. Good guy and great prices. If you miss him, leave a message. He will call back. This is a side business to his actual career, which lets him not worry quite so much about maximum profit margin. Give him a chance.
2/8/2016 1:35pm
gwilson wrote:
Shane, well that solves it, sell me your 250! So if i pop for new Ohlins fore and aft I am looking at $5500 ish? That...
Shane, well that solves it, sell me your 250!

So if i pop for new Ohlins fore and aft I am looking at $5500 ish? That seems to be the numbers that are showing up here.

Thanks, Gary
My 250 already got sold, and the suspension sold separately. Ultimately I ended up only losing a few hundred from what I had paid for it...
My 250 already got sold, and the suspension sold separately. Ultimately I ended up only losing a few hundred from what I had paid for it.

I didn't pay anywhere close to that much for my Ohlins when I got it. As I recall, I was under $4,000 for both ends. I do know prices have gone up in the last couple of years though. I'd be surprised if they jumped that much. Call Dean Burke at Burke Motorsports for your Ohlins needs. Good guy and great prices. If you miss him, leave a message. He will call back. This is a side business to his actual career, which lets him not worry quite so much about maximum profit margin. Give him a chance.
Dean Burke is fantastic to work with.
2/8/2016 3:11pm
Also in 2015 the lug offset changed. It created the same effect as going to a 20mm offset triple clamp (22mm is stock). Not a major...
Also in 2015 the lug offset changed. It created the same effect as going to a 20mm offset triple clamp (22mm is stock). Not a major difference or even one that will really have a big impact, but if you're keeping geometry the same it is a consideration.
Similar but not exactly by my understanding. Reducing the off set quickens the steering response, feel and force required but also increases trail, where reducing the axle size allows the axle centreline to be brought closer to the forks by 2mm thus increasing trail and stability without changing the offset and was said by KTM to help the bike from climbing out of ruts. The smaller axle is also said to improve feel through not being as rigid. My own experience riding the bikes says this is true, yours maybe different.

Perhaps someone with a lot more knowledge could point us all in the right direction.

More involved detail of geometry
Simple Yamaha explaination
http://bikearama.com/theory/motorcycle-rake-trail-explained/
gwilson
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2/8/2016 5:13pm
I spoke with Dean today, what a super good guy. I may pop for all new Ohlins front and rear and shelve the stock. hardware. Yes it's more bucks but overall less loss of cash when the day comes to unload.

Shane where did you get the graphics on the 250, that is very nice. I need to get my 350 jazzed up some.

KTMShane699
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2/8/2016 5:31pm
My buddy from a small company called Squid Decals did them in Westfield. He can probably rip you a copy if you wanted? His number is (413) 519-0808.
gwilson
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2/8/2016 5:40pm
Nice, Westfield is 15 or 20 minutes from me. I'll call them up.

Seems like you poured some cash into that ride, wheels too? Very nice
Crush
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2/8/2016 5:49pm
Joshy, JChambers48 on here, just got some new CVs.

JIZZFEST!
KTMShane699
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2/8/2016 6:44pm
gwilson wrote:
Nice, Westfield is 15 or 20 minutes from me. I'll call them up.

Seems like you poured some cash into that ride, wheels too? Very nice
Yeah. I did. That bike was great. Super fast. JBone Motorworks did the cylinder, head and cases. Those wheels are now on my 450 though. I'll get to ride it again one day!
TeamGreen
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2/8/2016 6:49pm
Drop a Brother a PM before you buy anything Ridonkulous.
Grizz
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2/8/2016 6:58pm Edited Date/Time 2/8/2016 6:59pm
Sell it and get a Japanese bike?

Since you never said you had to keep the KTM Wink
2/8/2016 6:59pm
Crush wrote:
Joshy, JChambers48 on here, just got some new CVs.

JIZZFEST!
Has he ridden with them yet?
2/8/2016 7:19pm
If your thinking ohlins give pro pilot in nj a call. My dad just bought forks and a shock for his 16 250f. They have the full set on sale for a really good price. I cant tell you how good they are because i only rode with them for a few laps on a muddy track. But i have cone valves and a stock shock done by powerband on my bike and i love them.
gwilson
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2/9/2016 5:34am
Thanks Danny, let me just say, I've owned a plumbing/hvac co for 28 years, I've had many thousands of business interactions with just about every category of person under the sun. Bluntly speaking I have an above average awareness on peeking into the business character of one's soul. Like every human, I have little red and little green flags flying during almost every conversation. I kept Dean on the phone for a while; I can't imagine buying Ohlins from anyone else after that interaction. Thanks for your feedback.
gwilson
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2/9/2016 10:12am
Shane, you out there? the huch valves, is that worth the extra freight? I'm thinking new RFX, just don't know if the huck is needed for a B vet like me.
Digger29
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2/9/2016 11:11am Edited Date/Time 2/9/2016 5:30pm
I had the huck's in my 14 RFX forks on my 15 300SX and while they were better with them they all of the sudden stopped using all the travel so I after a revalve of the Huck and messing with the oil height and the air gap we finally got them working really good but if it was my money I'd go with the cone valves. I barely touched a clicker all yr and they worked tremendous everywhere. The cone valve is just a better all around fork.
KTMShane699
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2/9/2016 12:33pm
I'm with Digger. Him and I actually spent a day a while back with Dean Burke doing some testing on different settings since our bikes were identical with the exception of the huck valves. While they do work and work well, the difference between them and the Ohlins bottoming cones wasn't enough to justify their expense. I think they probably are more noticeable for the woods rider who wants that ultra plush initial travel with softer suspension. For a moto guy, I'd save you money.

I wish I had more of a chance to ride my cone valves before I got hurt. I can tell you that Digger and I have very similar preferences and he put time on his cone valves and feels it's a better fork. I can also freely admit that Digger is a solid test rider who knows how a bike should feel and his setups are usually on point. I'd put value in his opinion, for what that's worth.
gwilson
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2/9/2016 12:53pm
Digger, I'm still learning the basics, I've been a moto guy since the early 80's but never bought the aftermarket suspension. The cone valve, can you explain, is that the guts of the RFX?

So if I go with new RFX, I am getting the cone valves, yes??

You may have been typing too fast, can't quite understand your comments.

Thanks for the help, I can't wait to rip things up when i get new legs on my bike.
KTMShane699
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2/9/2016 1:01pm
Ohlins calls their fork the RFX. It is NOT a cone valve fork. It's a traditional chambered spring fork with great tolerances and the coatings to make it work very well.

The cone valve utilizes a different mid valve that works differently. A common mod is to change the cone valve out for a different style mid valve. You retain the rest of the value of the cone valves and they work better. There are people who can explain the mod far better than I can. People will argue that you're getting a cone valve and then making it a non cone valve fork. But there are other benefits in the construction of the fork.

So to summarize, the RFX fork is Ohlins and the Cone Valve is WP. Different concepts internally. Both great forks.
gwilson
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2/9/2016 1:13pm
Thanks Shane, now I'm getting more confused, so does Dean wok with the WP forks///get the Cone valves?

If I go cone valve, am I getting new forks, or am i sending my forks to someone and having the cone valves installed?
Motofinne
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2/9/2016 1:36pm
gwilson, there is a great video of the WP CV forks and Trax shock on vital homepage! I recommend that you take a look at that.

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