KTM in MX2 vs 250 class in USA

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6/10/2018 1:28 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/10/2018 1:32 PM

Can someone explain to me the dominance of the KTMs in MX2 in Europe? It seems like the only way to win is to be on the KTM or maybe the Husky. Both Hunter Lawrence and Calvin Vlaanderen have mentioned in interviews that their Hondas are close but not as good as the KTMs.

But over here, we don't see the KTM domination in the 250 class. We don't see them pulling holeshot after holeshot. Going back over the past 10 years there has never been a season where I would have said the KTM was ultimately THE dominant bike, even when it has had top riders on it like Roczen or Musquin, or Osborne in 2017 on the Husky. Even Marvin Musquin made reference when he started racing in the USA in 2011 that the KTM was no longer the advantage it was in Europe.

So what is it? Riders? More development?

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

6/10/2018 1:36 PM

It's a good observation. Production rule maybe? Perhaps KTM is reaaally good at developing these no-restriction full works bikes. They do probably dump more r&d into it than any other manufacturer. No facts to back that up though

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6/10/2018 1:41 PM

Yes the production rule in the USA is the obvious answer, so then it must be that for MX2 KTM is just putting in so much more money, development and customization of the bikes than HRC or Yamaha? Because I think a lot of people in the USA paddock, if pressed, would pick the Star Yamaha as the best 250 especially in terms of motor.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

6/10/2018 1:49 PM

It’s aint the bike....

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

6/10/2018 1:51 PM

Didnt Gajser leave the MX2 class because he said they couldn't compete with the KTM250f's.

I only said this last night to my mate the KTMs just blow them away

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6/10/2018 1:54 PM

Watch the start all KTM and Husky with a Yammy around there its the bike at least a little.

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6/10/2018 1:55 PM

BobPA wrote:

It’s aint the bike....

It partially is, along with the effort from the team.

Just based on what I seen when rolling through our tech shots for Pit Bits, Rockstar Husky and Red Bull KTM are the only two teams in GPs that really give their 250s full attention... Top notch bikes and top notch riders.

Dixon's Kawi team has some power but reliability is an issue...

The F&H Kawi team and the Kemea team's bikes are still quite stock when you look at them...

114 Honda was thrown together at the last minute.

HRC Honda's 250 effort seems to be lacking power...but Honda doesn't do much 250 race development in house as Geico/FC does that themselves here in the US.

There's no Suzuki effort...

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6/10/2018 2:27 PM

As ML says, its the effort ktm and husky put in the mx2 team, which results in better bikes.

However imo their willingness to sign (pay) the best talents early on is a big factor as well. Jago Geerts is showing that talent can get you top results on a non austrian bike.

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6/10/2018 2:36 PM
Edited Date/Time: 6/10/2018 2:38 PM

I think a decent part of it is the dumbass age rule. As it stands right now KTM and Husky seem to be the only ones willing to invest a lot into their 250 effort. Realistically there isn't any reason for a manufacturer to really invest in a 250 guy unless he's a guy like Roczen, Herlings or Prado because more than likely he'll age out of the class and they won't have a spot on a 450 team for them. A good example of this would be Jordi Tixier and Christophe Charlier.

That being said there's no denying the equipment advantage KTM and Husky have created for themselves. Pretty much rocket ships on wheels.

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6/10/2018 2:42 PM

Pit Beirer

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“If you don’t crash alot, you just ain’t going fast enough” Chandler

6/10/2018 2:59 PM

KTM has always made HP but now they have guy's like Decoster and Harrison who know chassis handling so that power is getting to the ground and the riders can hold it on more. KTM is pushing, the Japanese are conservative. The timeline from development by the race teams to making it to the the production line takes longer in Japan. They also move their engineers around a lot to different departments. They'll do a stint in say car chassis or jetski hulls then they might be doing the engines. So then they have to learn that new area.

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6/10/2018 4:31 PM

hamncheeze wrote:

Can someone explain to me the dominance of the KTMs in MX2 in Europe? It seems like the only way to win is to be on the KTM or ...more

When you say "over here" do you mean the Canadian Nationals? Or are you adopting the US Nationals?

cool

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6/10/2018 11:23 PM

Underground wrote:

KTM has always made HP but now they have guy's like Decoster and Harrison who know chassis handling so that power is getting ...more

KTM has owned the 125/mx2 class since the late 90's, they put the most money in, and hire the best riders, they get the best riders as they have the best bikes, you know you are up against a better bike if you sign for another team, and they are the only true factory backed team in MX2 in Europe,

its like Pro Circuit was in the states in the early four stroke era, better bikes and getting the best riders because of it,

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6/10/2018 11:32 PM

I've always thought our 250 series is much deeper in talent because of our incredible amateur racing programs. Another thing to consider.

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6/11/2018 12:11 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/11/2018 5:51 AM

Underground wrote:

KTM has always made HP but now they have guy's like Decoster and Harrison who know chassis handling so that power is getting ...more

scott_nz wrote:

KTM has owned the 125/mx2 class since the late 90's, they put the most money in, and hire the best riders, they get the best ...more

true, the ktm lites bike has always been at the top of its class in the power department, stock or factory. even my ol 2002 ktm 125sx was the fastest 125 motor in its class that year smile now the chassis was pretty bad lol felt like riding on stilts in a way

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6/11/2018 12:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 6/11/2018 12:19 AM

Ray_MXS wrote:

It's a good observation. Production rule maybe? Perhaps KTM is reaaally good at developing these no-restriction full works ...more

This. Jonas practice bike and race bike is 2 sec a lap difference. Maybe more. I was being modest.

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6/11/2018 1:21 AM

Since 2000, KTM has won the 125/MX2 championship 13 out of a possible 18 times (72%). They would have had a ten year winstreak from 2008-2017 if it wasnt for Tim Gajsers title in 2015.

Since 2000, KTM has claimed 28 out of a possible 54 podium positions. (52%).

You can really see a pattern where KTM dominated the 125 class - then took a slight dip in dominance with the introduction of the 250f (where Yamaha was really successful for a while) for a few years before going back to dominate again.

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