KTM frame failure - 2016 sx350

Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s
Edited Date/Time 3/24/2019 1:01pm
Better check your frames. This happened today to a friend. Expert level rider, not a big dude at prob 190.
He felt it let go on the face of a jump. He didn't get hurt too badly considering - just bruised and sore.




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BR8ES
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BR8ES 6/10/2018 5:32pm
6/10/2018 5:32pm
Probably a bit po'd too
mikec265
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mikec265 6/10/2018 5:46pm
6/10/2018 5:46pm
I think I would like a bike to weigh 20 lbs more for some reason....

The Shop

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Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 6/10/2018 5:47pm
6/10/2018 5:47pm
FWIW he owns a big time painting shop that does big rigs, dozers, tractors and stuff. Blasts stuff clean, welds, powder coats and paints. So he knows metals and stress.

He bought this one new, had it apart less than a month ago after a big race weekend and saw no sign of issues. Dries it with an airgun after washing and dries that area in particular as there is some venting there for moisture control internally. But I think I see corrosion, and not enough damn material for such a critical junction. Guess I know now why KTMs are 15 lb lighter than everything else. SMH.
mikec265
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mikec265 6/10/2018 5:48pm
6/10/2018 5:48pm
just curious, what bikes are least likely to break like that?
SEEMEFIRST
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SEEMEFIRST 6/10/2018 5:48pm
6/10/2018 5:48pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2018 5:50pm
Saving a bit too much weight?

Just from the photos, the last two, it probably had been failing at the welds for a little while.
dirtmike86
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dirtmike86 6/10/2018 5:56pm
6/10/2018 5:56pm
KTM must not really be concerned even though this isnt the first time. Gunna keep a close eye on mine.
mx317
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mx317 6/10/2018 6:39pm
6/10/2018 6:39pm
They went to thicker metal on the newer ones. The 16s are the only ones I've seen break.
Ebs
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Ebs 6/10/2018 6:45pm
6/10/2018 6:45pm
Interesting look inside, some sort of inner tubing that gets plated/gusseted over.
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 6/10/2018 6:57pm
6/10/2018 6:57pm
mx317 wrote:
They went to thicker metal on the newer ones. The 16s are the only ones I've seen break.
It's will be interesting to see what KTM says. He buys a lot of bikes, and bought 2 at the same time in 16. This is obviously NOT a normal failure due to abuse or lack of maintenance. I'd say a new frame at no cost is in order. Then I'd sell the damn thing ASAP.

zookie
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zookie 6/10/2018 8:01pm
6/10/2018 8:01pm
Hammer 663s wrote:
FWIW he owns a big time painting shop that does big rigs, dozers, tractors and stuff. Blasts stuff clean, welds, powder coats and paints. So he...
FWIW he owns a big time painting shop that does big rigs, dozers, tractors and stuff. Blasts stuff clean, welds, powder coats and paints. So he knows metals and stress.

He bought this one new, had it apart less than a month ago after a big race weekend and saw no sign of issues. Dries it with an airgun after washing and dries that area in particular as there is some venting there for moisture control internally. But I think I see corrosion, and not enough damn material for such a critical junction. Guess I know now why KTMs are 15 lb lighter than everything else. SMH.
Guy owns frame paint shop so he's a metal and stress expert?

Looks like it failed in the heat affected zone at the bottom. I'd place this squarely on the gusset being too weak for 'Mericans.

Maybe I am thinking too much; want to leave the root cause analysis to folks to do true objective root cause analysis and not a guy who paints frames and other folks on the internet (like me)? Ya know...maybe engineers who are material failure experts?

woodsryder
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woodsryder 6/10/2018 8:26pm
6/10/2018 8:26pm
mx317 wrote:
They went to thicker metal on the newer ones. The 16s are the only ones I've seen break.
Hammer 663s wrote:
It's will be interesting to see what KTM says. He buys a lot of bikes, and bought 2 at the same time in 16. This is...
It's will be interesting to see what KTM says. He buys a lot of bikes, and bought 2 at the same time in 16. This is obviously NOT a normal failure due to abuse or lack of maintenance. I'd say a new frame at no cost is in order. Then I'd sell the damn thing ASAP.

No way in hell KTM gives him a frame for free what will be a 3 year old bike in about 2-3 months. KTM may sell him a frame at cost as a goodwill gesture, but I don't see it going further than that.
kdawson252
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kdawson252 6/10/2018 8:34pm
6/10/2018 8:34pm
I'm 250 lbs. I check mine every time I wash it. I am terrified of this happening. But I did case the triple at Washougal and it held up.

Pit Row

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xr70
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xr70 6/10/2018 8:41pm
6/10/2018 8:41pm
Frame is make from Coca-Cola can,
2
Gravel
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Gravel 6/10/2018 8:41pm
6/10/2018 8:41pm
Looks like rust on the break at the bottom gusset, that break has been progressing for a while, imo..
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 6/10/2018 8:43pm
6/10/2018 8:43pm
zookie wrote:
Guy owns frame paint shop so he's a metal and stress expert? Looks like it failed in the heat affected zone at the bottom. I'd place...
Guy owns frame paint shop so he's a metal and stress expert?

Looks like it failed in the heat affected zone at the bottom. I'd place this squarely on the gusset being too weak for 'Mericans.

Maybe I am thinking too much; want to leave the root cause analysis to folks to do true objective root cause analysis and not a guy who paints frames and other folks on the internet (like me)? Ya know...maybe engineers who are material failure experts?

No clown. What I’m saying is that for 30+ years this guy has worked with all kinds of steel and alu. He’s seen many many metal failures. Plus he’s meticulous with his shop and his bikes. If a guy like that doesn’t catch this before it’s catastrophic, most people have no chance.
Hammer 663s
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Hammer 663s 6/10/2018 8:46pm
6/10/2018 8:46pm
Gravel wrote:
Looks like rust on the break at the bottom gusset, that break has been progressing for a while, imo..
That’s what he said after he looked it over. The inner tube is welded with a collar to the head tube and it was obvious to him that it had been going bad for a while.
Forty
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Forty 6/10/2018 8:47pm
6/10/2018 8:47pm
That’s messed up. Glad he’s ok.

Brent
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Brent 6/10/2018 9:06pm
6/10/2018 9:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2018 9:07pm
Why is there rust inside the frame?

it also looks as if the bottom of the break is rusty also, as if it has been cracked and exposed to water.
TbonesPop
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TbonesPop 6/10/2018 9:20pm
6/10/2018 9:20pm
Gravel wrote:
Looks like rust on the break at the bottom gusset, that break has been progressing for a while, imo..
Hammer 663s wrote:
That’s what he said after he looked it over. The inner tube is welded with a collar to the head tube and it was obvious to...
That’s what he said after he looked it over. The inner tube is welded with a collar to the head tube and it was obvious to him that it had been going bad for a while.
I have a modest background in metals and corrosion. Just going based on the pictures (which isn't much), this looks like corrosion from high chloride levels. Was this bike stored near a coast by chance? When he cleaned the bike, did he use any kinds of chemical cleaners? If so, what was used?

FYI - if that is chloride based corrosion, it doesn't matter how thick the metal is, it will eventually fail.

Scary deal, glad he is ok.
bvm111
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bvm111 6/10/2018 9:44pm
6/10/2018 9:44pm
Happy to hear he is ok!
burn1986
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burn1986 6/10/2018 10:03pm
6/10/2018 10:03pm
zookie wrote:
Guy owns frame paint shop so he's a metal and stress expert? Looks like it failed in the heat affected zone at the bottom. I'd place...
Guy owns frame paint shop so he's a metal and stress expert?

Looks like it failed in the heat affected zone at the bottom. I'd place this squarely on the gusset being too weak for 'Mericans.

Maybe I am thinking too much; want to leave the root cause analysis to folks to do true objective root cause analysis and not a guy who paints frames and other folks on the internet (like me)? Ya know...maybe engineers who are material failure experts?

“I'd place this squarely on the gusset being too weak for 'Mericans.”

WTH does that mean? You’re from Connecticut, right?
milliebays
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milliebays 6/10/2018 10:12pm
6/10/2018 10:12pm
zookie wrote:
Guy owns frame paint shop so he's a metal and stress expert? Looks like it failed in the heat affected zone at the bottom. I'd place...
Guy owns frame paint shop so he's a metal and stress expert?

Looks like it failed in the heat affected zone at the bottom. I'd place this squarely on the gusset being too weak for 'Mericans.

Maybe I am thinking too much; want to leave the root cause analysis to folks to do true objective root cause analysis and not a guy who paints frames and other folks on the internet (like me)? Ya know...maybe engineers who are material failure experts?

burn1986 wrote:
“I'd place this squarely on the gusset being too weak for 'Mericans.”

WTH does that mean? You’re from Connecticut, right?
means we go hard in the paint i guess.
wideopen198 6/10/2018 10:31pm
6/10/2018 10:31pm
This doesn't surprise me one bit. Even ex-factory rider Davy pootjes had one break on him a few years ago and I have seen a lot of others too

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