KTM clutch lever pull length

Charper732
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Charper732
Edited Date/Time 3/18/2016 7:52pm
Specifically the '14 250sx. Not sure if other models suffer from the same issue, but there seems to be a large "dead spot" in the first half of the clutch pull. There is no air in the line. I took the slave cylinder off and verified that the plunger is pushing at the slightest touch of the clutch lever so the only thing I am left thinking is that the rod going from the slave cylinder to the clutch pressure plate is too short.

There is no spec in the service manual for clutch stack height or anything else for that matter besides clutch disk thickness.

Has anyone delt with this issue?

I am having thoughts of having another rod made about 5mm longer
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Charper732
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Charper732 1/17/2016 5:21pm
1/17/2016 5:21pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2016 5:22pm
im unable to pull the clutch and have it fully disengage with 2 fingers. I have to use all 4 so i can pull the lever in far enough.

I like my clutch to disengage at the very furthest point..not 3/4 the way through the stroke
BobPA
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BobPA 1/17/2016 5:35pm
1/17/2016 5:35pm
Bruce372 wrote:
Can you adjust the lever throw?
Yes, there should be a little red adjuster on the OEM lever
Charper732
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Charper732 1/17/2016 6:09pm
1/17/2016 6:09pm
this is quite a bit more in depth than a lever adjustment... the lever would be out of my reach to have it where i want the disengagement to be

The Shop

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Markopolo400
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Markopolo400 1/17/2016 6:35pm
1/17/2016 6:35pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2016 6:36pm
Something is up with yours. My 14 250SX doesn't do that.

Maybe drain the system and fill it from the bottom.
XC706
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XC706 1/17/2016 7:38pm
1/17/2016 7:38pm
Markopolo400 wrote:
Something is up with yours. My 14 250SX doesn't do that.

Maybe drain the system and fill it from the bottom.
X2. I would start by replacing the fluid.
Charper732
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Charper732 1/17/2016 7:51pm
1/17/2016 7:51pm
Yeah I've already completely flushed it, and like I said the plunger moves with the slightest bit of clutch pull so I'm confident my issue is towards the clutch side.
There are different types thickness washers of the piece that pushes on the pressure plate but I couldn't seem to do anything that made a positive effect
colintrax
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colintrax 1/17/2016 8:00pm
1/17/2016 8:00pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2016 11:24pm
You don't need to bleed it. Check the rod length, probably isn't long enough
Lucky13FIST
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Lucky13FIST 1/17/2016 9:48pm
1/17/2016 9:48pm
How did you drain/ bleed it? You cannot bleed them like you can a brake. You have to have a syringe, fill it up with the appropriate oil (DOT OR Magura blood) depending if it is a Magura or Brembo and flush it out from the slave with the cap off the reservoir.
Kevin_Reed
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Kevin_Reed 1/17/2016 11:42pm
1/17/2016 11:42pm
I put my plates back in the wrong order and mine did this same thing. And bleed it properly. I also took the adjuster apart to get extra depth on the plunger.
Charper732
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Charper732 1/18/2016 8:44am
1/18/2016 8:44am Edited Date/Time 1/18/2016 8:48am
Kevin_Reed wrote:
I put my plates back in the wrong order and mine did this same thing. And bleed it properly. I also took the adjuster apart to...
I put my plates back in the wrong order and mine did this same thing. And bleed it properly. I also took the adjuster apart to get extra depth on the plunger.
I have gotten this bike second hand. How were your clutch plates in wrong?

A buddy of mine owns a machine shop and is making me a longer rod today. #freebie
Im hoping this won't be making up for a problem else where
Nom DeGuerre
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Nom DeGuerre 1/18/2016 9:25am
1/18/2016 9:25am
If not, try the Midwest Mountain Engineering lever, ratio changes... easier pull and seems like a shorter stroke.
Charper732
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Charper732 1/18/2016 3:17pm
1/18/2016 3:17pm
Nom DeGuerre wrote:
If not, try the Midwest Mountain Engineering lever, ratio changes... easier pull and seems like a shorter stroke.
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever ratio making it easier to pull
Nom DeGuerre
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Nom DeGuerre 1/18/2016 4:58pm
1/18/2016 4:58pm
Charper732 wrote:
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever...
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever ratio making it easier to pull
top notch stuff, you will love them.
Kevin_Reed
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Kevin_Reed 1/18/2016 5:22pm
1/18/2016 5:22pm
There are 3 thicknesses of plates. The manual spells out what order is correct. I was so frustrated for several weeks until I figured it out.
MX678
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MX678 3/16/2016 9:58am
3/16/2016 9:58am
Nom DeGuerre wrote:
If not, try the Midwest Mountain Engineering lever, ratio changes... easier pull and seems like a shorter stroke.
Charper732 wrote:
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever...
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever ratio making it easier to pull
What did you end up finding out on this? I have a similar issue on my '16 450 FE. I have the lever all the way out just to suit my riding still and I hate having to reach for the lever.
bf884
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bf884 3/16/2016 12:43pm
3/16/2016 12:43pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2016 12:44pm
Pull the clutch cover off. You will see 6 8mm head bolts holding a preload ring. The ring will have either I,II,III or X,y,z. If you look on the inside of that ring it will be stepped (thick, medium, thin). Unlike the jap clutches with self tensioning springs you have to adjust this over time. Put the bolts back in preload ring in the thinnest setting. That should solve your problem.
endurox
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endurox 3/16/2016 2:54pm
3/16/2016 2:54pm
If the bleed hole in master cylinder is a bit contaminated, will cause issues. Also one can move the lever and perch in towards center of bike a bit so fingers have a bit more leverage.

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MX678
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MX678 3/16/2016 3:00pm
3/16/2016 3:00pm
bf884 wrote:
Pull the clutch cover off. You will see 6 8mm head bolts holding a preload ring. The ring will have either I,II,III or X,y,z. If you...
Pull the clutch cover off. You will see 6 8mm head bolts holding a preload ring. The ring will have either I,II,III or X,y,z. If you look on the inside of that ring it will be stepped (thick, medium, thin). Unlike the jap clutches with self tensioning springs you have to adjust this over time. Put the bolts back in preload ring in the thinnest setting. That should solve your problem.
This needs to be done on a brand new bike? i would think the adjustment would be fine from the factory.
bf884
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bf884 3/16/2016 3:53pm
3/16/2016 3:53pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2016 3:55pm
bf884 wrote:
Pull the clutch cover off. You will see 6 8mm head bolts holding a preload ring. The ring will have either I,II,III or X,y,z. If you...
Pull the clutch cover off. You will see 6 8mm head bolts holding a preload ring. The ring will have either I,II,III or X,y,z. If you look on the inside of that ring it will be stepped (thick, medium, thin). Unlike the jap clutches with self tensioning springs you have to adjust this over time. Put the bolts back in preload ring in the thinnest setting. That should solve your problem.
MX678 wrote:
This needs to be done on a brand new bike? i would think the adjustment would be fine from the factory.
Is it brand new like you just rolled it in the garage from the dealer? I adjusted mine at 20 hours. Like stated above from other posters make sure you bleed your system. Back bleeding is the best I find. If that doesn't solve it, then adjust the preload ring. The DDS clutch does wear faster than a jap clutch. In my experience adjusting the preload ring changes the throw of the push rod
MX678
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MX678 3/16/2016 4:08pm
3/16/2016 4:08pm
bf884 wrote:
Pull the clutch cover off. You will see 6 8mm head bolts holding a preload ring. The ring will have either I,II,III or X,y,z. If you...
Pull the clutch cover off. You will see 6 8mm head bolts holding a preload ring. The ring will have either I,II,III or X,y,z. If you look on the inside of that ring it will be stepped (thick, medium, thin). Unlike the jap clutches with self tensioning springs you have to adjust this over time. Put the bolts back in preload ring in the thinnest setting. That should solve your problem.
MX678 wrote:
This needs to be done on a brand new bike? i would think the adjustment would be fine from the factory.
bf884 wrote:
Is it brand new like you just rolled it in the garage from the dealer? I adjusted mine at 20 hours. Like stated above from other...
Is it brand new like you just rolled it in the garage from the dealer? I adjusted mine at 20 hours. Like stated above from other posters make sure you bleed your system. Back bleeding is the best I find. If that doesn't solve it, then adjust the preload ring. The DDS clutch does wear faster than a jap clutch. In my experience adjusting the preload ring changes the throw of the push rod
Yes brand new. I changed to memlon arc levers from the KTM hard parts and I just noticed that the clutch doesn't disengage using two fingers. Or drags that is.
bf884
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bf884 3/16/2016 5:03pm
3/16/2016 5:03pm
MX678 wrote:
This needs to be done on a brand new bike? i would think the adjustment would be fine from the factory.
bf884 wrote:
Is it brand new like you just rolled it in the garage from the dealer? I adjusted mine at 20 hours. Like stated above from other...
Is it brand new like you just rolled it in the garage from the dealer? I adjusted mine at 20 hours. Like stated above from other posters make sure you bleed your system. Back bleeding is the best I find. If that doesn't solve it, then adjust the preload ring. The DDS clutch does wear faster than a jap clutch. In my experience adjusting the preload ring changes the throw of the push rod
MX678 wrote:
Yes brand new. I changed to memlon arc levers from the KTM hard parts and I just noticed that the clutch doesn't disengage using two fingers...
Yes brand new. I changed to memlon arc levers from the KTM hard parts and I just noticed that the clutch doesn't disengage using two fingers. Or drags that is.
Could be the lever it self. I have never had good luck with after market levers on my Ktm. That could be just me though. I've tried, sunline and Midwest engineering easy pull. the smoothest I found has been stock. Try going back to stock and see if it still does it.
Charper732
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Charper732 3/16/2016 5:22pm
3/16/2016 5:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2016 5:23pm
Nom DeGuerre wrote:
If not, try the Midwest Mountain Engineering lever, ratio changes... easier pull and seems like a shorter stroke.
Charper732 wrote:
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever...
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever ratio making it easier to pull
MX678 wrote:
What did you end up finding out on this? I have a similar issue on my '16 450 FE. I have the lever all the way...
What did you end up finding out on this? I have a similar issue on my '16 450 FE. I have the lever all the way out just to suit my riding still and I hate having to reach for the lever.
I have seriously tried so much shit it's ridiculous. I rebuilt the master cylinder(which helped a little bit). Rebuilt the slave cylinder. Made a custom push rod a few mm longer(which ended not being used because it put too much tension on the pressure plate.

Changing to the X from the Y setting had no effect for me. The clutch doesn't drag when in neutral, my rear does not turn when the bike is running on the stand. The lever pull is still really far though. Other than running a third 1mm steel to reduce the clutch height..which would be pretty much the same thing as running the X setting...I'm out of ideas.

And yes, as far as lever pull length goes, the stock lever seems to be the best.
I've come to terms with the full hand clutch grab when brake tapping in the air...I'm able to get away with the two finger grab when shifting....so it works out i guess.
MX678
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MX678 3/16/2016 5:27pm
3/16/2016 5:27pm
Charper732 wrote:
I have seriously tried so much shit it's ridiculous. I rebuilt the master cylinder(which helped a little bit). Rebuilt the slave cylinder. Made a custom push...
I have seriously tried so much shit it's ridiculous. I rebuilt the master cylinder(which helped a little bit). Rebuilt the slave cylinder. Made a custom push rod a few mm longer(which ended not being used because it put too much tension on the pressure plate.

Changing to the X from the Y setting had no effect for me. The clutch doesn't drag when in neutral, my rear does not turn when the bike is running on the stand. The lever pull is still really far though. Other than running a third 1mm steel to reduce the clutch height..which would be pretty much the same thing as running the X setting...I'm out of ideas.

And yes, as far as lever pull length goes, the stock lever seems to be the best.
I've come to terms with the full hand clutch grab when brake tapping in the air...I'm able to get away with the two finger grab when shifting....so it works out i guess.
Did you have any issues with two fingers on the start? I haven't even rode the bike so it may be fine. Just seems as soon as i even begin to release the clutch its moving. It just seems difficult to get your timing down on clutch release. But then again, Im used to a cable clutch and may just need some seat time.
bf884
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bf884 3/16/2016 5:33pm
3/16/2016 5:33pm
Charper732 wrote:
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever...
I saw those when I was googling this problem. I plan on getting one of those regardless if short pull or not because of the lever ratio making it easier to pull
MX678 wrote:
What did you end up finding out on this? I have a similar issue on my '16 450 FE. I have the lever all the way...
What did you end up finding out on this? I have a similar issue on my '16 450 FE. I have the lever all the way out just to suit my riding still and I hate having to reach for the lever.
Charper732 wrote:
I have seriously tried so much shit it's ridiculous. I rebuilt the master cylinder(which helped a little bit). Rebuilt the slave cylinder. Made a custom push...
I have seriously tried so much shit it's ridiculous. I rebuilt the master cylinder(which helped a little bit). Rebuilt the slave cylinder. Made a custom push rod a few mm longer(which ended not being used because it put too much tension on the pressure plate.

Changing to the X from the Y setting had no effect for me. The clutch doesn't drag when in neutral, my rear does not turn when the bike is running on the stand. The lever pull is still really far though. Other than running a third 1mm steel to reduce the clutch height..which would be pretty much the same thing as running the X setting...I'm out of ideas.

And yes, as far as lever pull length goes, the stock lever seems to be the best.
I've come to terms with the full hand clutch grab when brake tapping in the air...I'm able to get away with the two finger grab when shifting....so it works out i guess.
Not sure if you stated it before but is your clutch stack in the correct order?
bf884
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bf884 3/16/2016 5:37pm
3/16/2016 5:37pm
Also those bikes have a 280 Belleville washer. Before they came with a 250 which is a way easier clutch pull. You go through clutches faster but with the 280 I had in my I couldn't pull it in by the end of the day. I wasn't tired just didn't have the strength cause it was so hard. I went to a 250 washer and my problem went Away
Charper732
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Charper732 3/16/2016 5:52pm
3/16/2016 5:52pm
bf884 wrote:
Also those bikes have a 280 Belleville washer. Before they came with a 250 which is a way easier clutch pull. You go through clutches faster...
Also those bikes have a 280 Belleville washer. Before they came with a 250 which is a way easier clutch pull. You go through clutches faster but with the 280 I had in my I couldn't pull it in by the end of the day. I wasn't tired just didn't have the strength cause it was so hard. I went to a 250 washer and my problem went Away
What year did they switch, i thought stock was 250? And yes, my clutch plates are in the correct order.
copsey
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copsey 3/16/2016 6:54pm
3/16/2016 6:54pm
Is there a gasket behind the slave? If there is remove it and leave the o-ring, the "gasket" is used as a spacer.
bf884
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bf884 3/17/2016 4:28am
3/17/2016 4:28am
bf884 wrote:
Also those bikes have a 280 Belleville washer. Before they came with a 250 which is a way easier clutch pull. You go through clutches faster...
Also those bikes have a 280 Belleville washer. Before they came with a 250 which is a way easier clutch pull. You go through clutches faster but with the 280 I had in my I couldn't pull it in by the end of the day. I wasn't tired just didn't have the strength cause it was so hard. I went to a 250 washer and my problem went Away
Charper732 wrote:
What year did they switch, i thought stock was 250? And yes, my clutch plates are in the correct order.
I think it was 2014.
Charper732
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Charper732 3/18/2016 7:52pm
3/18/2016 7:52pm
mine is a '14
and no there is no gasket behind the slave cylinder.

My clutch starts to grab maybe 1/2" from the bar. I'm able to do shifts with 2 fingers but if i try to 2 finger the clutch and brake tap it'll stall sometimes

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