KTM Direct Injection 2 stroke

Orange724
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Orange724 6/10/2011 11:49am
6/10/2011 11:49am
Probably the case. Mine is jetted for close to sea level (where most of the tracks are at), and it's pretty crisp there.

The trails I ride at are more around 1500' though. That difference in riding elevation is more of a reason to get the DI.
unknownmxr 6/10/2011 12:09pm
6/10/2011 12:09pm
The nasty secret of fuel injection is the high cost fuel pump. FI runs at a high pressure and , same as a four wheeler, the pumps are only good for a couple years. Replacement around $1000. DI is even worse. Line pressures of 2000 psi. I heard the new GM diesels have an electric pump> $6000 replacement cost.
miedosoracing1 6/10/2011 12:30pm
6/10/2011 12:30pm
unknownmxr wrote:
The nasty secret of fuel injection is the high cost fuel pump. FI runs at a high pressure and , same as a four wheeler, the...
The nasty secret of fuel injection is the high cost fuel pump. FI runs at a high pressure and , same as a four wheeler, the pumps are only good for a couple years. Replacement around $1000. DI is even worse. Line pressures of 2000 psi. I heard the new GM diesels have an electric pump> $6000 replacement cost.
Something that would be nice. Fuel Injected, w/ abiliy to swap with carb if so desired. Passes EPA, but people can swap out if not in Cali
ns503
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ns503 6/10/2011 12:36pm
6/10/2011 12:36pm
unknownmxr wrote:
The nasty secret of fuel injection is the high cost fuel pump. FI runs at a high pressure and , same as a four wheeler, the...
The nasty secret of fuel injection is the high cost fuel pump. FI runs at a high pressure and , same as a four wheeler, the pumps are only good for a couple years. Replacement around $1000. DI is even worse. Line pressures of 2000 psi. I heard the new GM diesels have an electric pump> $6000 replacement cost.
ATVs are not Direct Injected.

BRP has had DI 2 Strokes in watercraft & snowmobiles for the last few years. I know a few people with DI sleds here, have heard of not one issue with fuel systems.

The Shop

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crashnburn11 6/10/2011 1:17pm
6/10/2011 1:17pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Both of the things you posted have to do with the same reason. Your bike is jetted wrong. A well jetted 2 stroke can idle fine...
Both of the things you posted have to do with the same reason. Your bike is jetted wrong. A well jetted 2 stroke can idle fine. If you are fouling plugs, that is a sign. I NEVER foul plugs. Not bragging or anything, it's just the fact that if jetted correctly, it will not foul. It would do the same thing on a 4 stroke if jetted wrong.
x2, can't remember ever fouling a plug on my 250, and def don't have any idling issues
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Tiki 6/10/2011 2:04pm
6/10/2011 2:04pm
ando wrote:
Quote from Rob Twyerould, technical guy for KTM Australia, taken from the July issue of Australasian Dirt Bike: "There is definitely a well-developed prototype at KTM...
Quote from Rob Twyerould, technical guy for KTM Australia, taken from the July issue of Australasian Dirt Bike:

"There is definitely a well-developed prototype at KTM, but they are waiting for the next round of emission restrictions to be announced before pushing forward.

"KTM has developed and patented it's own mechanical fuel pump system and a very compact oil delivery system to the bottom-end bearings, and the whole bike works really well.

"While there are some reasonable performance improvements, the real advantages of the system are in emissions and fuel economy. So the motivation for bringing to market will only come with the new emission targets."
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I have to wait til then, Bummer I will probably be riding something else. If we are talking 2013 - well Hello There! I imagine a Direct Injected 125CC bike would be quite the little power monster. Be interesting to see the torque on that.
ando
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ando 6/10/2011 3:53pm
6/10/2011 3:53pm
ando wrote:
Quote from Rob Twyerould, technical guy for KTM Australia, taken from the July issue of Australasian Dirt Bike: "There is definitely a well-developed prototype at KTM...
Quote from Rob Twyerould, technical guy for KTM Australia, taken from the July issue of Australasian Dirt Bike:

"There is definitely a well-developed prototype at KTM, but they are waiting for the next round of emission restrictions to be announced before pushing forward.

"KTM has developed and patented it's own mechanical fuel pump system and a very compact oil delivery system to the bottom-end bearings, and the whole bike works really well.

"While there are some reasonable performance improvements, the real advantages of the system are in emissions and fuel economy. So the motivation for bringing to market will only come with the new emission targets."
Tiki wrote:
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I...
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I have to wait til then, Bummer I will probably be riding something else. If we are talking 2013 - well Hello There! I imagine a Direct Injected 125CC bike would be quite the little power monster. Be interesting to see the torque on that.
Australian vehicles for road use have to comply with local standards, which are aligned with Euro emission standards (currently Euro 4). While I'm not familiar with the legislation, I'm going to say that off-road motorbikes are currently exempt, because all current enduro 2 stroke bikes available in Australia, meaning all KTM, Gas Gas, TM, Husky, Husaberg etc, are fully legal for road use.

However, I think the standards being referred to in the article are US standards, I'd have to check but I think elsewhere in the article it talks about new standards due out for 2012.
ODB
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ODB 6/10/2011 4:08pm
6/10/2011 4:08pm
KTM and ROTAX [skidoo owned],have been working closely for years and i have read the 250 ktm 4 stroke was built by rotax ..........this DI 2 stroke has been tested for 3 years now and anyone who knows the skidoo DI technology knows its awesome ...........power gain ,some say no ,how about imagining that your bike is always jetted properly for the hills, the temp, the mud the humidity ........all on the same day .............easy smeasy,beeen holding off onthe new 150 for this DI ...............FREES UP AN HOUR A DAY EASILY ON RACEDAY FOR ME
RocketLab
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RocketLab 6/10/2011 4:28pm
6/10/2011 4:28pm
Racer92 wrote:
I have a Mercury OptiMax 90hp direct injection 2-smoke on my bay-boat and those things are incredible. Clean burn, incredible mileage, fires up first time, every...
I have a Mercury OptiMax 90hp direct injection 2-smoke on my bay-boat and those things are incredible. Clean burn, incredible mileage, fires up first time, every time.
I would have to see that to believe it. When are we going fishing?
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ky_savage 6/10/2011 4:28pm
6/10/2011 4:28pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
I bet this guy had to load up really quick because those 4 stroke guys were probably looking for him after this race. lol. Love how he was taunting them. hahaha
Tiki
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Tiki 6/10/2011 6:07pm
6/10/2011 6:07pm
ando wrote:
Quote from Rob Twyerould, technical guy for KTM Australia, taken from the July issue of Australasian Dirt Bike: "There is definitely a well-developed prototype at KTM...
Quote from Rob Twyerould, technical guy for KTM Australia, taken from the July issue of Australasian Dirt Bike:

"There is definitely a well-developed prototype at KTM, but they are waiting for the next round of emission restrictions to be announced before pushing forward.

"KTM has developed and patented it's own mechanical fuel pump system and a very compact oil delivery system to the bottom-end bearings, and the whole bike works really well.

"While there are some reasonable performance improvements, the real advantages of the system are in emissions and fuel economy. So the motivation for bringing to market will only come with the new emission targets."
Tiki wrote:
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I...
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I have to wait til then, Bummer I will probably be riding something else. If we are talking 2013 - well Hello There! I imagine a Direct Injected 125CC bike would be quite the little power monster. Be interesting to see the torque on that.
ando wrote:
Australian vehicles for road use have to comply with local standards, which are aligned with Euro emission standards (currently Euro 4). While I'm not familiar with...
Australian vehicles for road use have to comply with local standards, which are aligned with Euro emission standards (currently Euro 4). While I'm not familiar with the legislation, I'm going to say that off-road motorbikes are currently exempt, because all current enduro 2 stroke bikes available in Australia, meaning all KTM, Gas Gas, TM, Husky, Husaberg etc, are fully legal for road use.

However, I think the standards being referred to in the article are US standards, I'd have to check but I think elsewhere in the article it talks about new standards due out for 2012.
I can only hope that because the 300 EXC hasn't been released yet for '12 that it may just get the direct injection. Those new KTM's are PURTY!
CamP
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CamP 6/10/2011 6:09pm
6/10/2011 6:09pm
When was the last time any of you guys trumpeting F.I. bought a brand new bike?
ando
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ando 6/10/2011 6:29pm
6/10/2011 6:29pm
Tiki wrote:
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I...
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I have to wait til then, Bummer I will probably be riding something else. If we are talking 2013 - well Hello There! I imagine a Direct Injected 125CC bike would be quite the little power monster. Be interesting to see the torque on that.
ando wrote:
Australian vehicles for road use have to comply with local standards, which are aligned with Euro emission standards (currently Euro 4). While I'm not familiar with...
Australian vehicles for road use have to comply with local standards, which are aligned with Euro emission standards (currently Euro 4). While I'm not familiar with the legislation, I'm going to say that off-road motorbikes are currently exempt, because all current enduro 2 stroke bikes available in Australia, meaning all KTM, Gas Gas, TM, Husky, Husaberg etc, are fully legal for road use.

However, I think the standards being referred to in the article are US standards, I'd have to check but I think elsewhere in the article it talks about new standards due out for 2012.
Tiki wrote:
I can only hope that because the 300 EXC hasn't been released yet for '12 that it may just get the direct injection. Those new KTM's...
I can only hope that because the 300 EXC hasn't been released yet for '12 that it may just get the direct injection. Those new KTM's are PURTY!
No luck there, the 300EXC has already been released in Europe, no DI.
Faceaz
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Faceaz 6/10/2011 6:36pm
6/10/2011 6:36pm
Matt Fisher wrote:
It would still be about a grand less than a new valve muncher. I understand your point CamP, and you are correct about it increasing the...
It would still be about a grand less than a new valve muncher.

I understand your point CamP, and you are correct about it increasing the complexity and potentially the cost. The same can be said about linkages, cartridge forks, bladder shocks, liquid cooling, power valves, and even disk brakes.



I have to agree with Suns_PSD about what I'd like to see made- that sounds like one heck of a great bike.
CamP wrote:
"I understand your point CamP, and you are correct about it increasing the complexity and potentially the cost. The same can be said about linkages, cartridge...
"I understand your point CamP, and you are correct about it increasing the complexity and potentially the cost. The same can be said about linkages, cartridge forks, bladder shocks, liquid cooling, power valves, and even disk brakes."

The manufacturers sold less than 50k units of competition dirt bikes last year. That's down about 950,000 units from 30 years ago. Between the economy and the expensive technological bike developments, this sport is on it's death bed. Making the bikes more expensive is the last thing this sport needs.
You got any link to statistics on that. Not saying it's incorrect, but selling close to 1 million units a year sounds like allot, the 50k number is understandable.
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Mod Killer 6/10/2011 6:37pm
6/10/2011 6:37pm
CamP wrote:
When was the last time any of you guys trumpeting F.I. bought a brand new bike?
i have a 2010. i really like F.I.
umagumadog
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umagumadog 6/10/2011 7:04pm
6/10/2011 7:04pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
ky_savage wrote:
I bet this guy had to load up really quick because those 4 stroke guys were probably looking for him after this race. lol. Love how...
I bet this guy had to load up really quick because those 4 stroke guys were probably looking for him after this race. lol. Love how he was taunting them. hahaha
Nah they were to tired from pushing to go after anybody. Evil
CamP
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CamP 6/10/2011 8:26pm
6/10/2011 8:26pm
Faceaz wrote:
You got any link to statistics on that. Not saying it's incorrect, but selling close to 1 million units a year sounds like allot, the 50k...
You got any link to statistics on that. Not saying it's incorrect, but selling close to 1 million units a year sounds like allot, the 50k number is understandable.
Believe it, I've seen the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) publications on the historical sales data and the dirt bike sales peak was 1979 with 1 million units. That's 20 times the units sold today even though the US population has grown 36% since 1980.

Here's another way to look at it. In 1980, one in every 226 people in the US had a new dirt bike. Today one in every 6,160 people in the US owns a new dirt bike. That's a sad statistic and if the manufacturers don't put a lid on the cost of the bikes, it will just get worse.

Pit Row

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observer
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observer 6/10/2011 8:52pm
6/10/2011 8:52pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
ky_savage wrote:
I bet this guy had to load up really quick because those 4 stroke guys were probably looking for him after this race. lol. Love how...
I bet this guy had to load up really quick because those 4 stroke guys were probably looking for him after this race. lol. Love how he was taunting them. hahaha
umagumadog wrote:
Nah they were to tired from pushing to go after anybody. Evil
No kiddin...had an 06 300xc, HAD to have a 4t, went with new 09 400xcw, couldn't wait toget off that porker.
Now ride 2010 300xcw, nice offroad scoot.
rustytrombone 6/10/2011 9:02pm
6/10/2011 9:02pm
CamP wrote:
Because it's expensive and unnecessary. The beauty of the current 2-strokes is that they are simple and inexpensive. KTM engineers say that fuel injection is not...
Because it's expensive and unnecessary. The beauty of the current 2-strokes is that they are simple and inexpensive. KTM engineers say that fuel injection is not a performance upgrade. It's an lower emissions upgrade. Why would you want to add cost to the bike for something that doesn't actually improve performance?
I agree for the most part, but all bikes will increase in price, and the 2 stroke will still be less expensive than the thumper.
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Faceaz 6/10/2011 9:04pm
6/10/2011 9:04pm
Faceaz wrote:
You got any link to statistics on that. Not saying it's incorrect, but selling close to 1 million units a year sounds like allot, the 50k...
You got any link to statistics on that. Not saying it's incorrect, but selling close to 1 million units a year sounds like allot, the 50k number is understandable.
CamP wrote:
Believe it, I've seen the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) publications on the historical sales data and the dirt bike sales peak was 1979 with 1 million...
Believe it, I've seen the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) publications on the historical sales data and the dirt bike sales peak was 1979 with 1 million units. That's 20 times the units sold today even though the US population has grown 36% since 1980.

Here's another way to look at it. In 1980, one in every 226 people in the US had a new dirt bike. Today one in every 6,160 people in the US owns a new dirt bike. That's a sad statistic and if the manufacturers don't put a lid on the cost of the bikes, it will just get worse.
So... no link?

Again, not saying it's incorrect. But, I'm guessing the information isn't apples to apples.
rustytrombone 6/10/2011 9:09pm
6/10/2011 9:09pm
Faceaz wrote:
So... no link?

Again, not saying it's incorrect. But, I'm guessing the information isn't apples to apples.
I tried looking @ the MIC site, but you gotta be a member to see any specs.
CamP
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CamP 6/10/2011 9:24pm
6/10/2011 9:24pm
Faceaz wrote:
So... no link?

Again, not saying it's incorrect. But, I'm guessing the information isn't apples to apples.
Fill out this form, then send it in with $250 and you can see the data for yourself. http://www.mic.org/members/membership/rua.pdf
steedmills 6/11/2011 12:19am
6/11/2011 12:19am Edited Date/Time 5/3/2012 6:46am
Tiki wrote:
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I...
Are the emissions in Australia akin to America? California has new standards coming out in 2012, I think 2015 is the next after that. If I have to wait til then, Bummer I will probably be riding something else. If we are talking 2013 - well Hello There! I imagine a Direct Injected 125CC bike would be quite the little power monster. Be interesting to see the torque on that.
ando wrote:
Australian vehicles for road use have to comply with local standards, which are aligned with Euro emission standards (currently Euro 4). While I'm not familiar with...
Australian vehicles for road use have to comply with local standards, which are aligned with Euro emission standards (currently Euro 4). While I'm not familiar with the legislation, I'm going to say that off-road motorbikes are currently exempt, because all current enduro 2 stroke bikes available in Australia, meaning all KTM, Gas Gas, TM, Husky, Husaberg etc, are fully legal for road use.

However, I think the standards being referred to in the article are US standards, I'd have to check but I think elsewhere in the article it talks about new standards due out for 2012.
Tiki wrote:
I can only hope that because the 300 EXC hasn't been released yet for '12 that it may just get the direct injection. Those new KTM's...
I can only hope that because the 300 EXC hasn't been released yet for '12 that it may just get the direct injection. Those new KTM's are PURTY!
.
dboivin
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dboivin 6/11/2011 3:19am
6/11/2011 3:19am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Both of the things you posted have to do with the same reason. Your bike is jetted wrong. A well jetted 2 stroke can idle fine...
Both of the things you posted have to do with the same reason. Your bike is jetted wrong. A well jetted 2 stroke can idle fine. If you are fouling plugs, that is a sign. I NEVER foul plugs. Not bragging or anything, it's just the fact that if jetted correctly, it will not foul. It would do the same thing on a 4 stroke if jetted wrong.
crashnburn11 wrote:
x2, can't remember ever fouling a plug on my 250, and def don't have any idling issues
still think e-tech is way to go...or similar technology. for those that think it adds complication to the motor hasn't seen it...hasn't witnessed one operating. They burn minimal oil....damn near 0 emission. You won't call it a 2smoker any more. You can park an etech in your living room and let it idle there all day and not see/smell/fog yourself out. thats unheard of in 2 strokes. you would have supercross full of 2 strokes and no blue haze Smile If BRP was to get into the market, they would be instant hits. they are starting to cut into the 4wheel market again...mainly because of these motors.
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Ing 6/11/2011 3:56am
6/11/2011 3:56am
CamP wrote:
Believe it, I've seen the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) publications on the historical sales data and the dirt bike sales peak was 1979 with 1 million...
Believe it, I've seen the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) publications on the historical sales data and the dirt bike sales peak was 1979 with 1 million units. That's 20 times the units sold today even though the US population has grown 36% since 1980.

Here's another way to look at it. In 1980, one in every 226 people in the US had a new dirt bike. Today one in every 6,160 people in the US owns a new dirt bike. That's a sad statistic and if the manufacturers don't put a lid on the cost of the bikes, it will just get worse.
I'd hold out for 30cent gasoline also.
SL91
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SL91 6/11/2011 5:14am
6/11/2011 5:14am
RMT wrote:
The new 2013 Can Am MX250 will have a 250cc E-Tec Rotax engine. It will be the lightest bike made and have more power than a...
The new 2013 Can Am MX250 will have a 250cc E-Tec Rotax engine. It will be the lightest bike made and have more power than a 450cc 4 stroke. It will have better fuel economy, therefore reducing the size of the tank and associated weight of the fuel. It will burn cleaner than any 2 stroke ever made. It will also be very quiet. It will have a completely different frame based off of current aircraft technology. All this, for $8999. Yes, it will be expensive, but Can -Am's like BMW and Mercedes, are not for everyone.
queen of spodes wrote:
link please
RMT wrote:
I have inside info and cant post a link or reveal my source. lol. It was a joke, but if BRP wanted to get back into...
I have inside info and cant post a link or reveal my source. lol. It was a joke, but if BRP wanted to get back into MX bikes, that is what it would be like.
Haha! I raced Canned-Hams in the late 70's/early 80's. They were fast, but they handled like shit, weighed a ton, were very wide, and in 1979 I finished a total of 9 motos. The other 13 dnf'ed. Some of the hi-light dnf's: both gas tank mounts broke when i landed from a jumped and the tank popped right off; I sheared the key off the primary shaft twice (who the hell uses a key and key-way on a gear that comes under such stress-every other manufacturer is smart enough to use splined gears); the pipe cracked; a swingarm bearing shredded; the frame cracked under the seat... you get the idea! Oh yeah, did I say they were ugly?

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