Just watched moto spy from last week..

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2/21/2020 3:07 AM

Jesus Christ the tld ktm team seems toxic as fuck. What could help turn that team around? New manager?

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2/21/2020 3:21 AM

Haven’t seen it - how so?

Keep in mind: their rider crashed and is currently paralyzed, and their former rider mopped everyone on his new ride and gushed about how great everything is now.......

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Washed up moto and enduro weekend warrior.

2/21/2020 4:08 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/21/2020 4:09 AM

MxKing809 wrote:

Haven’t seen it - how so?

Keep in mind: their rider crashed and is currently paralyzed, and their former rider mopped ...more

Go watch it. Tld is about halfway thru. The team manager just seems like a straight up douche. Telling hartraft mechanic “if he’s not at a 1:08 or below we’re yanking him off the track. Just bad vibes. Also the new episode was from earlier in the season.

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2/21/2020 4:22 AM

Funny, I kind of sided with Keefe. Hartranft didn’t have his head in the game and Keefe said he was worried he’d get hurt.

Also, they pay these guys to be on it, I don’t know if it would be too different anywhere else.

Later it shows him being nice to Hartranft and saying to get your head clear. Even Tickle (coach?) was agreeing.

Great show and insight though! And these guys know they’re mic’d up so prob adds a bit of flair too.

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2/21/2020 4:27 AM

MxKing809 wrote:

Haven’t seen it - how so?

Keep in mind: their rider crashed and is currently paralyzed, and their former rider mopped ...more

logan_140 wrote:

Go watch it. Tld is about halfway thru. The team manager just seems like a straight up douche. Telling hartraft mechanic “if ...more

Pauses for thought on this- we don't know the full story.

If he can't get a lap time below 'x' then there must be a reason. Get him in, work it out, hope to go faster. Theres no point burning gas for the sake of it, that achieves nothing apart from a physical workout.

The rider will be just as frustrated and wants the problem worked out as well.

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The above may be fact or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting. I am not sure, you have no chance.

2/21/2020 4:37 AM

TK probably doesn't hold a candle to some of the moto dads out there. I'm sure the Jeannie and Big James camps were brutal back in the day.

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2/21/2020 4:39 AM

I would say most of the top guys have been pushed like this. It’s no secret how Carmichael’s mom was. Villos dad, stew. The tough love is not pretty to watch and I personally don’t respond well to that kind of instruction but it works. Time and time again. I have kids now and struggle with this problem. How hard do you push? My kids are going to ride for fun and have a normal life.

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2/21/2020 4:42 AM

JohnnyD13 wrote:

I would say most of the top guys have been pushed like this. It’s no secret how Carmichael’s mom was. Villos dad, stew. The ...more

I get that he’s trying to push him, but he just comes off as a straight up douche. Maybe it’ll work who knows. Just completely different vibes then some other teams

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2/21/2020 6:28 AM

I agree with the OP on this one. There's ways to go about it and acting like isn't one of them. No wonder there has been a mass exodus from that team.

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2/21/2020 6:42 AM

MxKing809 wrote:

Haven’t seen it - how so?

Keep in mind: their rider crashed and is currently paralyzed, and their former rider mopped ...more

logan_140 wrote:

Go watch it. Tld is about halfway thru. The team manager just seems like a straight up douche. Telling hartraft mechanic “if ...more

You've clearly never been around a top tier team.

No offense but these guys aren't getting paid to just ride around. They're getting paid to perform.

TK cares about his riders (not that others don't) and wants to see them achieve their best to achieve their person goals and the goals of the team.

That isn't done with being a pushover. (You know...um...it might be cool if you could go faster and stuff...you know...if you're feeling it.) Yeah Right. hahaha

As for the mass exodus. The problem was/is with the bike not the team. Look at where this "mass exodus" of riders went: PC and Star Racing - the two powerhouses of the sport. (Would you turn down that opportunity?)

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2/21/2020 6:44 AM

MxKing809 wrote:

Haven’t seen it - how so?

Keep in mind: their rider crashed and is currently paralyzed, and their former rider mopped ...more

logan_140 wrote:

Go watch it. Tld is about halfway thru. The team manager just seems like a straight up douche. Telling hartraft mechanic “if ...more

Zaugg wrote:

You've clearly never been around a top tier team.

No offense but these guys aren't getting paid to just ride around. They're ...more

I haven’t been around a top tier team, but my buddy has worked for too tier teams and agrees with me. Said TK is a douche.

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2/21/2020 6:55 AM
Edited Date/Time: 2/21/2020 6:59 AM

scootch wrote:

I agree with the OP on this one. There's ways to go about it and acting like isn't one of them. No wonder there has been a ...more

What did he say to Brandon that you thought was uncalled for?

Keep in mind, things can be edited together to fit whatever mood you want and can appear worse/harsher than they are at that moment in time. Music, camera work, atmosphere, etc.

Did you ever play sports in school? It kinda reminded me of the way a football coach can act on certain days when the team or certain players are slacking. I don’t see anything wrong...

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2/21/2020 7:01 AM

logan_140 wrote:

I haven’t been around a top tier team, but my buddy has worked for too tier teams and agrees with me. Said TK is a douche.

Ok...you and your buddy are entitled to that opinion. (That he's a douche.)

My point is this...top tier teams have high expectations and leadership isn't a one-size-fits all.

I can tell you that in the moment, riders probably don't like being pushed, but when they look back, they're glad someone pushed them instead of coddle them.

For what it's worth, I didn't think it was so much as TK being a douche but being frustrated because he can see Brandon's potential and was tired of watching him burn gas. Again, he wants to see Brandon ride to his potential for him Brandon and the team. The cameras caught an authentic moment. Unless you've never been frustrated, I don't see how you can fault that.

Maybe watch again and see how TK directly treats Brandon. You might see a different person.

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2/21/2020 7:05 AM

logan_140 wrote:

Go watch it. Tld is about halfway thru. The team manager just seems like a straight up douche. Telling hartraft mechanic “if ...more

Zaugg wrote:

You've clearly never been around a top tier team.

No offense but these guys aren't getting paid to just ride around. They're ...more

logan_140 wrote:

I haven’t been around a top tier team, but my buddy has worked for too tier teams and agrees with me. Said TK is a douche.

So brandon is 4 seconds a lap off the pace , he is just going to let him continue on and say good job, great day ?

Brandon then goes out and gets his first 2 podiums of his career 3 and 10 days later?

Go read the David Goggins book about accountability and needing to push yourself beyond the 60% you are actually giving . That will teach your a little something about life and the effort that is required to be “ your” best. Maybe you should ask Brandon what he thinks about the situation .

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2/21/2020 7:05 AM

logan_140 wrote:

Jesus Christ the tld ktm team seems toxic as fuck. What could help turn that team around? New manager?

An organization becomes a direct reflection of its leadership over time. And it is and has been toxic for a while. I rarely have inside exposure to things in the industry, but that is one situation where I have some direct connections (or had).

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2/21/2020 7:44 AM

It’s crazy to me that some of you are questioning a persons character in a public forum from a small clip on a show. Unreal.

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Go Hawks!

2/21/2020 7:49 AM

logan_140 wrote:

Jesus Christ the tld ktm team seems toxic as fuck. What could help turn that team around? New manager?

TbonesPop wrote:

An organization becomes a direct reflection of its leadership over time. And it is and has been toxic for a while. I rarely ...more

Omitting names, tell us what you know? Id think Roger would step in if he thought things were not right. Roger knows how to run a team & manage people.

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The above may be fact or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting. I am not sure, you have no chance.

2/21/2020 8:22 AM

I watched it and noticed that right away...for me its not so much about the fact that Tyler was pushing him, its the way he was doing it. Of course could just be the editing of the footage, but Tyler seemed like he was just complaining and pushing just for the sake of it, without having some sort of constructive criticism, until Tickle stepped in. Just seemed like he had no idea how to constructively push a rider to their limit himself, just knows how to complain and speak passive aggressive statements to his rider and their team. Again, I don't have any sort of insider knowledge with the team so it could just be media editing magic that pushed across this vibe

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2/21/2020 8:25 AM

Where can we watch.

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2/21/2020 8:36 AM

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

2/21/2020 8:37 AM

logan_140 wrote:

Jesus Christ the tld ktm team seems toxic as fuck. What could help turn that team around? New manager?

TbonesPop wrote:

An organization becomes a direct reflection of its leadership over time. And it is and has been toxic for a while. I rarely ...more

You may know someone who was slighted by that team, but toxic is not true. Stop it . That team is a team , any one of those guys would lay on the tracks for TK .. including Shane last year and including Jordon. Those guys won and established their value that they are getting paid now from other teams . They didn’t leave because of the staff or leadership.. you really are making claims that hold no weight .

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2/21/2020 8:40 AM

OFalk280 wrote:

I watched it and noticed that right away...for me its not so much about the fact that Tyler was pushing him, its the way he ...more

This 100%

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2/21/2020 8:41 AM

Zaugg wrote:

You've clearly never been around a top tier team.

No offense but these guys aren't getting paid to just ride around. They're ...more

logan_140 wrote:

I haven’t been around a top tier team, but my buddy has worked for too tier teams and agrees with me. Said TK is a douche.

therealhammer wrote:

So brandon is 4 seconds a lap off the pace , he is just going to let him continue on and say good job, great day ?

Brandon ...more

I don’t have a problem with them pushing their riders, obviously that needs to be done. But it’s the way that he went about it.

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2/21/2020 8:58 AM

JohnnyD13 wrote:

I would say most of the top guys have been pushed like this. It’s no secret how Carmichael’s mom was. Villos dad, stew. The ...more

logan_140 wrote:

I get that he’s trying to push him, but he just comes off as a straight up douche. Maybe it’ll work who knows. Just completely ...more

Like pro circuit and star Yamaha. Like when Jason Anderson was benched. Did you hear what Bobby told Justin Cooper. What teams are these you speak of that don’t do it this way? I’m sure you guys that disagree probably don’t run something as successful as a top level supercross team

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2/21/2020 9:12 AM

logan_140 wrote:

Jesus Christ the tld ktm team seems toxic as fuck. What could help turn that team around? New manager?

TbonesPop wrote:

An organization becomes a direct reflection of its leadership over time. And it is and has been toxic for a while. I rarely ...more

therealhammer wrote:

You may know someone who was slighted by that team, but toxic is not true. Stop it . That team is a team , any one of those ...more

Shane brought this up (after race conference I think?). He mentioned how it was such a hard thing to leave that setup. He's already on Yamaha, happy (and winning so far) so he surely did not have to mention that.

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2/21/2020 9:40 AM

There was a DMXS podcast last week where David Izer discussed the MotoSpy Keefe/Hartranft interaction with David Vuillemin, it was interesting to hear to DV's take on coaching:

https://www.dmxsradio.com/90-cooper-webb-david-vuillemin/

In fact the whole segment with DV was friggin' awesome on this episode.

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Old MXer turned Superfan.

2/21/2020 9:50 AM

Nothing wrong with what TK was saying.. hes a professional athlete.. If you think this is bad, please go to a high school football practice... ive gotten way worse from coaches... High school football is huge in socal and we dont even get paid lol... atleast hes getting paid, and paid really well.

Also, if you think thats bad, listen to Ricky Carmichaels episode from Ping's Whiskey Throttle show... youll get an idea of what tough love is...

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2/21/2020 9:54 AM

logan_140 wrote:

I haven’t been around a top tier team, but my buddy has worked for too tier teams and agrees with me. Said TK is a douche.

The team is out there spending a lot of money on equipment, man power and more all with 1 goal to make the racer as fast as possible. TK was doing nothing more than expecting the best out of his rider and trying to work with him to get it out of him.

Being a Douche would have been saying he will never make it and to just give up and bag groceries for a living.

So yeah, not sure how you conflate expecting the best out of a rider to being a douche.

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2/21/2020 10:31 AM

I can't remember if it was the first Moto Spy or if it was the SX Preshow, but TK came across as a complete douche about the entire McElrath situation. I get being upset for a little while, but let it go. He came across as completely butthurt still because McElrath left and said the bike wasn't good enough to win.

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2/21/2020 11:34 AM

Maybe he (TKeefe) was going to pull him off as he could see his head was not in it??? More chance of a crash when pushing hard but don’t really feel right??

Is this topic just another sign of snowflake generation - please don’t say anything to upset some eh

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Now a member of the Orange brigade