Just out of curiosity

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11/2/2018 2:50 PM

I'm just curious to know how much a full set of PC works suspension would cost. Or any company for that matter. Like a full set of brand new spring forks and shock, sprung and valved for you. I figure at least some of you have to have bought some before. I'm just curious

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11/2/2018 3:04 PM

A new Showa A kit (forks/shock/triple clamps/axle) from pro circuit is around the $10-11k ballpark. You can’t buy “works” suspension. If you want that, achieve the simple task of becoming a factory rider.

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11/2/2018 3:07 PM

$7k + for the PC kit. Technical touch will also supply anyone with consumer version of “works” KYB suspension for similar price as the PC kit.

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11/2/2018 3:15 PM

pCp 252 wrote:

$7k + for the PC kit. Technical touch will also supply anyone with consumer version of “works” KYB suspension for similar ...more

As of March of 2017..PC was $8700 for the A kit, $700 clamps, $200 axle kit, and if you wanted turquoise TiNi coating, it was an extra $1,325.

KYB Kit suspension is a little cheaper. In the $7-8k ballpark.

WP cone valve/trax shock are similar to KYB pricing.

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11/2/2018 3:20 PM

And does it make the average rider any better/faster?

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11/2/2018 3:22 PM

Beeby wrote:

And does it make the average rider any better/faster?

Who cares? Buy what makes you happy.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

11/2/2018 3:25 PM

Beeby wrote:

And does it make the average rider any better/faster?

I’d say yes

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11/2/2018 3:27 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/2/2018 3:42 PM

I choose to ride with A kits on my last few bikes for a few reasons.

1) I can afford to and it’s my choice

2) you can sell the kit when you sell the bike to recoup most of your cost (if you buy a used kit)

3) The suspension is amazing. Plush in the chop and soaks up big hits without a huge jarring hit. I’ve had 2 different Showa A kits, and currently have WP cone valves.

4) is it going to turn a C rider into a pro? Of course not. Has it made me faster? Yes, because I have a lot more confidence in my suspension. It’s saved my ass a number of times.

To each their own.

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11/2/2018 3:51 PM

Justin345 wrote:

I choose to ride with A kits on my last few bikes for a few reasons.

1) I can afford to and it’s my choice

2) you can sell ...more

Could be:
5. Makes you feel comfortable on bike.

If I could I would have a set

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Now a member of the Orange brigade

11/2/2018 4:01 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/2/2018 4:02 PM

Beeby wrote:

And does it make the average rider any better/faster?

The suspension itself? Nope. It probably inspires confidence which equals comfort and speed. But if he has the money to blow, who are we to stop him?

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/2/2018 4:58 PM

Beeby wrote:

And does it make the average rider any better/faster?

mattyhamz2 wrote:

The suspension itself? Nope. It probably inspires confidence which equals comfort and speed. But if he has the money to blow, ...more

"The suspension itself? Nope". Ok, answer this for me.....2 bikes sitting next to each other....they are identical except for the fact that one has stock suspension and one has kit suspension. Tomac rides both bikes back to back on any track you like, MX or SX. You are saying that suspension itself will not make any difference. So he is going to do the same lap times on both bikes...is that right?

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11/2/2018 5:00 PM

Beeby wrote:

And does it make the average rider any better/faster?

mattyhamz2 wrote:

The suspension itself? Nope. It probably inspires confidence which equals comfort and speed. But if he has the money to blow, ...more

Ewan49 wrote:

"The suspension itself? Nope". Ok, answer this for me.....2 bikes sitting next to each other....they are identical except for ...more

Average rider. Check the original post I replied to.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/2/2018 5:46 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

The suspension itself? Nope. It probably inspires confidence which equals comfort and speed. But if he has the money to blow, ...more

Ewan49 wrote:

"The suspension itself? Nope". Ok, answer this for me.....2 bikes sitting next to each other....they are identical except for ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Average rider. Check the original post I replied to.

Ok replace Tomac with average rider. Doesn't matter one bit. Skill/ability is relative. Tomac can push harder on the kit suspension, that is a simple fact! Just because average rider doesn't have Tomac speed doesn't mean that average rider cannot push harder on kit suspension. Based on what you are saying, you haven't rode a bike with kit suspension...if you ever get the chance to you will very quickly see you are faster on the kit stuff.

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11/2/2018 7:34 PM

Ewan49 wrote:

"The suspension itself? Nope". Ok, answer this for me.....2 bikes sitting next to each other....they are identical except for ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Average rider. Check the original post I replied to.

Ewan49 wrote:

Ok replace Tomac with average rider. Doesn't matter one bit. Skill/ability is relative. Tomac can push harder on the kit ...more

You’re right, I have never ridden with kit suspension and chances are probably never will. Nor do I have the money to ever buy kit suspension. I don’t feel that the difference of kit suspension will enough to justify the price tag, for me. Plus I can’t afford it anyways. I’ve got a wife and 2 kids, so kit suspension is a no go until they are grown and out of the house.

I say if you have the money, sure go for it! But for the average weekend warrior that doesn’t race or ride super aggressive, I don’t see any reason for the average guy to have kit suspension vs having Enzo, FC or PC set the stock stuff up for the rider other than having the money and wanting kit suspension just because they can afford it.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/2/2018 7:47 PM

Beeby wrote:

And does it make the average rider any better/faster?

Regardless of where it comes from confidence,
makes the average better and faster

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Germany 1975 250 CZ Centerport, laydown shocks, mikuni with reed valve, Marzocchi forks with me as the motopilot

11/2/2018 8:23 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Average rider. Check the original post I replied to.

Ewan49 wrote:

Ok replace Tomac with average rider. Doesn't matter one bit. Skill/ability is relative. Tomac can push harder on the kit ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You’re right, I have never ridden with kit suspension and chances are probably never will. Nor do I have the money to ever buy ...more

That is awesome you are putting your wife and 2 kids first. Family is more important than anything!!! But I hope in some way, shape or form that you get to ride a bike with kit suspension one day. You will have a smile on your face like you have never had before!

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11/2/2018 8:27 PM

Is there anything BAD about kit suspension? I’m just the average fat vet guy that’s been thinking strongly about getting a set of CV forks and Trax shock for my 350. All of these positive comments are going to end up costing me a lot of money I think.

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11/2/2018 8:53 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/2/2018 8:54 PM

Suspension is the most important part of a bike. It will help you go faster for sure and help arm pump and increase confidence. When you can go over bumps without feeling it as much you can go faster naturally. I would love to ride a bike with works suspension just to see. I remember I spent 1500 back in the day in factory connection suspension and it was awesome so I couldn’t imagine full factory or works suspension..
Was much faster on it and I’m just a c rider.

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11/2/2018 8:54 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/2/2018 8:55 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You’re right, I have never ridden with kit suspension and chances are probably never will. Nor do I have the money to ever buy ...more

I figured you had used some or were a suspension expert. This post, you say there is a difference, but it’s not enough to substantiate the cost. Are you a politician?

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11/2/2018 9:00 PM

Ewan49 wrote:

Ok replace Tomac with average rider. Doesn't matter one bit. Skill/ability is relative. Tomac can push harder on the kit ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You’re right, I have never ridden with kit suspension and chances are probably never will. Nor do I have the money to ever buy ...more

uk125250 wrote:

I figured you had used some or were a suspension expert. This post, you say there is a difference, but it’s not enough to ...more

I never said there wasn’t a difference. I know there is. I said the average joe wouldn’t notice much difference, if any difference.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/2/2018 9:20 PM

T-Fish wrote:

Is there anything BAD about kit suspension? I’m just the average fat vet guy that’s been thinking strongly about getting a set ...more

I cannot think of one single thing bad about kit suspension. Even if you aren't worried about going faster then just the comfort factor alone makes it well worth it! But I'm yet to meet somebody who has been disappointed with the improved speed it has given them!!! If you can afford it then take the plunge...you won't be disappointed.
Just one warning though....do not take any notice of all the small-minded, jealous 2 year-old idiots that you will hear mumble to their equally small-minded, jealous 2 year-old bro's why the f#*k has he got kit suspension for?!?! Just smile and wave as you cruise by....that will piss them off even more!!!

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11/2/2018 9:23 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You’re right, I have never ridden with kit suspension and chances are probably never will. Nor do I have the money to ever buy ...more

uk125250 wrote:

I figured you had used some or were a suspension expert. This post, you say there is a difference, but it’s not enough to ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I never said there wasn’t a difference. I know there is. I said the average joe wouldn’t notice much difference, if any ...more

I got to ride a bike with Pro Circuit A kit, and wasnt expecting much of a difference from my Enzo revalved stuff. Absolute night and day difference, instantaneous speed and confidence. Bombed out corners felt like riding on a pillow. If I were racing seriously, money would be spent on suspension before anything else, new bike included.

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11/2/2018 9:33 PM

uk125250 wrote:

I figured you had used some or were a suspension expert. This post, you say there is a difference, but it’s not enough to ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I never said there wasn’t a difference. I know there is. I said the average joe wouldn’t notice much difference, if any ...more

davis224 wrote:

I got to ride a bike with Pro Circuit A kit, and wasnt expecting much of a difference from my Enzo revalved stuff. Absolute ...more

I’m sure it’s night and day difference. And I’m sure most guys that are serious riders and racers would instantly feel it. I believe I’d be one of those guys that would feel it. I’d love to be able to try kit suspension out one day to feel the difference. My dad tested for Yamaha in the early 90’s and got to break in Bradshaw’s yz250 with Dubach before the San Jose SX. He said that bike was unreal and the suspension was the best he’s ever ridden with, until he got tired and couldn’t ride aggressive everywhere on the track. Once he started slowing down he said it started handling really ill, but as long as you attacked everything it was like riding on clouds.

I’m not trying to say that kit suspension sucks, because I know it’s really really good. I’m just saying I’ve know average guys that aren’t serious that couldn’t tell me the difference between my dads stuff from Enzo, my stuff from Enzo that was setup for 60lbs less and their own stock stuff. Literally told me they felt no difference. Most of the guys we know are like that.

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/2/2018 10:53 PM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Average rider. Check the original post I replied to.

Ewan49 wrote:

Ok replace Tomac with average rider. Doesn't matter one bit. Skill/ability is relative. Tomac can push harder on the kit ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You’re right, I have never ridden with kit suspension and chances are probably never will. Nor do I have the money to ever buy ...more

Just ride bmx. You will get use to not having suspension and anything will feel good lol.

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11/2/2018 11:13 PM

Ewan49 wrote:

Ok replace Tomac with average rider. Doesn't matter one bit. Skill/ability is relative. Tomac can push harder on the kit ...more

mattyhamz2 wrote:

You’re right, I have never ridden with kit suspension and chances are probably never will. Nor do I have the money to ever buy ...more

dirtmike86 wrote:

Just ride bmx. You will get use to not having suspension and anything will feel good lol.

lol!!

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

11/3/2018 3:22 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

I never said there wasn’t a difference. I know there is. I said the average joe wouldn’t notice much difference, if any ...more

This couldn’t be further from the truth. A true beginner that’s putting around the track may not be able to notice a difference. I would say any decent C level rider and up will be blown away at the difference. And when I say difference, I’m talking about the difference between stock revalved suspension vs kit. I made a thread on here comparing my showa A kit (that pro circuit set up) to pro circuit revalved stock set up if you feel like searching.

It still has to be valved and sprung for your weight and ability, just like every other suspension.

Hopefully you get a chance to ride a bike with an A kit at some point. It’s a night and day difference. Once I bought my first A kit, I made the decision that I won’t ride without one again! It’s that big of a deal.

These days used A kits are everywhere in the $2500-$3500 range. Considering you can use it and sell it in the future for relatively no loss, it’s a no brainer if you can swing the initial cash outlay.

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11/3/2018 4:16 AM

What do most of you consider true "A" kit suspension?

If you read the for sale section it is mind blowing what gets called "A" kit.

I have my definition, which I think is in line with what most here in this thread are calling A kit stuff, but I think the term gets thrown around way to much these days!

For example, I bought an "A" kit out of the for sale section and was blown away with what we saw. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't expecting more as the price reflected what I got, however this was called "A" kit from a fairly well known company...

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2020 YZ450F
2018 KTM 450SXF FE
2016 YZ250F 2008 CRF450R
2015 YZ250F 2008 CRF250R
2001 CR250R
2010 YZ250 2012 CRF150R
2009 YZ125 2010 KX109.5
SSR Motorsports Dealer YCF Motorcycles
TAGMX Suspension & Graphics! www.tagmxsuspension.com https://www.liquidskinzdesign.com/



11/3/2018 4:37 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/3/2018 4:43 AM

sgrimmxdad wrote:

What do most of you consider true "A" kit suspension?

If you read the for sale section it is mind blowing what gets called ...more

Prior to ~2007, pro circuit had a “PC Kit” which used RM 49mm tubes and uppers but they changed around all the internals to make “kit” suspension.

Around 2007-2008ish, Showa came out with their official “A kit”, which is why we now call everything “A kit”. More on that in a bit. Over the years, Showa has made A kit in dual spring, SFF spring, SFF AIR, SFF TAC AIR, and now back to dual spring. All 49mm lowers. Kashima uppers, some use DLC some TiNi lowers, CNC lugs, CNC’d internals with much tighter tolerances than prodicution suspension, larger dampening rods, etc. internals also coated for friction reduction.

KYB: Doesn’t have an “A kit”. They call their “A kit” product “KYB Kit Suspension”. 48mm lowers and based on production suspension. Admittedly, I don’t know as much about their versions in terms of what is different than production suspension. It has Kashima uppers, DLC Lowers and most new kits have cnc’d lugs, but some came with cast lugs. They have PSF1 and spring versions.

WP: Cone Valve (spring and AER versions) and trax shock are their “A kit”.

It drives me insane when someone gets their stock suspension coated (Kashima or anodized uppers, DLC or TiNi lowers) and calls it A kit suspension. It’s not. That’s the definition of what everyone knows as a “B kit”.

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11/3/2018 4:40 AM

Exactly!!!!!!!

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2020 YZ450F
2018 KTM 450SXF FE
2016 YZ250F 2008 CRF450R
2015 YZ250F 2008 CRF250R
2001 CR250R
2010 YZ250 2012 CRF150R
2009 YZ125 2010 KX109.5
SSR Motorsports Dealer YCF Motorcycles
TAGMX Suspension & Graphics! www.tagmxsuspension.com https://www.liquidskinzdesign.com/



11/3/2018 4:55 AM

The advantage of works suspension is that every single aspect of it is specifically set up for that individual rider and their preference. The sky is the limit. If you or I were to ride any current factory bike with factory suspension, it would be likely be AWFUL. It would feel like we were riding on steel rods because it’s valved and set up to be so much more stiff, due to the speed at which they’re riding. It would especially awful for a normal person to ride a factory bike with their SX settings for suspension.

It goes back to the whole statement of “it still has to be set up for you and your skill level”.

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