UPDATE: Just because it's been a while: Kawasaki Oil Coolers

#434
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#434
Edited Date/Time 7/10/2021 12:01pm
MXGP Factory Kawasaki Oil Cooler: beautifully done, short oil lines, good location, clean flow through the cooler.


American Factory Kawasaki: dumbest piece of equipment ever put on a bike Tongue

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kb228
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kb228 7/17/2019 4:21am
7/17/2019 4:21am
Im sure what were seeing is KHI trying two different designs. If the GP style works well im sure MEK will use it.
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early
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early 7/17/2019 6:26am
7/17/2019 6:26am
#434 wrote:
MXGP Factory Kawasaki Oil Cooler: beautifully done, short oil lines, good location, clean flow through the cooler. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/17/360627/s1200_fuller_MXGP_P4I0012_630386.jpg[/img] American Factory Kawasaki: dumbest piece of equipment ever...
MXGP Factory Kawasaki Oil Cooler: beautifully done, short oil lines, good location, clean flow through the cooler.


American Factory Kawasaki: dumbest piece of equipment ever put on a bike Tongue

One of these bikes wins races
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Ericrob7
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Ericrob7 7/17/2019 6:30am
7/17/2019 6:30am
#434 wrote:
MXGP Factory Kawasaki Oil Cooler: beautifully done, short oil lines, good location, clean flow through the cooler. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/17/360627/s1200_fuller_MXGP_P4I0012_630386.jpg[/img] American Factory Kawasaki: dumbest piece of equipment ever...
MXGP Factory Kawasaki Oil Cooler: beautifully done, short oil lines, good location, clean flow through the cooler.


American Factory Kawasaki: dumbest piece of equipment ever put on a bike Tongue

early wrote:
One of these bikes wins races
Hahahah!!
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AJ565
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AJ565 7/17/2019 7:52am
7/17/2019 7:52am
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools more fluid faster. The tube style is cheaper and the least efficient of cooler designs and not as durable.
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SeaClassExpert 7/17/2019 8:21am
7/17/2019 8:21am
Mav coming in with them receipts, you love to see it.

Also OP one of those bikes is consistently a threat to win and the other never sniffs the damn podium. But sick fucking oil cooler dude, you euros are just so advanced compared to us.
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bvm111
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bvm111 7/17/2019 9:29am
7/17/2019 9:29am
so what is that thing on the side of Eli's cylinder?ShockedShockedShocked
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dean122
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dean122 7/17/2019 10:11am
7/17/2019 10:11am
bvm111 wrote:
so what is that thing on the side of Eli's cylinder?ShockedShockedShocked
It's Kawi's new Push to Pass system. Been working really well this year.
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Falcon 7/17/2019 1:57pm
7/17/2019 1:57pm
AJ565 wrote:
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools...
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools more fluid faster. The tube style is cheaper and the least efficient of cooler designs and not as durable.
In addition, the US Team's location on the left side of the bike avoids radiant heat from the header pipe, allowing for a slightly cooler surface temp on the oil cooler. It also doesn't impede the airflow from the right-side radiator, which has that problem itself. I bet the above results in a measurable difference in oil temps and water temps under any given load.
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#434
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#434 7/17/2019 3:01pm
7/17/2019 3:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/17/2019 3:02pm
AJ565 wrote:
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools...
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools more fluid faster. The tube style is cheaper and the least efficient of cooler designs and not as durable.
It‘s not a tube style cooler.
Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits:


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AJ565
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AJ565 7/17/2019 3:11pm
7/17/2019 3:11pm
AJ565 wrote:
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools...
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools more fluid faster. The tube style is cheaper and the least efficient of cooler designs and not as durable.
#434 wrote:
It‘s not a tube style cooler. Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/17/360768/s1200_8FEEBDA6_017E_4AE6_981C_08DC92A04B72.jpg[/img]
It‘s not a tube style cooler.
Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits:


Ah, well in that case its still not as efficient of a cooler as a stacked plate cooler. The plate/fin cooler is better that the tube/fin cooler though.

https://transmissioncoolerguide.com/transmission-cooler-types/
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tiddlermx23
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tiddlermx23 7/17/2019 5:32pm
7/17/2019 5:32pm Edited Date/Time 7/19/2019 3:43am
I'm wondering how long before bikes just come with an instrument panel to operate things. Builder was uncrating a new 2020 yz450f and the damn thing has 4 buttons spread out over the bars. Kill, map, tc and start button...lol
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cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 7/17/2019 6:30pm
7/17/2019 6:30pm
AJ565 wrote:
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools...
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools more fluid faster. The tube style is cheaper and the least efficient of cooler designs and not as durable.
Falcon wrote:
In addition, the US Team's location on the left side of the bike avoids radiant heat from the header pipe, allowing for a slightly cooler surface...
In addition, the US Team's location on the left side of the bike avoids radiant heat from the header pipe, allowing for a slightly cooler surface temp on the oil cooler. It also doesn't impede the airflow from the right-side radiator, which has that problem itself. I bet the above results in a measurable difference in oil temps and water temps under any given load.
Also, it's mounted lower which reduces the pressure drop across the cooler and places it closer to the center of mass of the motorcycle.

Think of it as a radiator lowering kit.
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#434
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#434 7/17/2019 11:07pm
7/17/2019 11:07pm Edited Date/Time 7/18/2019 1:13am
AJ565 wrote:
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools...
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools more fluid faster. The tube style is cheaper and the least efficient of cooler designs and not as durable.
#434 wrote:
It‘s not a tube style cooler. Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/17/360768/s1200_8FEEBDA6_017E_4AE6_981C_08DC92A04B72.jpg[/img]
It‘s not a tube style cooler.
Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits:


AJ565 wrote:
Ah, well in that case its still not as efficient of a cooler as a stacked plate cooler. The plate/fin cooler is better that the tube/fin...
Ah, well in that case its still not as efficient of a cooler as a stacked plate cooler. The plate/fin cooler is better that the tube/fin cooler though.

https://transmissioncoolerguide.com/transmission-cooler-types/
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it..
The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air is funneled through a small air scoop coming from the water cooler.
So they take already hot air (which the other one does too) and try to force it to flow around a cooler that’s mounted 90 degrees to what it should be mounted. There just isn‘t any flow through the cooler and without flow, the cooler is more like an external oil tank just sitting there. Plus it exposes a large surface to the very close cylinder head which by itself radiates a lot of heat.
I get the point of mounting it low and closer to the center of mass of the bike. But if they would mount the cooler in a position where it could get a decent amount of air flow it could be half the size to do the job and therefore be lighter.
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AJ565
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AJ565 7/18/2019 6:17am
7/18/2019 6:17am
#434 wrote:
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it.. The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air...
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it..
The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air is funneled through a small air scoop coming from the water cooler.
So they take already hot air (which the other one does too) and try to force it to flow around a cooler that’s mounted 90 degrees to what it should be mounted. There just isn‘t any flow through the cooler and without flow, the cooler is more like an external oil tank just sitting there. Plus it exposes a large surface to the very close cylinder head which by itself radiates a lot of heat.
I get the point of mounting it low and closer to the center of mass of the bike. But if they would mount the cooler in a position where it could get a decent amount of air flow it could be half the size to do the job and therefore be lighter.
Well it is in a carbon fiber box that directs air flow to it and vents it out of it, so I mean it looks like they have that covered. I feel you're over thinking things a bit here on how air flow works and where its coming from. Being towards the bottom of the radiator that should be the coolest spot (if the hot water flows in from top to bottom). Also being a more efficient design lets it work better than the other designs so even if it has less air flow its still transferring more heat to the available air that is going over it. I'm not saying either setup is better than the other here, I'm just saying the cooler the US team uses is a better design vs. the GP team.
kb228
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kb228 7/18/2019 6:22am
7/18/2019 6:22am
#434 wrote:
It‘s not a tube style cooler. Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/17/360768/s1200_8FEEBDA6_017E_4AE6_981C_08DC92A04B72.jpg[/img]
It‘s not a tube style cooler.
Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits:


AJ565 wrote:
Ah, well in that case its still not as efficient of a cooler as a stacked plate cooler. The plate/fin cooler is better that the tube/fin...
Ah, well in that case its still not as efficient of a cooler as a stacked plate cooler. The plate/fin cooler is better that the tube/fin cooler though.

https://transmissioncoolerguide.com/transmission-cooler-types/
#434 wrote:
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it.. The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air...
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it..
The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air is funneled through a small air scoop coming from the water cooler.
So they take already hot air (which the other one does too) and try to force it to flow around a cooler that’s mounted 90 degrees to what it should be mounted. There just isn‘t any flow through the cooler and without flow, the cooler is more like an external oil tank just sitting there. Plus it exposes a large surface to the very close cylinder head which by itself radiates a lot of heat.
I get the point of mounting it low and closer to the center of mass of the bike. But if they would mount the cooler in a position where it could get a decent amount of air flow it could be half the size to do the job and therefore be lighter.
All of that is true. But if that cooler is getting them to the temps they need even tho its not maximizing efficiency, thats probably just fine.
tingo
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tingo 7/18/2019 6:36am
7/18/2019 6:36am
#434 wrote:
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it.. The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air...
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it..
The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air is funneled through a small air scoop coming from the water cooler.
So they take already hot air (which the other one does too) and try to force it to flow around a cooler that’s mounted 90 degrees to what it should be mounted. There just isn‘t any flow through the cooler and without flow, the cooler is more like an external oil tank just sitting there. Plus it exposes a large surface to the very close cylinder head which by itself radiates a lot of heat.
I get the point of mounting it low and closer to the center of mass of the bike. But if they would mount the cooler in a position where it could get a decent amount of air flow it could be half the size to do the job and therefore be lighter.
It’s a damn shame these teams don’t have really smart, accomplished engineers on staff to help them figure these things out.
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#434
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#434 7/18/2019 8:03am
7/18/2019 8:03am
AJ565 wrote:
Ah, well in that case its still not as efficient of a cooler as a stacked plate cooler. The plate/fin cooler is better that the tube/fin...
Ah, well in that case its still not as efficient of a cooler as a stacked plate cooler. The plate/fin cooler is better that the tube/fin cooler though.

https://transmissioncoolerguide.com/transmission-cooler-types/
#434 wrote:
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it.. The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air...
Doesn‘t really matter if you don‘t flow air through it..
The cooler on Eli‘s bike is mounted parallel to the main flow direction and the air is funneled through a small air scoop coming from the water cooler.
So they take already hot air (which the other one does too) and try to force it to flow around a cooler that’s mounted 90 degrees to what it should be mounted. There just isn‘t any flow through the cooler and without flow, the cooler is more like an external oil tank just sitting there. Plus it exposes a large surface to the very close cylinder head which by itself radiates a lot of heat.
I get the point of mounting it low and closer to the center of mass of the bike. But if they would mount the cooler in a position where it could get a decent amount of air flow it could be half the size to do the job and therefore be lighter.
kb228 wrote:
All of that is true. But if that cooler is getting them to the temps they need even tho its not maximizing efficiency, thats probably just...
All of that is true. But if that cooler is getting them to the temps they need even tho its not maximizing efficiency, thats probably just fine.
You’re 100% right. It works, gets the temp down a little, adds oil volume. Why change what works?!
For me as engineer, the solution they come up with leaves a lot of question marks. And it‘s fun to debate about it Cool
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early
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early 7/18/2019 8:25am
7/18/2019 8:25am
#434 wrote:
You’re 100% right. It works, gets the temp down a little, adds oil volume. Why change what works?! For me as engineer, the solution they come...
You’re 100% right. It works, gets the temp down a little, adds oil volume. Why change what works?!
For me as engineer, the solution they come up with leaves a lot of question marks. And it‘s fun to debate about it Cool
What if the reason they put it there is that it is less likely to be damaged in a crash? A damaged oil cooler will put you out of a race quicker than a damaged coolant radiator. Not all decisions are 100% efficiency/performance based.
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#434
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#434 7/18/2019 8:41am
7/18/2019 8:41am
#434 wrote:
You’re 100% right. It works, gets the temp down a little, adds oil volume. Why change what works?! For me as engineer, the solution they come...
You’re 100% right. It works, gets the temp down a little, adds oil volume. Why change what works?!
For me as engineer, the solution they come up with leaves a lot of question marks. And it‘s fun to debate about it Cool
early wrote:
What if the reason they put it there is that it is less likely to be damaged in a crash? A damaged oil cooler will put...
What if the reason they put it there is that it is less likely to be damaged in a crash? A damaged oil cooler will put you out of a race quicker than a damaged coolant radiator. Not all decisions are 100% efficiency/performance based.
Totally possible! Like I said: it's fun to debate about it.
I think the put it there to get it closer to the center of mass. In the Villopoto days they put it behind the cylinder:

Source: MXA
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#434
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#434 7/10/2021 7:17am
7/10/2021 7:17am
It seems like Factory Kawi hired somebody that can at least spell the word thermodynamics and finally removed this contraption from their bikes.
Seems like they run a fan behind the left radiator now. First one's from Budds last weekend.






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LumpDog841
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LumpDog841 7/10/2021 7:23am
7/10/2021 7:23am
#434 wrote:
It seems like Factory Kawi hired somebody that can at least spell the word thermodynamics and finally removed this contraption from their bikes. Seems like they...
It seems like Factory Kawi hired somebody that can at least spell the word thermodynamics and finally removed this contraption from their bikes.
Seems like they run a fan behind the left radiator now. First one's from Budds last weekend.






Its now integrated into the left radiator.
#434
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#434 7/10/2021 7:36am
7/10/2021 7:36am
#434 wrote:
It seems like Factory Kawi hired somebody that can at least spell the word thermodynamics and finally removed this contraption from their bikes. Seems like they...
It seems like Factory Kawi hired somebody that can at least spell the word thermodynamics and finally removed this contraption from their bikes.
Seems like they run a fan behind the left radiator now. First one's from Budds last weekend.






LumpDog841 wrote:
Its now integrated into the left radiator.
That's a nice solution! They probably were surprised how much more cooling they get from the new setup compared to the old one.
Do you have a picture of the new radiator?
One can still see the oil line coming from the oil filter cover:


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#434
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#434 7/10/2021 11:57am
7/10/2021 11:57am
It looks like the right quarter of the left radiator is the oil cooler. Neat!

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-MAVERICK- 7/10/2021 12:01pm
7/10/2021 12:01pm
#434 wrote:
It looks like the right quarter of the left radiator is the oil cooler. Neat! [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/07/10/501275/s1200_A2DED509_7AB4_4E54_BB37_515F74E3CBAD.jpg[/img]
It looks like the right quarter of the left radiator is the oil cooler. Neat!

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#434
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#434 7/10/2021 12:37pm
7/10/2021 12:37pm
Thanks Mav!
Monk
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Monk 7/12/2021 6:31pm
7/12/2021 6:31pm
AJ565 wrote:
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools...
On topic, the stack plate type cooler that the US team uses is a more efficient than the tube style the GP team uses and cools more fluid faster. The tube style is cheaper and the least efficient of cooler designs and not as durable.
#434 wrote:
It‘s not a tube style cooler. Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/17/360768/s1200_8FEEBDA6_017E_4AE6_981C_08DC92A04B72.jpg[/img]
It‘s not a tube style cooler.
Here‘s anthor pic from GP Bits:


I'm more surprised Think Technologies is still in business...
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