Jeffrey Herlings's team manager on Red Bud

BR8ES
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BR8ES 1/19/2019 2:20pm
1/19/2019 2:20pm
Natester551v wrote:
Not sure what the debate is about. More practice at one discipline over another makes more proficient athletes. The Euro-based riders are better in MX, the...
Not sure what the debate is about. More practice at one discipline over another makes more proficient athletes. The Euro-based riders are better in MX, the US-based ones are better in SX.

Until we (the USA) have more dedicated outdoor riders racing GPs, get used to MXdN wins for the USA being fewer and further between.
St Ann More wrote:
This is the 'go-to' excuse now.

Previously 'SX was the reason Team USA' dominate.

Pride is a tough pill to swallow!

USA USA USA!
I remember when that was the so called reason for the dominance and now it's the so called reason for lack of dominance. Bizarre change of events and it couldn't possibly be cyclical and the fact that the Euros are just better now... could it? People need to make excuses or reasons for whatever is convenient, regardless of the reality.
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Crossup
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Crossup 1/19/2019 2:23pm
1/19/2019 2:23pm
motomike137 wrote:
I'm sorry but I'm calling bullshit on this. We didn't get starts plain and simple. If Justin or Eli had started out front in either of...
I'm sorry but I'm calling bullshit on this. We didn't get starts plain and simple. If Justin or Eli had started out front in either of their motos they would have at least podiumed. This one race is being so over scrutinized it's pathetic.
It's kind of interesting that you brought up the starts at the MX des Nations. I was there and thinking about it in a totally different perspective.

I watched Tomac roll up after the site lap with muddy tires onto a steel wet grate...at the same time I watched Herlings mechanics put his bike on a stand and flipped brand new dry tires after the site lap. I kept thinking at that moment that these guys (euro riders) are really covering the details and want to win this more.
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XR75_Flamethrower 1/19/2019 2:36pm
1/19/2019 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2019 3:15pm
Crossup wrote:
It's kind of interesting that you brought up the starts at the MX des Nations. I was there and thinking about it in a totally different...
It's kind of interesting that you brought up the starts at the MX des Nations. I was there and thinking about it in a totally different perspective.

I watched Tomac roll up after the site lap with muddy tires onto a steel wet grate...at the same time I watched Herlings mechanics put his bike on a stand and flipped brand new dry tires after the site lap. I kept thinking at that moment that these guys (euro riders) are really covering the details and want to win this more.
Eli Tomac has won 5 MXGP MX1 class motos of the 6 total he has competed in.

The one moto he did not win he came in 3rd behind Herlings & TonyC.

Winning 5 of 6 MXGP 450 moto's is a pretty good MXGP track record for Tomac.

At present Tomac is not doing well in Supercross including having to go to the LCQ last week. Sometimes such as Ironman 2017 when Herlings won and Tomac finished like 8th do we really think that all of the AMA riders that bested Tomac easily that day are truly better than him?

You need a full series to find out where anyone stands. US riders today are focused on Supercross for better or worse.

Sadly like pinball, rock music / guitar , it seems motocross and motorsports in general are on the way out as demographics change greatly and motorsports fade away. If it takes SX to keep some form of Moto alive in the US it's better than nothing.
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Titan1
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Titan1 1/19/2019 4:21pm
1/19/2019 4:21pm
I honestly think this current generation of MXGP riders are just faster than the current generation of AMA 450 riders...go back 10 years and the AMA riders were just faster than the MXGP riders.

Looking at the talent in MX2 compared to the AMA 250 class...I think that pendulum is going to swing back the other direction in a few more years (Cairolli retiring will be the beginning of that transition and Herlings retiring will complete it).

Then the Americans will win for a decade or so...then it will probably swing back the other way (unless pro racing in America becomes just supercross and the nationals become the minor league of dirt bike racing here...then America May never win another mxdn).
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Rupert X
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Rupert X 1/19/2019 4:43pm
1/19/2019 4:43pm
I guess we all forgot that we were racing Supercross in 2005-2011, and from 1981-1993, when we went on some lengthy, victorious MXDN winning sprees? Why is this never mentioned ? And why is Supercross STILL used as an excuse ? Let’s FIX Team America. Changes need to be made.
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theprizefighter 1/19/2019 4:43pm
1/19/2019 4:43pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2019 4:46pm
Natester551v wrote:
Not sure what the debate is about. More practice at one discipline over another makes more proficient athletes. The Euro-based riders are better in MX, the...
Not sure what the debate is about. More practice at one discipline over another makes more proficient athletes. The Euro-based riders are better in MX, the US-based ones are better in SX.

Until we (the USA) have more dedicated outdoor riders racing GPs, get used to MXdN wins for the USA being fewer and further between.
St Ann More wrote:
This is the 'go-to' excuse now.

Previously 'SX was the reason Team USA' dominate.

Pride is a tough pill to swallow!

USA USA USA!
BR8ES wrote:
I remember when that was the so called reason for the dominance and now it's the so called reason for lack of dominance. Bizarre change of...
I remember when that was the so called reason for the dominance and now it's the so called reason for lack of dominance. Bizarre change of events and it couldn't possibly be cyclical and the fact that the Euros are just better now... could it? People need to make excuses or reasons for whatever is convenient, regardless of the reality.
You’re looking at this through a very narrow lens. Of course the GP riders are better at the moment, most have admitted that much. The question is why? There are several factors and pointing that out isn’t making excuses. One of those factors is bike set up. Another is a focus on SX and the tracks themselves. In the 80s, 90s and early to mid 2000 the tracks were different than they are now because of the introduction of four strokes. It’s all changed.

Americans take pride in winning and there is nothing wrong with that. But this whole pride thing some of you are peddling is nonsense. If anyone is arrogant it’s many of the non Americans who are now mocking Team U.S.A. If you look at the nearly 30 year win streak of team U.S.A, it speaks for itself. GP guys have been winning since 2012 and they have all been well earned. But it’s not comparable to the dominance of the 80s and 90s and into 2011.
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Lucifa.
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Lucifa. 1/19/2019 4:51pm
1/19/2019 4:51pm
More excuses needed please. Once were done, we can vote on the best one and give next years team a heads up. Or you can just enjoy circuscross tonight. I will be Cool
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Shaned9326
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Shaned9326 1/19/2019 4:52pm
1/19/2019 4:52pm
Rupert X wrote:
I guess we all forgot that we were racing Supercross in 2005-2011, and from 1981-1993, when we went on some lengthy, victorious MXDN winning sprees? Why...
I guess we all forgot that we were racing Supercross in 2005-2011, and from 1981-1993, when we went on some lengthy, victorious MXDN winning sprees? Why is this never mentioned ? And why is Supercross STILL used as an excuse ? Let’s FIX Team America. Changes need to be made.
100 percent correct Rupert!!!!
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drt410
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drt410 1/19/2019 4:54pm
1/19/2019 4:54pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2019 4:56pm
Yea the people talking about it the most... is everybody except the us riders who raced. Herlings is talking about it, his mechanic, our fans, euro fans.

The only thing the us riders said is we got beat n have to do better, thats it.

Still Tomac winning 5 of 6 gps is not cause for concern. Hampshire won 2-2 gps at WW last year. The pendulum swings in different directions its perfectly fine if Euros win a few n the US wins a few. It makes for better racing why is dveryone complaining? The us record shows theres no cause for concern they just had a bad last 2 showings at mxon... it happens. 17’ was the B team too, but thats who we sent. Its fine. Can we stop talking about this over n over n over n over n over now? Im sure theyll try their best next year... till then nothing else to say.
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Underground 1/19/2019 5:23pm
1/19/2019 5:23pm
Question wrote:
It is a great comment about how the sport evolves and how the bikes are adapted to each environment. But the little critic on Dungey is...

It is a great comment about how the sport evolves and how the bikes are adapted to each environment.

But the little critic on Dungey is also not super nice, because you don't change the rider style and half of the bike on race day, it is a longer process to make the rider feel 1 with the bike.
XR75_Flamethrower wrote:
Exactly - what if they would they would have tried to get any MXGP rider to adjust to an American (SX) setup on race day or...
Exactly - what if they would they would have tried to get any MXGP rider to adjust to an American (SX) setup on race day or that week of even?

Back in the day the US was heavy into SX as it developed and developed new riding styles with it that enhanced motocross performance as well but motocross was still also very important as far as titles, wins, advertising (the crowds were much larger outdoors as well) but in the past 10-15 yrs as SX has evolved as a mostly LIVE TV sport pulling in revenue , in America moto sadly is an afterthought for many riders so it's not surprise that bikes / setups and rider prep are mostly geared solely for SX vs MX.

In the same past 10+ yrs with the advent of riding schools / YouTube , the Euro's have picked up on American techniques (staying low for instance) and emulate parts of American SX (including gear - try watching 2000 GP and notice that the riders don't even have the "look" of gear similar to the US while now they have the same style gear even).

Things change - the US has shifted mostly to SX & the GP riders have been learning key techniques that gave the US an advantage over them in the 80's, 90's 2000's thru 2011 when the US won nearly every single MXDN that they attended (with only 3 of the 20+ wins in that period being in the US).

What's sad is that we will never see MXGP riders line up against AMA riders on a true SX track. At least there's a yearly Motocross race where it's the US vs the rest of the world as MXDN lingers on.

Sad that tonight at A2 i'm sure 90% of the fans couldn't tell u how well the US placed at MXDN this year or that the US has by FAR won more MXDN's than any other country. They have no clue that the US has been losing recently or dominated much of the past 35 or so years overall.
You make it sound like the European Union came over and turned Red Bud into a totally different sport.
And if you look at the top of the said true SX series 450 points chart, you'll see a Euro leading with another not far behind.
You've lost me bud?
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rutsmash
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rutsmash 1/19/2019 6:03pm
1/19/2019 6:03pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2019 6:05pm
I must be the best rider in the world cause the track I mostly ride at is prepped anywhere from AMA, SX, MXGP to whatever else style on any given ride day. What a bunch of BS. They all ride the same track and Herlings just flat out is better in all but SX. If his bike is only good on MXGP, then how does he do so well over here? Nonsense.
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BobbyM
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BobbyM 1/19/2019 6:14pm
1/19/2019 6:14pm
line-up wrote:
It may seem a little contradictory, but the part on bikes settings is definitely factual. https://www.mxlarge.com/news/dirk-gruebel-interview Dirk Gruebel: What I don’t like, is they say we...
It may seem a little contradictory, but the part on bikes settings is definitely factual.

https://www.mxlarge.com/news/dirk-gruebel-interview

Dirk Gruebel: What I don’t like, is they say we changed their track, this was no tour Redbud track, but that is BS. It doesn’t matter if you change 30% of the track. The most honest guy was Roger. He said he could turn his back and tell when the American riders go past, because they rev their bike like shit and the bike goes nowhere. Prado on a 250 stayed in front of all those 450s, because he was shifting and riding in the correct way. It is lame and they blame the supercross, but I can tell you, their bike set-ups were wrong in Lommel, and they were wrong in Latvia, and they were wrong in Redbud. I saw it with Dungey who was in our tent, and you try and help them out, but they stick to the supercross settings. The front is too high and the back is too rigid and they can’t make the turns on a normal motocross and that is where it all starts.
Anyway you slice it the MXGP riders are better than the American MX riders... Even if by a smidgen, they are better.
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Nuffsaid
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Nuffsaid 1/19/2019 6:18pm
1/19/2019 6:18pm
“They have 1 horrible race at the recent MXON and now they cant ride? Yet Plessinger was even out front until he crashed.” drt410

2012,13,14,15,16,17,18?
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crowe176
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crowe176 1/19/2019 6:27pm
1/19/2019 6:27pm
IMO Herlings has elevated the current speed of the sport, and the guys he races with every weekend specifically. Same way RC did. I see him going on a run just like RC too. The only guys that stand a chance for the next 10 years, are going to be guys that know what he's capable of and race against him every weekend, and are willing to go to that level. The kid is a special, once in a great while kind of MX'er. He's only going to get faster and fitter until he gets bored of winning.

It's going to suck for anyone that wants to see good racing for a while, because that dude's most likely about to go on killing spree.
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captmoto
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captmoto 1/19/2019 8:38pm
1/19/2019 8:38pm
Press516 wrote:
And I remember a couple weeks later, Tomac running off from Herlings and Cairoli in Florida. It's still not as cut and dried as some want...
And I remember a couple weeks later, Tomac running off from Herlings and Cairoli in Florida.

It's still not as cut and dried as some want to make it out to be... I think we'll learn more when we compare the results next year to the results in Ernee in 2 years. Yeah, that's a long ways out but what I expect is that we will struggle in the sand and be winning moto's at Ernee.
That wasn't all that big of a deal. I can't see where Herlings or Cairoli really gave a shit. There was no real motivation to beat Tomac since he didn't figure into their title chase. I think it is more telling in the MXoN when there is nothing on the line but national pride.
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mxb2
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mxb2 1/19/2019 9:03pm
1/19/2019 9:03pm
Press516 wrote:
And I remember a couple weeks later, Tomac running off from Herlings and Cairoli in Florida. It's still not as cut and dried as some want...
And I remember a couple weeks later, Tomac running off from Herlings and Cairoli in Florida.

It's still not as cut and dried as some want to make it out to be... I think we'll learn more when we compare the results next year to the results in Ernee in 2 years. Yeah, that's a long ways out but what I expect is that we will struggle in the sand and be winning moto's at Ernee.
captmoto wrote:
That wasn't all that big of a deal. I can't see where Herlings or Cairoli really gave a shit. There was no real motivation to beat...
That wasn't all that big of a deal. I can't see where Herlings or Cairoli really gave a shit. There was no real motivation to beat Tomac since he didn't figure into their title chase. I think it is more telling in the MXoN when there is nothing on the line but national pride.
Yep and tomac won the title at ironman, didnt need to beat herlings.
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Pit Row

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GeorgiePorgie 1/19/2019 9:28pm
1/19/2019 9:28pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2019 9:29pm
Rupert X wrote:
I guess we all forgot that we were racing Supercross in 2005-2011, and from 1981-1993, when we went on some lengthy, victorious MXDN winning sprees? Why...
I guess we all forgot that we were racing Supercross in 2005-2011, and from 1981-1993, when we went on some lengthy, victorious MXDN winning sprees? Why is this never mentioned ? And why is Supercross STILL used as an excuse ? Let’s FIX Team America. Changes need to be made.
Shaaaaaaaddddddd upppp. Whada you know anyways?!?!? You and your facts!
drt410
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drt410 1/19/2019 9:31pm
1/19/2019 9:31pm
rutsmash wrote:
I must be the best rider in the world cause the track I mostly ride at is prepped anywhere from AMA, SX, MXGP to whatever else...
I must be the best rider in the world cause the track I mostly ride at is prepped anywhere from AMA, SX, MXGP to whatever else style on any given ride day. What a bunch of BS. They all ride the same track and Herlings just flat out is better in all but SX. If his bike is only good on MXGP, then how does he do so well over here? Nonsense.
Again its everyone except the US riders making excuses for them. They just said they got beat.

Lol none of us want to see anymore of these stupid threads but cant help but click on em.
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XR75_Flamethrower 1/26/2019 3:44pm
1/26/2019 3:44pm
I just realized, why all of this MXoN talk when it's just an additional GP round (usually on a normal / regular GP series track with the usual GP riders w/ the only difference being that 3 US riders & possibly some Euro AMA riders thrown in that don't race the MXGP series regularly).

Looking at it this way, how is it such a big deal to the MXGP community when these same guys race every week?

You could simply total up points by country thru the MXGP season and have a much more true result indicating the strongest country (except of course the US and a few foreign AMA riders would be missing) as a series vs a single day of racing is a much better indicator.
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TeamFlannel
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TeamFlannel 1/26/2019 8:06pm
1/26/2019 8:06pm
Watch the technique of the top 5-6 Euro's in the corners at Red Bud MXON, they used sweeping lines with momentum and lower rpm's. Was visibly faster.
Now watch the Americans try to square off in the deepest part of the berm, almost stopping forward momentum while floating valves and bouncing off the rev limiter.
Doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure that one out.
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