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I will ask this question.. In one calendar year, there are two championships in the US. Supercross and an outdoor national championship. So 2 potential championships up for grabs for any given rider in those series.
In order to compare MXGP, surely their national series championships must also be included in the same way, to make two potential championships up for grabs??
I think some people forget the euro’s ride their own countries series as well as MXGP.
Herlings still has a lot of racing left to do, and dominance left to prove. He's barely in his second season of racing 450s.
It is sad and disappointing people are this narrow-minded and insist on making such asinine comparisons.
By the way, GOATs are rad animals.
fucken gold
The next year, this rookie who had dominated on the 125 moves up. We had seen him struggle for two seasons on the 250 in SX (by his standards), but now we were going to MX where he had never lost a championship on that 125.
First moto, Tortelli blew past everyone again like they were sitting still and dusted the field. Well. Except for that rookie that was so far gone in 1st that he couldn't do anything.
Second moto, things were different. When they started 1-2 with Tortelli in 1st, we knew the battle was on. Tortelli pulled away from the field the same as he did the previous season. With a start this time though. Just one problem. That rookie in his first 250 MX race passed him on the first lap and was pulling away from him.
1-1 was the result that day in his first ever 250 race. The name? Ricky Carmichael. Something the record books would get used to on that top podium step.
Pretty soon, the likes of Tortelli, Windham, and Vuillemin all came to realize this rookie was going to win each and every race unless they were riding 100% and were on fire that day. Then they stood a chance. A slim chance, but it was a chance. Sometimes even riding their absolute best wasn't enough. They had to hope for some misfortune from Carmichael. Before the final race that year, it was sewn up. Racing the last race was never something he had to do in his entire MX career, but he did it anyway and went 1-1.
Yeah but that was MX. His bread and butter. There was this guy named Jeremy McGrath in SX who had won 7 of the previous 8 championships and nobody was even close. RC included. 2001 was more of the same. McGrath blew the doors off the competition and got 9 wins over the competition. Except the record books say 2. Oh. That's right. This guy named Ricky Carmichael somehow came in and made the King of Supercross look like a regular rider. Something he was simultaneously doing to the 3-20th place guys like he had been for the previous 8 seasons. His first SX championship was in the books.
And as they say, the rest is history. Never again did he lose a championship. Not once. Against some all time greats like Windham, Stewart, Reed, McGrath, and even some lesser riders who were still amazing like Vuillemin, Tortelli, and Ferry. From June 10, 2001 until his career ended on August 12, 2007, he lost a total of 5 overalls. 5. Let me repeat that again. 5 times in over 6 years he lost. In those losses, 4 of them were 2nd places. All the while winning motos by 20 seconds on the regular. And that was cruising for the final half of the moto usually.
Yeah but that was in the US. What about when he went to Europe? Those tracks are a lot different. 03 was an odd year. The four stroke was taking over but just hadn't quite completely done so yet. So some top pros were on the 450 and some still on the 250. Obvious advantage on the 450 there. Stefan Everts. You may have heard that name before. He was incredible. At the time he was unquestionably the GP GOAT. Everts in sand in Belgium? Forget about it. He gets a start and it's over. Especially if his main competition is on the 250. Someone forgot to tell Carmichael this, because while Everts destroyed all other riders on the day, Carmichael caught him from several seconds back, passed him, and checked out. Gone. See ya. 05? Completely different style. Tight track and nothing like the US tracks. How would he do here? Did you guess lead every single lap in every single race? If you did, you were right.
Simply put, nobody holds a candle to Carmichael. Not Everts, not Stewart, not Herlings, not Cairoli, not Reed, etc. etc. He is the GOAT and there isn't any arguments to say otherwise. Herlings has a long long long way to go before that is even remotely close to being mentioned. Everts is amazing. Cairoli is amazing. Herlings is amazing. The GPs are far superior than the AMA series is at the moment. The GPs have had an equal amount of great riders throughout my entire life following this sport. It isn't far fetched to say that GP guys in my lifetime have 4 of the top 5 slots when it comes to ranking the best I've seen. But whether you're an Aussie, a Euro, an American, an Asian, an African, or even a scientist living on Antarctica, there is no debate when it comes to number one. It's Carmichael. And it's not even close.
- wins multiple MXGP titles
- comes to the US and wins the 450 national title
- decides to give MotoGP a try
- wins a MotoGP title on a KTM
...then we can talk about GOAT status.
Pit Row
Much ty
In his first year Herlings broke his hand 2 weeks before the seasonstart, so started injured. Still he was by far the fastest in the second half of the season and took the most GP wins that year.
Still I'm not gonna say he's the GOAT, cause that is ridicolous. But don't talk shit about (1 of) the fastest rider of the planet at this moment.
Outdoors was a different story however, as RC spanked his ass and put him to bed with no dinner repeatedly, especially in the 2007 farewell tour. James had the speed to win but RC was consistently the better racer. I can't help but to think that 2008 and 2009 as being James' "prime" but between the two seasons he only raced one national series and one Supercross series. I don't think he was that much better in 2008 than he was in 2006/2007 to justify your notion that he wins 7/10. When it comes down to it he only won 3 races out of 23 attempts against RC in his career.
To me he is more of a James Stewart, or at least has been up to this point. He could evolve into a more patient ass-kicker, and probably will with age as most do.
It's too early to consider him for GOAT status, and I'm with DC on Carmichael. One thing I know for sure at the age of 51 is that is seems they all leave the sport before I'm ready to see them go, and then miss them once they are gone. Carmichael, Stewart, Villopoto, Dungey, etc.
You don't know what you got until it's gone.
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