James Says the Whoops Are Too Steep...

hellion
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Edited Date/Time 2/1/2014 3:53pm
Really? The whoops are too steep says James. And Chad's been saying they're too big. And yet everyone complains that the tracks are too fast and not technical enough. If you look at video's of races from the early 90's, you will see that quite often there were whoops that nobody could skim. Is it really necessary to make them in a way that lets most if not all blitz them. It seems to me it would be way more interesting if they were big enough and steep enough and long enough that guys all ended up having to find a rhythm of jumping two's and three's all the way through. The way it is now, everyone blitzes them, and then the only difference maker ends up being a quad that only a few sack up for.

I know, everyone has the answer and their opinion on how to make the tracks better. But it sure does seem like they are getting faster and faster every year, and that is not purely a result of the bikes being faster. Maybe, if the tracks were more technical and slower, riders wouldn't desire a 65 horsepower machine to ride them.
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gsxrcr28
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1/31/2014 12:39pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2014 12:43pm
My guess is two of the best riders in history probably know good whoops.

Where are their quotes so we can see their comments on them?
motogrady
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1/31/2014 12:47pm
I'd like to see them chop "em a bit, let them figure out something like this, but with dirt.

Big Lenny
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1/31/2014 12:54pm
motogrady wrote:
I'd like to see them chop "em a bit, let them figure out something like this, but with dirt. [img]http://www.basinski.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/20130404_151947_resized.jpg[/img]
I'd like to see them chop "em a bit, let them figure out something like this, but with dirt.

Or make them uneven...
IWreckALot
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1/31/2014 12:56pm
motogrady wrote:
I'd like to see them chop "em a bit, let them figure out something like this, but with dirt. [img]http://www.basinski.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/20130404_151947_resized.jpg[/img]
I'd like to see them chop "em a bit, let them figure out something like this, but with dirt.

This seems like a fun idea.

The Shop

huck
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1/31/2014 12:57pm
hellion wrote:
Really? The whoops are too steep says James. And Chad's been saying they're too big. And yet everyone complains that the tracks are too fast and...
Really? The whoops are too steep says James. And Chad's been saying they're too big. And yet everyone complains that the tracks are too fast and not technical enough. If you look at video's of races from the early 90's, you will see that quite often there were whoops that nobody could skim. Is it really necessary to make them in a way that lets most if not all blitz them. It seems to me it would be way more interesting if they were big enough and steep enough and long enough that guys all ended up having to find a rhythm of jumping two's and three's all the way through. The way it is now, everyone blitzes them, and then the only difference maker ends up being a quad that only a few sack up for.

I know, everyone has the answer and their opinion on how to make the tracks better. But it sure does seem like they are getting faster and faster every year, and that is not purely a result of the bikes being faster. Maybe, if the tracks were more technical and slower, riders wouldn't desire a 65 horsepower machine to ride them.
Cool story, bro
Mxdnusa
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1/31/2014 1:21pm
How about a bear in the whoops? Maybe crocodiles in between the quad? Lol.

I agree, the blitzing of the whoops gets old.
Crush
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1/31/2014 1:23pm
James saying they were too steep and Chad's comments were more about them being safe... Safe and small or big and dangerous aren't necessarily the same. You look at their practice tracks they're huge but they're round and have a good amount of dirt at the top to hit.

If they're steep there isn't much of a contact patch so it's easier for your front to go over and crash...
disbanded
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1/31/2014 1:24pm
He was simply talking about the shape of the whoops, not the size of them.

The steep angle has guys missing whoops and that isn't a good thing.

I would have to assume that James knows what he's talking about.
peelout
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1/31/2014 1:37pm
I fucking hate whoops. Always have. But these guys are the best, I want to see them ride the toughest most demanding tracks
S.Loyer
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1/31/2014 1:39pm
It's funny to me as Will Hahn was very upset they tamed them at Oakland.
GuyB
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1/31/2014 1:45pm
James had mentioned it in the Chatter Box that was up on Tuesday. He also mentioned it yesterday at press day.
Crash82
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1/31/2014 1:52pm
As a pro MXsim racer who has actually rode 2014 Supercross tracks, I would have to agree the whoops are too big. Dragonbacks suck also.
Big Lenny
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1/31/2014 1:56pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2014 1:57pm
Crash82 wrote:
As a pro MXsim racer who has actually rode 2014 Supercross tracks, I would have to agree the whoops are too big. Dragonbacks suck also.
Crash,.. give me a call...Brah..
davistld01
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1/31/2014 2:40pm
Wouldn't the steeper whoops get cupped out and sketchy as the race wore on moreso than if they weren't quite so steep? I mean, James and Chad are both whoop monsters, and I think they're more concerned with safety than them being difficult.
AS64
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1/31/2014 3:15pm
peelout wrote:
I fucking hate whoops. Always have. But these guys are the best, I want to see them ride the toughest most demanding tracks
x2 everything you said. The infamous Washougal whoops have claimed my ego and some expensive parts more than once. Hate them. With that said, I'd love to see a Washougal-esque whoops section in Supercross so guys can jump or skim them. Would be cool.
jonesaustin
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1/31/2014 4:30pm
hellion wrote:
Really? The whoops are too steep says James. And Chad's been saying they're too big. And yet everyone complains that the tracks are too fast and...
Really? The whoops are too steep says James. And Chad's been saying they're too big. And yet everyone complains that the tracks are too fast and not technical enough. If you look at video's of races from the early 90's, you will see that quite often there were whoops that nobody could skim. Is it really necessary to make them in a way that lets most if not all blitz them. It seems to me it would be way more interesting if they were big enough and steep enough and long enough that guys all ended up having to find a rhythm of jumping two's and three's all the way through. The way it is now, everyone blitzes them, and then the only difference maker ends up being a quad that only a few sack up for.

I know, everyone has the answer and their opinion on how to make the tracks better. But it sure does seem like they are getting faster and faster every year, and that is not purely a result of the bikes being faster. Maybe, if the tracks were more technical and slower, riders wouldn't desire a 65 horsepower machine to ride them.
hellion thanks for writing a lucid, well thought out examination of topic. consider yourself a rare breed on this forum.

i think it's an interesting thought. my take is, as whoops progressed and riders began to skim the tops (i.e. Bayle) the sport evolved in that direction to the point that all the riders became familiar with this method. with the speeds they're going now, transitioning towards the other direction could prove very dangerous.

having said that, i think you're dead on in thinking that tracks of yesteryear had something special, but again, so were the machines racing on them. i fear with 4 stroke technology at the point it is now, the evolution is just too far along to experience any real devolution. if i were accustomed to hitting the whoops today at the speeds/commitment these guys are, offsetting that with larger obstacles could become a serious risk.
Hank_Thrill
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1/31/2014 4:43pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2014 4:44pm
James was saying they were too steep in the Chatter Box for rider safety. He said if your front wheel misses one and impacts the next, a steeper whoop is much more unforgiving and more dangerous to the riders.
JeepnMike
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1/31/2014 9:25pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2014 9:26pm
They wouldn't be called whoops if they were supposed to be easy. Ask Alessi.

gsxrcr28
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1/31/2014 9:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2014 9:53pm
JeepnMike wrote:
They wouldn't be called whoops if they were supposed to be easy. Ask Alessi. [img]http://rookery.s3.amazonaws.com/979500/979732_97a1_1024x2000.jpg[/img]
They wouldn't be called whoops if they were supposed to be easy. Ask Alessi.

Yes, two of the fastest guys ever through the whoops need Tampax. Blink
Flip109
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1/31/2014 10:21pm
hellion wrote:
Really? The whoops are too steep says James. And Chad's been saying they're too big. And yet everyone complains that the tracks are too fast and...
Really? The whoops are too steep says James. And Chad's been saying they're too big. And yet everyone complains that the tracks are too fast and not technical enough. If you look at video's of races from the early 90's, you will see that quite often there were whoops that nobody could skim. Is it really necessary to make them in a way that lets most if not all blitz them. It seems to me it would be way more interesting if they were big enough and steep enough and long enough that guys all ended up having to find a rhythm of jumping two's and three's all the way through. The way it is now, everyone blitzes them, and then the only difference maker ends up being a quad that only a few sack up for.

I know, everyone has the answer and their opinion on how to make the tracks better. But it sure does seem like they are getting faster and faster every year, and that is not purely a result of the bikes being faster. Maybe, if the tracks were more technical and slower, riders wouldn't desire a 65 horsepower machine to ride them.
I agree. Let it be hard. It's supposed to be.
JeepnMike
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1/31/2014 10:24pm
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Yes, two of the fastest guys ever through the whoops need Tampax. Blink
Hey now.. They are for men OK? :D

Seriously though, through the years in my various sports I have been in, people have gotten more whiny about the challenges either in the dirt, or the obstacles. In BMX, MX, RC racing, everything is getting so overdone and over-groomed, it takes the challenge out of the sport or hobby. If the whoops are too challenging or aren't flowing right, maybe the riders should slow down? Maybe that is the track builders intent? Make them bigger and more challenging to slow them down, who knows.

If the riders are nervous about the whoops, I say cool!! Something to separate the field. We have been asking for this stuff!
jndmx
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2/1/2014 4:03am
If the whoops are very steep at the top they get cupped out and that is when they get dangerous.

Tall steeply peaked = not good
Big rounded tops = good


It has nothing to do with making it easier or harder.
gsxrcr28
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2/1/2014 5:12am
jndmx wrote:
If the whoops are very steep at the top they get cupped out and that is when they get dangerous. Tall steeply peaked = not good...
If the whoops are very steep at the top they get cupped out and that is when they get dangerous.

Tall steeply peaked = not good
Big rounded tops = good


It has nothing to do with making it easier or harder.
Exactly.

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