JMART probably out for SX

tprice07
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11/15/2018 7:24am
Ask Broc Tickle, Malcolm Stewart, Justin Bogle, Wil Hahn, and the numerous other riders that were booted out of the class after winning a regional title...
Ask Broc Tickle, Malcolm Stewart, Justin Bogle, Wil Hahn, and the numerous other riders that were booted out of the class after winning a regional title that had to take low to no pay 450 rides due to having limited options in the 450 class. Forced to take a pay cut after winning their titles.
Broc Tickle won his title in his 5th season on a 250. How many years did he have left? He earned a spot on RCH then...
Broc Tickle won his title in his 5th season on a 250. How many years did he have left? He earned a spot on RCH then eventually Red Bull KTM. Would he be given Dungey's spot at KTM had he gotten 2nd in points that year?





Malcolm Stewart turned pro in 2011 and won his title in 2014. Malcolm was lucky to land himself a spot on GEICO after struggling to find a ride after racing nationals the season prior for TLD. If he didn't land himself a spot on GEICO, he probably would have been a privateer in the 450 class the following year but instead won a title with GEICO and earned a spot on JGR. I doubt he would have got the opportunity to ride for JGR had he not won his title.





Justin Bogle turned pro at the end of 2011 and won his title in 2015. How many years left did he have in 250s? He landed himself a spot at RCH. Do you think his career would have gone differently if he lost the title to Davalos, stayed in 250s another year, then move up? There's no way of knowing if a 450 spot would have been available the following year... especially if he didn't win a title in 250s.





Wil Hahn turned pro in 2008 and didn't win a title until 2013. Unfortunately Wil suffered a few really bad injuries, but do you think his career would be any different had he lost to Musquin in 2013? Would he land himself a spot on a factory team if he went 8-9 years without winning a title, let alone a race up until that season?





It's a shame that these guys work their asses off for years to finally achieve a goal they've been working forwards their entire life, only to be forced to move up and land themselves on factory rides. Career suicide they say...
Tickle, Bogle, Malcolm struggled to make any money riding for a factory team. I'm not sure on Wil Hahn.
mattyhamz2
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11/15/2018 7:31am
early wrote:
Making the 250 SX class one series would solve these sandbagging/pay discrepency problems, it would also improve the competition in both classes.
UpTiTe wrote:
It would also cost a lot of riders their jobs too. In my opinion, they need to get rid of the point out rule all together...
It would also cost a lot of riders their jobs too.

In my opinion, they need to get rid of the point out rule all together. It's a professional class, how in the world can they sandbag? Having Riders point out is absolutely stupid.
I go back and forth with pointing out/age limit in the 250 classes. I'm still undecided on the issue. I see so many points on both sides of that argument.

With that said, 250SX should not count towards year end overall points. It's regional and you shouldn't be giving 2 guys first place points and so on down the line. But that's a completely different issue.
early
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11/15/2018 7:35am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2018 7:36am
I'd like to see teams employ 3 riders per class even if the 3rd guy is a contracted fill-in. Thats 6 riders per factory just like it is now for the most part. Running 3 instead of 4 outdoor 250 riders would make up some of the additional SX cost.

Edit: meant to quote uptite
selous scout
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11/15/2018 7:40am
What about R J Hampshire, don't forget about that kid think he can win a couple of rounds and stack up well .
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kb228
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11/15/2018 7:43am
More than likely. Theyre PC’s strongest
Tarz483
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11/15/2018 8:33am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2018 8:34am
This Definitely shows that there is a problem,
Do the people running the series talk about this kind of stuff?
Dont they have meeting at least once a year where like Ten or 12
People that have Been involved in the sport for a long time get together , like a board meeting.
I heard something like this but i dont remember exactly
Get together once a year or more than once a year ?
Like DC is one im not sure who else
Imagine being a fly on the wall in those meetings
Lightning78
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11/15/2018 8:34am
Winning a 250 Supercross title is one of the worst career moves in Supercross? Ok bud...
Ask Broc Tickle, Malcolm Stewart, Justin Bogle, Wil Hahn, and the numerous other riders that were booted out of the class after winning a regional title...
Ask Broc Tickle, Malcolm Stewart, Justin Bogle, Wil Hahn, and the numerous other riders that were booted out of the class after winning a regional title that had to take low to no pay 450 rides due to having limited options in the 450 class. Forced to take a pay cut after winning their titles.
Its more like their carers didnt pan out on a 450, had Hahn or Bogle done even moderately well without spending the majority of their time on the injured list they would more than likely be in a much different spot than where they are right now....whether thats good bad or indifferent is up to debate.

Tickle's 450 career hasnt been all that bad.....he finally got the chance of a lifetime in his career and we will never get to see how that panned out thanks to the piece of shit douchebags over at the FIM and WADA

Malcolm Stewart.....we will see how this year goes, as for the last few years thats kind of on himself for being really out of shape and overall lazy.....skipping the outdoors after winning his title was a dumb as shit move on his oart.

I agree though, there arent may 450 good paying rides but there are only so many of those and they're usually occupied by guys finishing in the top 4-5 consistently and being race winners, The simple way for those dudes to be paid after being "booted" out of the 250 coass is to win 450 races. Bogle did but trhat was in outdoors and he could have parlayed that into a good paying ride but he kept on getting injured whether it was his fault or not.
early
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11/15/2018 9:18am
Any of you guys think Bogle or Stewart would have won a 250 championship if it was 17 rounds and the field wasn't split in half and the available racers restricted?
devindavisphoto
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11/15/2018 9:26am
early wrote:
Any of you guys think Bogle or Stewart would have won a 250 championship if it was 17 rounds and the field wasn't split in half...
Any of you guys think Bogle or Stewart would have won a 250 championship if it was 17 rounds and the field wasn't split in half and the available racers restricted?
Split the races into three classes. 450, 250, and 250 Regional SX. The factory GEICO, PC, Star, TLD, etc riders will compete in a 250 class that's 17 rounds while the regional class is for rookies, privateers, or teams like Traders or JMC who can't really afford to hit all 17 rounds. You can point out of the 250 regional series, but eventually you will either move into the 250 or 450 class, where you can't point out. Is that completely unreasonable? I know that'll never happen, but it'll give veterans the opportunity to ride on a bike they're more comfortable with rather than competing on a more powerful machine. Obviously 450 class would hold more prestige and reward more money, but guys like Davalos wouldn't get shit on for riding the little bike. The regional series would still have top level talent, maybe require rookies to go through the shorter regional series, and have the opportunity to move up if they're on a good team or if they feel ready to tackle a 17 round series.
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early
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11/15/2018 9:50am
Split the races into three classes. 450, 250, and 250 Regional SX. The factory GEICO, PC, Star, TLD, etc riders will compete in a 250 class...
Split the races into three classes. 450, 250, and 250 Regional SX. The factory GEICO, PC, Star, TLD, etc riders will compete in a 250 class that's 17 rounds while the regional class is for rookies, privateers, or teams like Traders or JMC who can't really afford to hit all 17 rounds. You can point out of the 250 regional series, but eventually you will either move into the 250 or 450 class, where you can't point out. Is that completely unreasonable? I know that'll never happen, but it'll give veterans the opportunity to ride on a bike they're more comfortable with rather than competing on a more powerful machine. Obviously 450 class would hold more prestige and reward more money, but guys like Davalos wouldn't get shit on for riding the little bike. The regional series would still have top level talent, maybe require rookies to go through the shorter regional series, and have the opportunity to move up if they're on a good team or if they feel ready to tackle a 17 round series.
This would be a great idea but I'm not exactly sure where it would fit into the day and night program. I would love to see a East, Central, and West regional series for stepping up to the main 250/450 series. Ideally there would be some sort of machinery restrictions, like a spec tire and exhaust and max rpm.
devindavisphoto
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11/15/2018 9:54am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2018 9:55am
early wrote:
This would be a great idea but I'm not exactly sure where it would fit into the day and night program. I would love to see...
This would be a great idea but I'm not exactly sure where it would fit into the day and night program. I would love to see a East, Central, and West regional series for stepping up to the main 250/450 series. Ideally there would be some sort of machinery restrictions, like a spec tire and exhaust and max rpm.
TV is the biggest issue here, but you can do qualifying for the regional series during the day and run the main after the 450 LCQ.

Night program would be 250 heats, 450 heats, 250 lcq, 450 lcq, regional main, 250 main, 450 main. If you begin 30 minutes earlier it's enough to fit everything in there.
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Rab
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11/15/2018 10:28am
Broc Tickle won his title in his 5th season on a 250. How many years did he have left? He earned a spot on RCH then...
Broc Tickle won his title in his 5th season on a 250. How many years did he have left? He earned a spot on RCH then eventually Red Bull KTM. Would he be given Dungey's spot at KTM had he gotten 2nd in points that year?





Malcolm Stewart turned pro in 2011 and won his title in 2014. Malcolm was lucky to land himself a spot on GEICO after struggling to find a ride after racing nationals the season prior for TLD. If he didn't land himself a spot on GEICO, he probably would have been a privateer in the 450 class the following year but instead won a title with GEICO and earned a spot on JGR. I doubt he would have got the opportunity to ride for JGR had he not won his title.





Justin Bogle turned pro at the end of 2011 and won his title in 2015. How many years left did he have in 250s? He landed himself a spot at RCH. Do you think his career would have gone differently if he lost the title to Davalos, stayed in 250s another year, then move up? There's no way of knowing if a 450 spot would have been available the following year... especially if he didn't win a title in 250s.





Wil Hahn turned pro in 2008 and didn't win a title until 2013. Unfortunately Wil suffered a few really bad injuries, but do you think his career would be any different had he lost to Musquin in 2013? Would he land himself a spot on a factory team if he went 8-9 years without winning a title, let alone a race up until that season?





It's a shame that these guys work their asses off for years to finally achieve a goal they've been working forwards their entire life, only to be forced to move up and land themselves on factory rides. Career suicide they say...
Mookie won his Title in 2016, also after the fill in with TLD in 13’ outdoors he rode all 2014 with TLD in sx, moved to Geico in 15’ and got his first race win, then won his title in 16. And bogle also won his Title in 14, not 15... Get your facts right DDavis
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TDeath21
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11/15/2018 11:02am
What about Lawrence?
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gt80rider
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11/15/2018 11:17am
People keep forgetting about McElrath.
The past is a great predictor of the future. Dude has raced 250s for years, with no hard title runs. That is why people forget about him.

About JMart- ya, he has never been great at SX, mostly iffy at best. Probably best he sits out most of the SX series if he wants to make a true hard run outdoors this summer..... and his injury was massive, he may never be the same again...
Patrick461
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11/15/2018 11:22am
career 250 riders should not be allowed period
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RichieW13
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11/15/2018 12:53pm
early wrote:
If AC doesn't win a championship in '19 will he ever?
IceMan446 wrote:
I don't think he ever will. Even though I think he has the talent.

Dude just can't keep it together.
He came up 2 points short last year, and the guy that beat him moved on to 450. He raced all 10 rounds last year with no finish worse than 7th. There's no reason to think he can't win an SX championship.
3
RichieW13
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11/15/2018 1:02pm
early wrote:
Any of you guys think Bogle or Stewart would have won a 250 championship if it was 17 rounds and the field wasn't split in half...
Any of you guys think Bogle or Stewart would have won a 250 championship if it was 17 rounds and the field wasn't split in half and the available racers restricted?
This is an important point. It's easier to be a "star" 250 rider in SX because you are only competing against half the field.

Mookie is a 6th-11th place guy in the 450's right now. If he only had to race half the field, he would be on the fringe of the podium every week.
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RichieW13
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11/15/2018 1:10pm
TV is the biggest issue here, but you can do qualifying for the regional series during the day and run the main after the 450 LCQ...
TV is the biggest issue here, but you can do qualifying for the regional series during the day and run the main after the 450 LCQ.

Night program would be 250 heats, 450 heats, 250 lcq, 450 lcq, regional main, 250 main, 450 main. If you begin 30 minutes earlier it's enough to fit everything in there.
For Supercross, the broadcast is already 3 hours long for about 90 minutes of actual race time. Even if you assume 15 minutes of commercials per hour, that leaves 2 hours and 15 minutes of broad coast time, giving about 45 minutes of filler time in the current broadcast.
deanwhite51
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11/15/2018 1:14pm
Not one person has mentioned Hunter Lawrence...

I honestly can't wait to see the Geico Riders against the PC team for 2019!
Sexton, Lawrence and Craig Vs Forkner, AC92 and Davalos.

RichieW13
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11/15/2018 1:15pm
gt80rider wrote:
The past is a great predictor of the future. Dude has raced 250s for years, with no hard title runs. That is why people forget about...
The past is a great predictor of the future. Dude has raced 250s for years, with no hard title runs. That is why people forget about him.

About JMart- ya, he has never been great at SX, mostly iffy at best. Probably best he sits out most of the SX series if he wants to make a true hard run outdoors this summer..... and his injury was massive, he may never be the same again...
The past is not that good of a predictor.

Osborne was never close before he won. He had never even won a SX race until the year he won a championship. And by that point he was 27 years old.
WCRider
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11/15/2018 3:12pm Edited Date/Time 11/15/2018 3:17pm
Cant wait to watch Falk.
Tarz483
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11/15/2018 6:31pm
There are a Few guys that it seems would have benefited from more time in the 250 class , with that being said i have wondered why some didnt voluntarily drop back down to the 250 class in the outdoors, when they where struggling with the 450 class and probably could have been podium guys in the 250 class
11/15/2018 7:01pm
So is there any further news on Jeremy? And what happened? Broke?
kaptkaos
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11/16/2018 1:09pm
Mookie and Bogle won titles and barely got rides, they rode for free and kept their gear money. Mookie sat out for a while bc he could not get a paid ride.

Most of the TOP ELITE riders did go on to have Factory rides and good careers.

11/16/2018 1:30pm
So is there any further news on Jeremy? And what happened? Broke?
SKlein wrote:
https://racerxonline.com/2018/11/14/exhaust-jeremy-martin-was-never-the… Not the exact answer you were looking for, but some good information in the podcast.
Found out he's coming back from a spinal injury where he had a jig on his lower vertebrae, that's now removed and is just starting to ride MTB again but wont be ready for even East series as a title contender so skipping the SX to concentrate on motocross.
Hope he goes over and does a few MX2 GP rounds as warm up given he will have the time to.

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