JGR Going Yellow = Success?

davistld01
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Edited Date/Time 9/16/2017 4:23am
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any more successful than they've been the past couple of years?
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cali11
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9/28/2016 8:37pm
I think JB has a ton of talent! I'm not convinced 100% it's the Yamaha. Maybe he will gell better with the Suzuki. When JS went to the Suzuki he did look better. When was the last win a YZ450F had in SX? JS 2012? I do think Webb will win on it.
2StrokenIt!
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9/28/2016 8:44pm
davistld01 wrote:
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any...
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any more successful than they've been the past couple of years?
Where is this coming from?
kiwifan
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9/28/2016 9:38pm
I dont believe changing brands will make a drastic difference, if they changed riders...then thats another story

The Shop

oshow
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9/28/2016 10:56pm
davistld01 wrote:
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any...
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any more successful than they've been the past couple of years?
Where is this coming from?
Pretty solid
oshow
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9/28/2016 10:57pm
davistld01 wrote:
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any...
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any more successful than they've been the past couple of years?
Yes, the Suzuki's are better bikes for more people than the Yamaha.
adam8781
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9/28/2016 11:04pm
suzuki could use the r&d jgr has had alot of input on the 2014+ yzf bikes.

MX Guy
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9/28/2016 11:12pm
davistld01 wrote:
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any...
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any more successful than they've been the past couple of years?
oshow wrote:
Yes, the Suzuki's are better bikes for more people than the Yamaha.
This claim is a bit foggy. Barcia did well on Honda, went totally backwards on Yamaha, will Suzuki now drastically improve his results? There is no way to know for certain. It's no secret his technique is off when compared to guys beating him by a considerable margin. He might be more comfortable ergonomically but will he pull off multiple wins in a season? Be a consistent front runner? Only time will tell. I hope so, dude's fast, I do believe he's not placing where he should be.
JB 19
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9/29/2016 2:07am
Seems to me like the Suzuki is more of a pro style bike. Quick turning, responsive chassis ...etc I think I would fit Barcia's style.
51xc
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9/29/2016 4:25am
I think this change could be a new spark of motivation for the team and their riders. There are a lot of people who would prefer the rmz, at least for the tight sx tracks. but this is also something that will help out jgr in the long run when it comes to sign new big talents/ stars. let's face it, since js7 left jgr, no big name probably even considered to sign with jgr because of the yamaha. they got the facilities,staff and plenty of money to challenge any team.
machine
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9/29/2016 4:53am
Yamahas seem to work for taller riders, Brayton did well, Peiks had some success and look what Febvre does on one. It's very strange and I do think there is truth also, that JB hasn't done as well on one.
motomike137
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9/29/2016 4:56am
god, here we go again

some shit never gets old

this aint that shit
Alex814
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9/29/2016 4:56am
51xc wrote:
I think this change could be a new spark of motivation for the team and their riders. There are a lot of people who would prefer...
I think this change could be a new spark of motivation for the team and their riders. There are a lot of people who would prefer the rmz, at least for the tight sx tracks. but this is also something that will help out jgr in the long run when it comes to sign new big talents/ stars. let's face it, since js7 left jgr, no big name probably even considered to sign with jgr because of the yamaha. they got the facilities,staff and plenty of money to challenge any team.
You're pretty hard on the Yamaha man. Didn't Barcia choose to leave Honda for the bike? Cooper Webb and Chad Reed are pretty big names to go Yamaha 450 recently...
c0ncEpT
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9/29/2016 5:06am
kiwifan wrote:
I dont believe changing brands will make a drastic difference, if they changed riders...then thats another story
Agreed. 90% rider 10% bike
jonesaustin
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9/29/2016 5:12am
JB 19 wrote:
Seems to me like the Suzuki is more of a pro style bike. Quick turning, responsive chassis ...etc I think I would fit Barcia's style.
agreed, I can see Barcia excelling on yellow.
51xc
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9/29/2016 5:13am
51xc wrote:
I think this change could be a new spark of motivation for the team and their riders. There are a lot of people who would prefer...
I think this change could be a new spark of motivation for the team and their riders. There are a lot of people who would prefer the rmz, at least for the tight sx tracks. but this is also something that will help out jgr in the long run when it comes to sign new big talents/ stars. let's face it, since js7 left jgr, no big name probably even considered to sign with jgr because of the yamaha. they got the facilities,staff and plenty of money to challenge any team.
Alex814 wrote:
You're pretty hard on the Yamaha man. Didn't Barcia choose to leave Honda for the bike? Cooper Webb and Chad Reed are pretty big names to...
You're pretty hard on the Yamaha man. Didn't Barcia choose to leave Honda for the bike? Cooper Webb and Chad Reed are pretty big names to go Yamaha 450 recently...
I don't think barcia went to jgr to ride a yamaha. barcia left honda because they simply wouldn't allow him to change anything on the bike. he said he literally begged honda to change suspension etc but there was no way. at jgr they can do whatever they want with the bike as long as it's within the rules.
both, reed and webb had a lot success on the yamahas already, so that's a different story and I don't say that yamaha is a bad bike, it just doesn't seem to SUIT 2 out 3 riders.
omalley
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9/29/2016 5:14am
I think there's another factor involved-did JGR take a bike that was capable of winning and over-think/over-engineer the modification program and settings enough that they turned it into a turd?
oshow
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9/29/2016 5:24am
davistld01 wrote:
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any...
So...with Joe Gibbs Racing rumored to be switching OEM's from Yamaha to Suzuki for the seeable future, do you think their team riders will be any more successful than they've been the past couple of years?
oshow wrote:
Yes, the Suzuki's are better bikes for more people than the Yamaha.
MX Guy wrote:
This claim is a bit foggy. Barcia did well on Honda, went totally backwards on Yamaha, will Suzuki now drastically improve his results? There is no...
This claim is a bit foggy. Barcia did well on Honda, went totally backwards on Yamaha, will Suzuki now drastically improve his results? There is no way to know for certain. It's no secret his technique is off when compared to guys beating him by a considerable margin. He might be more comfortable ergonomically but will he pull off multiple wins in a season? Be a consistent front runner? Only time will tell. I hope so, dude's fast, I do believe he's not placing where he should be.
Nothing foggy, IMO the yellow bike is better, like the Red one is. He "should" do better on the Yellow bike than the Blue bike. Even if its just in his mind now.
oshow
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9/29/2016 5:29am
51xc wrote:
I think this change could be a new spark of motivation for the team and their riders. There are a lot of people who would prefer...
I think this change could be a new spark of motivation for the team and their riders. There are a lot of people who would prefer the rmz, at least for the tight sx tracks. but this is also something that will help out jgr in the long run when it comes to sign new big talents/ stars. let's face it, since js7 left jgr, no big name probably even considered to sign with jgr because of the yamaha. they got the facilities,staff and plenty of money to challenge any team.
Alex814 wrote:
You're pretty hard on the Yamaha man. Didn't Barcia choose to leave Honda for the bike? Cooper Webb and Chad Reed are pretty big names to...
You're pretty hard on the Yamaha man. Didn't Barcia choose to leave Honda for the bike? Cooper Webb and Chad Reed are pretty big names to go Yamaha 450 recently...
I think what he said is spot on.. Whether its true or not, it's reality.

Barcia chose to go to Yamaha over Honda , yes you are correct. he also chose a lot of "MONEY"

Reed chose "Factory Equipment" on someone else's "MONEY"

Cooper is young and chose what he knows and damn good "Money" I hope they can get the bike right for him, seems they have on his last 450 rides...
burn1986
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9/29/2016 5:31am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2016 5:32am
I wonder how JGR will deal with the factory? Seems like I remember Decoster having some challenges getting the stuff he needed, at times.

A lot of riders have transitioned to the Zook and done very well.
9/29/2016 5:32am
I think Barcia would do better on the zook for sure..I know factory bikes have very little in common with a stocker, but the one time I rode the late model yz450 on a track I thought to myself....awesome power...awesome suspension....terrible ergoes...terrible handling...not a good compromise of performance...I didn't like it at all...but hey...some I swear by the yami so...
9/29/2016 6:01am
Barcia has to try something different. He's got loads of talent and just isn't delivering the results. I think he would do well to ride yellow.
Zycki11
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9/29/2016 6:06am
I think Barcia would do better on the zook for sure..I know factory bikes have very little in common with a stocker, but the one time...
I think Barcia would do better on the zook for sure..I know factory bikes have very little in common with a stocker, but the one time I rode the late model yz450 on a track I thought to myself....awesome power...awesome suspension....terrible ergoes...terrible handling...not a good compromise of performance...I didn't like it at all...but hey...some I swear by the yami so...
If you hop on one for a day I can understand this thought process. The shrouds are what most think of as bulky, truth be told you don't notice it after a day. As for the handling, most are used to the Honda/Suzuki style of handling. The Yamaha has a different feel, but again, once you get the hang of it the bike handles very very well.
9/29/2016 6:56am
I can't stand Yamaha haters. Barcia will be great on a Suzuki if it happens, just like he is great on the Yamaha and was great on the Honda. His results were not incredibly better on the Honda 450 than they have been since. Couple of supercross wins, but he may have gotten those this year if he didn't weed it on an MTB. My guess is he will hate the Suzuki in a year or two as well. He's never going to be the next RV, RC, RD or whatever initials no matter what bike he rides. I do believe his high-revs are a factor, and I'm sure the YZF is also, but it's just not that cut and dry. He's just going to be the dude that's still 1 million times as talented as me, and a bit less than them. It's not the bike, it's just life.
davistld01
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9/29/2016 7:06am
Aside from the Barcia debacle, I can see where JGR could shine in their development of the Suzuki. Didn't they provide engine work & suspension for BTO a while back (2012-2013?) when they were running Suzukis and not KTM's? That would tell me that they are pretty familiar with what works and doesn't work on the yellow bikes...or at least they have a base line to build from. So, it's not like they're going into totally uncharted waters here.

I think they have gone as far with the Yamaha as they can, and still can't make it into a Championship caliber bike. I'm not hating on the Yamaha...since a lot of guys go fast on them, but with all the resources that JGR has you'd think they'd be at a higher level on them if the bikes were workable at that level from the get-go. Just my opinion...but I think the move to Suzuki had a lot more to do with Gibbs being frustrated than any additional money or support Suzuki might be giving them. I think it'll be a good move for them now, and going forward especially with a new bike design in the near future.
9/29/2016 7:20am
kiwifan wrote:
I dont believe changing brands will make a drastic difference, if they changed riders...then thats another story
c0ncEpT wrote:
Agreed. 90% rider 10% bike
Not...if you dont feel comfortable with a bikes ergos and handeling you will not be at the top step of the podium. I for one couldnt get past the handeling of the bike. I wouldnt say it felt like the pig it once was, but definetely not a well mannered bike.
portx
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9/29/2016 9:01am
davistld01 wrote:
Aside from the Barcia debacle, I can see where JGR could shine in their development of the Suzuki. Didn't they provide engine work & suspension for...
Aside from the Barcia debacle, I can see where JGR could shine in their development of the Suzuki. Didn't they provide engine work & suspension for BTO a while back (2012-2013?) when they were running Suzukis and not KTM's? That would tell me that they are pretty familiar with what works and doesn't work on the yellow bikes...or at least they have a base line to build from. So, it's not like they're going into totally uncharted waters here.

I think they have gone as far with the Yamaha as they can, and still can't make it into a Championship caliber bike. I'm not hating on the Yamaha...since a lot of guys go fast on them, but with all the resources that JGR has you'd think they'd be at a higher level on them if the bikes were workable at that level from the get-go. Just my opinion...but I think the move to Suzuki had a lot more to do with Gibbs being frustrated than any additional money or support Suzuki might be giving them. I think it'll be a good move for them now, and going forward especially with a new bike design in the near future.
The bike isn't the problem as many have mentioned already, it's the riders they have. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Barcia miss most of the past two SX seasons since he came to JGR? And didn't that put him behind the 8 ball for MX both years as well? Did he not ride well and beat everyone for a number of outdoor MX races in 2015? He couldn't get his act together in 2016 for some reason but did have some better rides toward the end of the season. If he does better on Suzuki, it will be a mental thing only feeling like it's a new start again or something like that. KR won on KTM and Suzuki and will likely win on Honda by year 2 at least, RC won on Kawi and Honda. Dungy won on Suzuki and KTM.
BobPA
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9/29/2016 9:17am Edited Date/Time 9/29/2016 9:18am
Not...if you dont feel comfortable with a bikes ergos and handeling you will not be at the top step of the podium. I for one couldnt...
Not...if you dont feel comfortable with a bikes ergos and handeling you will not be at the top step of the podium. I for one couldnt get past the handeling of the bike. I wouldnt say it felt like the pig it once was, but definetely not a well mannered bike.
This. Does not matter what brand of bike it is. If the rider is not comfortable with the ergos of the bike, then they will never be confident on it. Second guessing yourself on the bike is not the way to go fast.
MX Guy
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9/29/2016 9:23am
davistld01 wrote:
Aside from the Barcia debacle, I can see where JGR could shine in their development of the Suzuki. Didn't they provide engine work & suspension for...
Aside from the Barcia debacle, I can see where JGR could shine in their development of the Suzuki. Didn't they provide engine work & suspension for BTO a while back (2012-2013?) when they were running Suzukis and not KTM's? That would tell me that they are pretty familiar with what works and doesn't work on the yellow bikes...or at least they have a base line to build from. So, it's not like they're going into totally uncharted waters here.

I think they have gone as far with the Yamaha as they can, and still can't make it into a Championship caliber bike. I'm not hating on the Yamaha...since a lot of guys go fast on them, but with all the resources that JGR has you'd think they'd be at a higher level on them if the bikes were workable at that level from the get-go. Just my opinion...but I think the move to Suzuki had a lot more to do with Gibbs being frustrated than any additional money or support Suzuki might be giving them. I think it'll be a good move for them now, and going forward especially with a new bike design in the near future.
portx wrote:
The bike isn't the problem as many have mentioned already, it's the riders they have. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Barcia miss most of...
The bike isn't the problem as many have mentioned already, it's the riders they have. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Barcia miss most of the past two SX seasons since he came to JGR? And didn't that put him behind the 8 ball for MX both years as well? Did he not ride well and beat everyone for a number of outdoor MX races in 2015? He couldn't get his act together in 2016 for some reason but did have some better rides toward the end of the season. If he does better on Suzuki, it will be a mental thing only feeling like it's a new start again or something like that. KR won on KTM and Suzuki and will likely win on Honda by year 2 at least, RC won on Kawi and Honda. Dungy won on Suzuki and KTM.
@davis - I hear what you're saying. A fresh start over there at JGR seems to be what everyone involved needs. From riders to staff to OEM's (both Yam and Suz could use one).

@portx - I hear what you're saying as well. It's not logical to put all the blame on the bike, Barcia is obviously not doing what other dudes are doing on the bike, period. He needs some guidance in the technique department before he will ever be assumed championship caliber, imo.

outerlimits
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9/29/2016 9:28am
portx wrote:
The bike isn't the problem as many have mentioned already, it's the riders they have. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Barcia miss most of...
The bike isn't the problem as many have mentioned already, it's the riders they have. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Barcia miss most of the past two SX seasons since he came to JGR? And didn't that put him behind the 8 ball for MX both years as well? Did he not ride well and beat everyone for a number of outdoor MX races in 2015? He couldn't get his act together in 2016 for some reason but did have some better rides toward the end of the season. If he does better on Suzuki, it will be a mental thing only feeling like it's a new start again or something like that. KR won on KTM and Suzuki and will likely win on Honda by year 2 at least, RC won on Kawi and Honda. Dungy won on Suzuki and KTM.
This ^^^

However I'll say that the bike is probably different enough with the handling and the c.g. that you either love it or you don't. Romain Febvre is not a big guy at all and he gels with it very well, but I think his team is able to do different things to the bike than the JGR guys. I read where they start out with a stock frame, but use different length swing arms and different linkages. The motor is hopped up, but also smoothed out and he uses a 4 speed for most of his racing. Barcia is a rev it till the end kind of guy and a 4 speed would probably do him wonders, but I don't know if that is something they are allowed to do with the U.S. bikes....maybe. As mentioned above, Webb has had no problem being competitive on the bike and he is a little guy and doesn't ride it all that much so far. Could be that he is just accustomed to the 250F and most things transfer over.

Barcia was 3rd last year in the nationals (was 2nd until the last race) and I think 4th or 5th this year. As noted he has been injured during that last two supercross seasons and it has carried over into outdoors. Seriously though, the guy is talented but is he ever really going to do better than 3rd, 4th, 5th? Is Nicolleti or Peick going to be able to do better than they have? I feel like they have all just reached their plateau with the current level of competition out there. Barcia would probably do a lot better if he could just mellow out a bit, try and be smooth. Look at old man Reed, he's not going to win anything, but at 33 or 34 the guy just knows how to be smooth and stay competitive. With Webb coming up, it's probably just one more position that Barcia is going to get kicked down to.

Honestly, I don't even think it's 10% bike anymore. If one bike was even 5% better than another, then all the privateers would be on it, but you don't see that.

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