JGR: "B-level" Team?

Factory in my book.

I said that. I think that played into Barcia not being focused. I don’t believe they are a B level team. They have the facility, staff, resources and commitment.

I believe some of their riders have not put forth the same level of commitment. Barcia being one example.

A level $, further down the alphabet in results.

Look at the quality of riders that they have had. JS7, JB10, JB 51, WP34, JG 33, JH 1. Who else am I missing? The shop rivals KTM’s shop and probably is able to make any custom part from a block of anything. Most factory teams in the US can’t do that and rely on Japan to give it to them. Me thinks they are a A level factory team.

Milsaps. I think he got 2nd that year though. Dungey was hurt.

Certainly some bad luck for them....They just have never really had a bike when it was better then the others.

Some of the things ive heard about joe gibbs and the effort he puts into the race shops of his nascar team would suggest he defenitally isnt a "B" team. I read an interview with j-bone (i think) that said they are getting much more help and benefits from suzuki now that they are a factory team. I think they used to do all their own testing, and r&d without any help from the factory last year.

davistld01 wrote:

It was mentioned in a thread below about Justin Barcia's transformation lately aboard the factory Yamaha YZ450F that it ...more

davistld01 wrote:

It was mentioned in a thread below about Justin Barcia's transformation lately aboard the factory Yamaha YZ450F that it probably messed with JB51's head that JGR was a "B-level" team. Is it? I mean, the team now is officially the home of the Yoshimura Factory Suzuki racing effort, and I imagined them being as close to a Factory Yamaha team as one could be for years. However, they've never seem to be able to bring the best out of their riders...and even with all their available financing, and their ability to fabricate almost anything on the bike they chose to...they have always fielded a team of riders that were good...but not great.

So...can Joe Gibbs Racing team still be considered a B-team?

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The Yamaha was in the heads of all the riders.

JGR was new to the Suzuki when Barcia was there right? They needed time to learn the bike. Factory support from Suzuki is never “great”.

And yes, that’s what JGR is, they are a private team with Factory backing. But that shouldn’t get in any rider’s head. And it certainly aint “B” team.

1. Factory Team (ie: HRC Honda)
2. Factory Support (ie: JGR Suzuki)
3. Satellite Team (ie: FC Honda)
4. Private Team (ie: CR22)

I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but after years of sub-standard results regardless of massive resources and some pretty decent riding talent. It's fairly obvious to me where the problem is. Lack of good management. Jeremy Albrecht, although a successful mechanic a decade ago, is clearly out of his depth in the critical role of managing all the working pieces that turn men and machines into winners. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but after so many seasons,he would seem to be the common denominator.

I don’t think it’s ever been a B team.

leighracer wrote:

I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but after years of sub-standard results regardless of massive resources and some ...more

leighracer wrote:

I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but after years of sub-standard results regardless of massive resources and some pretty decent riding talent. It's fairly obvious to me where the problem is. Lack of good management. Jeremy Albrecht, although a successful mechanic a decade ago, is clearly out of his depth in the critical role of managing all the working pieces that turn men and machines into winners. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but after so many seasons,he would seem to be the common denominator.

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You have no idea how hard it is to win..

Expespecially within a budget.

leighracer wrote:

I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but after years of sub-standard results regardless of massive resources and some ...more

leighracer wrote:

I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but after years of sub-standard results regardless of massive resources and some pretty decent riding talent. It's fairly obvious to me where the problem is. Lack of good management. Jeremy Albrecht, although a successful mechanic a decade ago, is clearly out of his depth in the critical role of managing all the working pieces that turn men and machines into winners. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but after so many seasons,he would seem to be the common denominator.

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I 100% agree with you. Being a great mechanic doesn’t make you a great manager. Just like being a great NFL, NBA or any other major sport athlete doesn’t mean you’ll be a great coach. There are things JA does well, but managing a team isn’t one of them.

If Roger Decoster was the manager at JGR, they would have had 2-3 championships already.

In a post race interview, Peick mentioned some things that they have some parts and setup resources this year thanks to Suzuki that they didn't have last year. He attributed some of his success to that. If it wasn't "factory level" last year, they certainly are now.

leighracer wrote:

I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but after years of sub-standard results regardless of massive resources and some ...more

leighracer wrote:

I'll probably get flamed for this comment, but after years of sub-standard results regardless of massive resources and some pretty decent riding talent. It's fairly obvious to me where the problem is. Lack of good management. Jeremy Albrecht, although a successful mechanic a decade ago, is clearly out of his depth in the critical role of managing all the working pieces that turn men and machines into winners. I don't mean this disrespectfully, but after so many seasons,he would seem to be the common denominator.

...more

Racer111 wrote:

I 100% agree with you. Being a great mechanic doesn’t make you a great manager. Just like being a great NFL, NBA or any other ...more

Racer111 wrote:

I 100% agree with you. Being a great mechanic doesn’t make you a great manager. Just like being a great NFL, NBA or any other major sport athlete doesn’t mean you’ll be a great coach. There are things JA does well, but managing a team isn’t one of them.

If Roger Decoster was the manager at JGR, they would have had 2-3 championships already.

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that s bull , imo . how many years was roger at suzuki before he won a championship . its as simple as ,when roger didnt have the bike to win .he got the best rider ,but even MC couldnt win the championship with Roger. then when suzuki had the bike ,it would take a few years till Roger had a rider that could win ,RC ! the rider is the most important thing . Fact is JGR has only ever had one rider who could win a championship ,thats JS 7 .but the bike was nt good enough .Barica was never going to be a championship level guy , when RV and Dungey were still racing . on any bike you put him on .

GuyB wrote:

I don’t think it’s ever been a B team.

GuyB wrote:

I don’t think it’s ever been a B team.

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I think maybe what we have is a "D" level poster.

Wasn't JGR the defacto factory team for a few years until Yamaha started a factory effort back up when CR22 started riding for them again in '16-17?

Why does everyone bring up jgr's resources and say they can make any part they want?? Pretty sure ktm and Kawasaki have access to a couple of cnc machines at their shop but no one talks about that.

In this day and age the technology is a pretty equal playing field. Everyone has access to data sensors and cnc machines but lets face it there isn't much more data one can take from a dirtbike that's already available. Dumb argument to say they are ahead of anyone if you ask me.

pbody wrote:

Wasn't JGR the defacto factory team for a few years until Yamaha started a factory effort back up when CR22 started riding for ...more

pbody wrote:

Wasn't JGR the defacto factory team for a few years until Yamaha started a factory effort back up when CR22 started riding for them again in '16-17?

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No. They were basically a satellite team.

diz330 wrote:

Why does everyone bring up jgr's resources and say they can make any part they want?? Pretty sure ktm and Kawasaki have access ...more

diz330 wrote:

Why does everyone bring up jgr's resources and say they can make any part they want?? Pretty sure ktm and Kawasaki have access to a couple of cnc machines at their shop but no one talks about that.

In this day and age the technology is a pretty equal playing field. Everyone has access to data sensors and cnc machines but lets face it there isn't much more data one can take from a dirtbike that's already available. Dumb argument to say they are ahead of anyone if you ask me.

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In motorsports, politics matter. It’s a little talked about edge that the factory teams will always hold. (Everyone focuses on budget & tech)

I know for a fact that JGR had some pretty legitimate complaints of rules violations during their Yamaha years. Their words fell on deaf ears. Had Factory Honda or Factory Kawi made those exact same complaints, action would’ve been taken.

They are in a better position now that they have mfg backing.

Is Factory Yamaha a B team because of Coopers results and inability to gel with the bike and get results (if you remove Barcia from the equation?
What makes an "A" team? Experienced leadership:
To provide the best equipment
To get the best out of a rider and understand what they need to be successful- training, setup

I think many well funded factory and factory support teams can be an A team, but that's not defined by direct ownership of a team by a motorcycle manufacturer.

JGR is as I see Weston Peick and the long term improvement they have been a part of.

A level team easily. It's a combination of dumb luck and equipment vs. riders. They tried to buy a championship with JS7. Unfortunately, he already peaked and that ship sailed. They have the equipment, resources, staffing and dedication, but I think their issue has strictly been with matching the bike with the rider and those Suzuki's aren't going away anytime soon.

I think it's unfair to call them a B-team. But i do have to say that i'm surprised that people doesn't question their program more. So many failed riders and i don't believe it's all because of bad luck.

The usual thing we hear about JGR is that their resources are huge and they can manufacture anything. Maybe they tinker with the bikes too much? I know Matthes have talked about that in the past, Weston Peick mentioned that the Factory support for this year is a huge thing, Barcia had issues with the JGR Yamaha being too aggressive/fast etc.

I don't know, these are just observations from the outside. I want them to have success, they seem to be a bunch of good people but sometimes i just scratch my head. Like with the signing of Hill. I mean it has been a massive failure. They basically bought a red number 1 plate for one weekend. Something is obviously wrong with him. I have read that some would put him on a 450 for the east rounds, i disagree. I would never reward Hill with east coast 450 racing after this start to the season.

JS7/JB51/JH1 Hmmm?

Definitely not B-level, but I wonder how much "guidance" they had in all those years as a non-factory team.

Money and resources can do a lot of things, but they can never replace knowledge. And by knowledge I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, because I know JGR has a lot of intelligent people on their program, but I mean platform and setup knowledge. Something I'm sure is a lot different for a factory team when you have a whole team of engineers working with you that likely have years of experience with a certain bike and a whole list of setup sheets ready to go before a rider swings his first leg over a bike.

I really think JGR thought they could do it the NASCAR way where power is key and pretty much everything is custom built anyway, but along the way realized that the traditional (factory) team structure is a much safer bet.

This is a stupid post and kinda degrading to everyone at jgr obviously its factory its suzukis only team ...a team like 151 is a b team

brimx153 wrote:

that s bull , imo . how many years was roger at suzuki before he won a championship . its as simple as ,when roger didnt have ...more

brimx153 wrote:

that s bull , imo . how many years was roger at suzuki before he won a championship . its as simple as ,when roger didnt have the bike to win .he got the best rider ,but even MC couldnt win the championship with Roger. then when suzuki had the bike ,it would take a few years till Roger had a rider that could win ,RC ! the rider is the most important thing . Fact is JGR has only ever had one rider who could win a championship ,thats JS 7 .but the bike was nt good enough .Barica was never going to be a championship level guy , when RV and Dungey were still racing . on any bike you put him on .

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"how many years was roger at suzuki before he won a championship?"

Answer- three years. Roger joined Suzuki in 96, Albertyn won in 99.

While “the team”, may be considered an “A” team, how it’s managed may very well be the issue.

Perhaps many riders think JGR means Just Getting Rich. Who do we blame for that perception?

Bring Roger or Mitch to JGR and you will be on to something.

This is not NASCAR. It is 80% RIDER, 20% BIKE. In nascar, there are 50 year olds winning championships because it’s 95% CAR, 5% DRIVER

It is the combo of (bike+rider)+(team+funding+access to parts)

I'm my view JGR has only taken on already lost riders, besides Hill, or medioker riders. And then signing up bikes that is least of interest where only a handful riders in the world could make it on.

So not fair to say it is teams fault. If they had funding to afford better riders and factory support from Honda, husky/ktm or Kawi I think it would be difficult.

oldnwise wrote:

While “the team”, may be considered an “A” team, how it’s managed may very well be the issue.

Perhaps many riders think JGR ...more

oldnwise wrote:

While “the team”, may be considered an “A” team, how it’s managed may very well be the issue.

Perhaps many riders think JGR means Just Getting Rich. Who do we blame for that perception?

Bring Roger or Mitch to JGR and you will be on to something.

This is not NASCAR. It is 80% RIDER, 20% BIKE. In nascar, there are 50 year olds winning championships because it’s 95% CAR, 5% DRIVER

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Sorry that is not a fair statement. Could say it is 80% bike and 20% rider. Both need to gel.

Barcia success at A1 is 100% bike(+rider)-related.

JMR1976 wrote:

JS7/JB51/JH1 Hmmm?

JMR1976 wrote:

JS7/JB51/JH1 Hmmm?

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Didn't Justin Hill come out with a statement that the bike is excellent and the results he has achieved this year are 100% on him, not the bike?

JB51 was a punk that was humbled when he didn't have a ride for MEC.

JS7 is a burnout. Millsaps was consistently getting top 5 results while JS7 was complaining that the bike was junk.