JB10 Kick Starting His Honda. Why?

make1go
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make1go 2/25/2018 11:50pm
2/25/2018 11:50pm
Lightning78 wrote:
A few years ago it wouldve been thought absurd to ADD 7 pounds to a high level sx race bike....plus the extra drag on the engine...
A few years ago it wouldve been thought absurd to ADD 7 pounds to a high level sx race bike....plus the extra drag on the engine at that level is probably pretty noticeable....aside from crashing its not THAT big of a deal to kickstart your bike weve been doing it since the beginning of time with mx bikes and all of a sudden its blasphemy to not have it as standard equipment on all bikes? I still dont agree with the electric start philosiphy but thats just me and ive never minded kicking my bike. I spent a day riding the piss outta a 2014 KTM300 with electric start and didnt think it was such a remarkable thing to have....kickstarting my bike has always been a part of riding for me
Maybe you never owned one of the early gen 450s. A simple tip over and your race was done and you were often to exhausted to ride back to the pits..after 10 mins of kicking..
make1go
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make1go 2/25/2018 11:59pm
2/25/2018 11:59pm
NorCal 50+ wrote:
In other words- electric start is too heavy for SX? SMH. What's the point?I guess KTM guys either have lighter bikes or choose to deal with...
In other words- electric start is too heavy for SX? SMH. What's the point?I guess KTM guys either have lighter bikes or choose to deal with the extra 7 POUNDS. Unsure
make1go wrote:
Id say its rider preference, to some the weight matters others it doesnt... Every other guy here says once your moving you never notice it but...
Id say its rider preference, to some the weight matters others it doesnt...
Every other guy here says once your moving you never notice it but they are hardly riding at braytons level...

For myself in the woods ive got 250 4t 250 2t 220 2t 200 2t and the 220 wins has some of the grunt of the bigger cc with the light weight. I feel i can pull trials like manuvers in the super tight and tricky stuff on it..but im no jonny walker..
NorCal 50+ wrote:
I rode my RMZ450 on tight trails with rocks for about three minutes before I turned around and went back to a moto track and never...
I rode my RMZ450 on tight trails with rocks for about three minutes before I turned around and went back to a moto track and never tried that again. No fun, too top-heavy and bulky. But I was raised on two-strokes. I wouldn't ride anything bigger than a 250 four-stroke off-road, but 450s always seemed too heavy for me anyhow.
Lol tell me about it. I bought an ex pros yz450, took it into rocky steepish trails, thing damm near killed me. Took me 2 mths of softening everything before i dared try that again...in the end i sold it after a year just to much of a handful for the mostly tight single track i like.

tmauto769
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tmauto769 2/26/2018 3:40am
2/26/2018 3:40am
TallonT911 wrote:
weight savings since they dont run ti bolts and the engine actually runs a little more 'free' without the starter motor
The engine runs the same with or without the e start. I put it on my '17 and removed all of the associated kick starter parts.
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Paul333 2/26/2018 5:25am
2/26/2018 5:25am
Dirty Points wrote:
Whatever the case, the dude is riding great.

He's a few days short of 34, and sits 4th in the points on a non-factory bike.
I agree, JB10 & Moto Concepts should be very proud of their season so far.

Doing it with only works Showa suspension as well, as far as we know.

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H4L
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H4L 2/26/2018 6:20am
2/26/2018 6:20am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2018 6:28am
Marcello10 wrote:
I’m talking about Honda in general, MCR doesn’t have factory support, they do motors by themselves and their bikes aren’t really close to the HRC ones...
I’m talking about Honda in general, MCR doesn’t have factory support, they do motors by themselves and their bikes aren’t really close to the HRC ones in terms of new parts and stuff. It’s common knowledge that on their production level CRF they’re not at the level of KTM and Husqvarna (wich is the top) in terms of bike weight, there’s a slight difference that you can definitely fell
Rode a 17 1/2 KTM450sxf FE last year & it feels as light as an 18 CRF450r ridden while in motion. Honda engineers did a very good job on distributing & centralizing the weight of the 17-18 models. I agree with some of the test shoot outs on that they do feel light while riding on the newer CRF450r's.

According to KR94's mechanic the 17 race bike was not far off from the standard showroom model & they even added the ES last yr. to the bike. I get that they do use Ti & carbon fiber parts wherever possible, but it's still basically the same platform. That being said it would be interesting to see the HRC 94 & 14 bikes weight vs. JB10's bike.

https://motocross.transworld.net/videos/behind-bars-ken-roczens-honda-h…
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mx317 2/26/2018 6:35am
2/26/2018 6:35am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2018 6:38am
Drag is not an issue with the e-start on these models. They use a one-way starter clutch that is only engaged when the starter spins. The starter is not spinning unless you are starting it. It probably has less drag than the kickstarter idler gear and kick start gear itself which spins all the time.
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tprice07 2/26/2018 8:25am
2/26/2018 8:25am
Marcello10 wrote:
I’m talking about Honda in general, MCR doesn’t have factory support, they do motors by themselves and their bikes aren’t really close to the HRC ones...
I’m talking about Honda in general, MCR doesn’t have factory support, they do motors by themselves and their bikes aren’t really close to the HRC ones in terms of new parts and stuff. It’s common knowledge that on their production level CRF they’re not at the level of KTM and Husqvarna (wich is the top) in terms of bike weight, there’s a slight difference that you can definitely fell
H4L wrote:
Rode a 17 1/2 KTM450sxf FE last year & it feels as light as an 18 CRF450r ridden while in motion. Honda engineers did a very...
Rode a 17 1/2 KTM450sxf FE last year & it feels as light as an 18 CRF450r ridden while in motion. Honda engineers did a very good job on distributing & centralizing the weight of the 17-18 models. I agree with some of the test shoot outs on that they do feel light while riding on the newer CRF450r's.

According to KR94's mechanic the 17 race bike was not far off from the standard showroom model & they even added the ES last yr. to the bike. I get that they do use Ti & carbon fiber parts wherever possible, but it's still basically the same platform. That being said it would be interesting to see the HRC 94 & 14 bikes weight vs. JB10's bike.

https://motocross.transworld.net/videos/behind-bars-ken-roczens-honda-h…
I don't believe Brayton's bike has Ti parts on it like the HRC bikes.

My opinion means squat, but I think HRC would kick Justin some factory parts before they would put him on the HRC team. HRC doesn't actually need to have bikes out there for sponsorship agreements. No energy drink or outside sponsors that I'm aware of.

It would make sense for them to do some testing with him to keep improving the bike.

I do wonder if they will offer him a deal for nationals. I know they wanted him to last year but he turned it down. I'd imagine Craig gets the spot for outdoors again.

What if LaRocco gets the fill-in ride just to spite Chad Reed haha. Obviously that would never happen but I think up until last year he was still hopping on the bike and testing, right?
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TallonT911 2/26/2018 10:45am
2/26/2018 10:45am
TallonT911 wrote:
weight savings since they dont run ti bolts and the engine actually runs a little more 'free' without the starter motor
tmauto769 wrote:
The engine runs the same with or without the e start. I put it on my '17 and removed all of the associated kick starter parts.
Maybe to us normal folk but at the elite level you can tell. I went to Berlutti's (Braytons mechanic) house to pick up a motor he rebuilt for me and he said thats why so I'll believe it haha Revs quicker without the starter motor i guess
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MBR 2/26/2018 11:09am
2/26/2018 11:09am
H4L wrote:
I don't think HRC Honda is to worried about extra weight with the starter since they run a 2nd unit in case of a possible crash...
I don't think HRC Honda is to worried about extra weight with the starter since they run a 2nd unit in case of a possible crash.

https://youtu.be/AQEUq6-zgOI?t=225
That is fake news. HRC is using second start BUTTON under the tank, so in the case of the crash and broken starter button (Roczen MEC 2016) the rider can start up fine.
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rikhek 2/26/2018 11:56am
2/26/2018 11:56am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2018 12:02pm
Underground wrote:
Didn't see it but maybe it's a weight opition he took
For the record, I thought it went without saying a fucking moron would know it's for weight savings. I thought Honda recast the cases just like KTM did the second year that e-start was available (i.e., 2014) which didn't allow installation of a kick starter on their MX bikes. I didn't realize they just blanked opening in the casting for the kick starter.

Too bad they didn't follow KTM's lead as every little bit helps reduce weight.. Again, another failed action to save money and minimize weight. And Honda as well as all the other Jap manufacturers wonder why they're getting clobbered by KTM in sales and on the track.....
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kiwifan 2/26/2018 12:29pm
2/26/2018 12:29pm
Underground wrote:
Didn't see it but maybe it's a weight opition he took
rikhek wrote:
For the record, I thought it went without saying a fucking moron would know it's for weight savings. I thought Honda recast the cases just like...
For the record, I thought it went without saying a fucking moron would know it's for weight savings. I thought Honda recast the cases just like KTM did the second year that e-start was available (i.e., 2014) which didn't allow installation of a kick starter on their MX bikes. I didn't realize they just blanked opening in the casting for the kick starter.

Too bad they didn't follow KTM's lead as every little bit helps reduce weight.. Again, another failed action to save money and minimize weight. And Honda as well as all the other Jap manufacturers wonder why they're getting clobbered by KTM in sales and on the track.....
Perhaps you can run a motorcycle business much better than Honda, off you go then...the Japanese (not Jap) bikes getting closer and closer (Honda after all won a few shootouts last year and this year) and are likely taking sales off KTM (caveat: I have no evidence of this hence the word likely)
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peelout 2/26/2018 12:47pm
2/26/2018 12:47pm
Brayton was given an choice between a factory ECU and a kick-starter
inthebadboycorner 2/26/2018 2:30pm
2/26/2018 2:30pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Whatever the case, the dude is riding great.

He's a few days short of 34, and sits 4th in the points on a non-factory bike.
Yes, he is doing a great job considering his age, not much younger than Reed but still killing it.
Certainly an underdog.
My new favourite rider.
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tmauto769 2/26/2018 3:02pm
2/26/2018 3:02pm
TallonT911 wrote:
weight savings since they dont run ti bolts and the engine actually runs a little more 'free' without the starter motor
tmauto769 wrote:
The engine runs the same with or without the e start. I put it on my '17 and removed all of the associated kick starter parts.
TallonT911 wrote:
Maybe to us normal folk but at the elite level you can tell. I went to Berlutti's (Braytons mechanic) house to pick up a motor he...
Maybe to us normal folk but at the elite level you can tell. I went to Berlutti's (Braytons mechanic) house to pick up a motor he rebuilt for me and he said thats why so I'll believe it haha Revs quicker without the starter motor i guess
As MX317 posted above, there is a one way starter clutch in the estart kit, nothing more is turning with it than without it, well actually as he said too, the kickstarter idler gear is turning, so technically it should be more drag without the estart, but like I said, no difference to me what so ever. I can't see HRC just slapping an estart on their bikes if it hinders them power wise. With that being said, I didn't notice the weight difference the kit added, that I hear a lot of people crying about, to them I say eat a burger once and awhile.
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peelout 2/26/2018 3:25pm
2/26/2018 3:25pm
make1go wrote:
Id say its rider preference, to some the weight matters others it doesnt... Every other guy here says once your moving you never notice it but...
Id say its rider preference, to some the weight matters others it doesnt...
Every other guy here says once your moving you never notice it but they are hardly riding at braytons level...

For myself in the woods ive got 250 4t 250 2t 220 2t 200 2t and the 220 wins has some of the grunt of the bigger cc with the light weight. I feel i can pull trials like manuvers in the super tight and tricky stuff on it..but im no jonny walker..
NorCal 50+ wrote:
I rode my RMZ450 on tight trails with rocks for about three minutes before I turned around and went back to a moto track and never...
I rode my RMZ450 on tight trails with rocks for about three minutes before I turned around and went back to a moto track and never tried that again. No fun, too top-heavy and bulky. But I was raised on two-strokes. I wouldn't ride anything bigger than a 250 four-stroke off-road, but 450s always seemed too heavy for me anyhow.
make1go wrote:
Lol tell me about it. I bought an ex pros yz450, took it into rocky steepish trails, thing damm near killed me. Took me 2 mths...
Lol tell me about it. I bought an ex pros yz450, took it into rocky steepish trails, thing damm near killed me. Took me 2 mths of softening everything before i dared try that again...in the end i sold it after a year just to much of a handful for the mostly tight single track i like.

is that a fcukin' WOOD rear fender?!
Ebs
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Ebs 2/26/2018 3:32pm
2/26/2018 3:32pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2018 3:35pm
In the world of carbon fiber this and titanium that, 7lbs is a huge weight reduction.
make1go
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make1go 2/26/2018 3:51pm
2/26/2018 3:51pm
peelout wrote:
is that a fcukin' WOOD rear fender?!
Bamboo actually
after all i live im sea....

Shocked

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make1go
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make1go 2/26/2018 3:58pm
2/26/2018 3:58pm
peelout wrote:
is that a fcukin' WOOD rear fender?!
Bamboo actually
after all i live im sea....

Shocked
make1go
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make1go 2/26/2018 3:59pm
2/26/2018 3:59pm
peelout wrote:
is that a fcukin' WOOD rear fender?!
Bamboo actually
after all i live im sea....
Im starting a new company
Selling re-newable fenders.

Shocked
Ryno23
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Ryno23 2/27/2018 7:54am
2/27/2018 7:54am
Ebs wrote:
In the world of carbon fiber this and titanium that, 7lbs is a huge weight reduction.
Yes, it is. And I wonder where that puts them to minimum weight rule???

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