Is this the same as Rotella?

Related:
Create New Tag

12/5/2020 9:48 AM

At Costco today.
Photo

|

12/5/2020 9:53 AM

Kirkland Signature Heavy Duty Diesel 15W-40 is blended by Warren Distribution (WD) which is the same oil marketer that makes Walmart's Super Tech brand. Warren Distribution blends Mag 1 oil which is their own house brand. WD also blends motor oils for major retail chain stores like Meijer in the midwest, and they also blend AmazonBasics oils. Overall, Warren Distribution blends pretty solid motor oils with decent additive packages.

|

12/5/2020 9:55 AM

You need to know EXACTLY what ratings you're lookig for...API...JASO(sp?)...etc. I remember hearing they changed the levels of Zinc or something like that in one of the Rotella products; so, which one of the Rotellas you use matters.

Good luck!

|

I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

12/5/2020 10:03 AM

TeamGreen wrote:

You need to know EXACTLY what ratings you're lookig for...API...JASO(sp?)...etc. I remember hearing they changed the levels of Zinc or something like that in one of the Rotella products; so, which one of the Rotellas you use matters.

Good luck!

T4

|

12/5/2020 10:09 AM

TeamGreen wrote:

You need to know EXACTLY what ratings you're lookig for...API...JASO(sp?)...etc. I remember hearing they changed the levels of Zinc or something like that in one of the Rotella products; so, which one of the Rotellas you use matters.

Good luck!

wwoberg wrote:

T4

Rotella T4? Is it still the same?

As for the ratings I was talking about: pretty sure that info is in the owners manual...I'll go check on-line...

|

I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

12/5/2020 10:15 AM

Found this over on another board that popped up on a google search based on "What oil for my KTM 450 SX-F"...and it falls in-line with what I remeber hearing from an industry symposium at SEMA a few years back.

KRAYNIAL
My Rides (7)
Posted April 15, 2019 (edited)
FYI, there is no motorcycle manufacturer on the planet that has approved the used of Rotella T4 or T6 in their motorcycles. There is a reason for this.......

Use any A.P.I., SH/SG, JASO MA rated oils (shared motor clutch) or MB rated (motor side only) of the suggested viscosity in your owners manual.

You have three basic oil choices:

1. Un-grouped (unknown absolute origin of the petroleum oil) like Rotella regular

2. Group 3 oils (ultra refined petroleum oil) like Mobil-1 domestic, Rotella T6, etc. These are not actual synthetic oils, even though it says 'synthetic' on the label. That's because the oil lobby got the definition changed in 2011. They handle heat cycles better than Group 1/2 oils

3. Group 4 oils (actual synthetic oil, and it will say 'ester' somewhere on the label). These oils handle heat cycles typically 10x better than the above oils. Oils like Motul 300T, Motul 7000, Mobil-1 "European Formula", Golden Spectro SX4, Amsoil, BelRay EXS, etc.



There is no difference in 'lubrication' of any of the above oils, more or less, UNTIL the first heat cycle. Then the problems start. The oil breaks down and stops doing it's job. When will this happen ? Well, you can go to the Amsoil website and they will show you which oils do what (but they won't show Shell, as they do not want to be sued.....). Rule of thumb is group 3 oils can do 5 heat cycles before they are done. Group 4 can do over 20, and up to 100 depending on conditions.

If you ride HARD, and beat the crap out of your motor, Group 4 oils will typically prevent damage due to oil breakdown. Every Dakar Team, Every Baja team, every F1 team uses Group 4 and Group 5 oils for this reason.

If you don't ride hard and abuse your motor and clutch, then you just plain don't need it.

Regardless, change your oil OFTEN, like every 10-15 hours. DIRT is the big enemy, not oil brand. Even the very best oil in the world is useless in a dirtbike that has been ridden for 20 hours. It's too dirty to be of any use but to wear out your motor.

|

I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

12/5/2020 10:32 AM

Thanks. I guess the answer is no

|

12/5/2020 10:55 AM

Oh god.... not another oil thread....

|

www.bettercallsaul.com
Die Antwoord

12/5/2020 11:23 AM

I have argued the point of conventional vs synthetic oils for years. I have no doubt that synthetic oil resists breakdown better than conventional blends. But...I change oil every 10 hours on the bike and every 3k on my vehicles. I am not changing because of breakdown but because of carbon contaminants. The truth is...if the oil system was high pressure with an ultra fine micronic filter...we'd never have to change the oil.

Bottom line: it's cheaper for me to run conventional than run high dollar synthetic and change at he same interval.

|

If it ain't yer's don't take it, If it ain't the truth dont say it, If it ain't right don't do it...Marcus Aurelius

12/5/2020 12:30 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

Found this over on another board that popped up on a google search based on "What oil for my KTM 450 SX-F"...and it falls in-line with what I remeber hearing from an industry symposium at SEMA a few years back.

KRAYNIAL
My Rides (7)
Posted April 15, 2019 (edited)
FYI, there is no motorcycle manufacturer on the planet that has approved the used of Rotella T4 or T6 in their motorcycles. There is a reason for this.......

Use any A.P.I., SH/SG, JASO MA rated oils (shared motor clutch) or MB rated (motor side only) of the suggested viscosity in your owners manual.

You have three basic oil choices:

1. Un-grouped (unknown absolute origin of the petroleum oil) like Rotella regular

2. Group 3 oils (ultra refined petroleum oil) like Mobil-1 domestic, Rotella T6, etc. These are not actual synthetic oils, even though it says 'synthetic' on the label. That's because the oil lobby got the definition changed in 2011. They handle heat cycles better than Group 1/2 oils

3. Group 4 oils (actual synthetic oil, and it will say 'ester' somewhere on the label). These oils handle heat cycles typically 10x better than the above oils. Oils like Motul 300T, Motul 7000, Mobil-1 "European Formula", Golden Spectro SX4, Amsoil, BelRay EXS, etc.



There is no difference in 'lubrication' of any of the above oils, more or less, UNTIL the first heat cycle. Then the problems start. The oil breaks down and stops doing it's job. When will this happen ? Well, you can go to the Amsoil website and they will show you which oils do what (but they won't show Shell, as they do not want to be sued.....). Rule of thumb is group 3 oils can do 5 heat cycles before they are done. Group 4 can do over 20, and up to 100 depending on conditions.

If you ride HARD, and beat the crap out of your motor, Group 4 oils will typically prevent damage due to oil breakdown. Every Dakar Team, Every Baja team, every F1 team uses Group 4 and Group 5 oils for this reason.

If you don't ride hard and abuse your motor and clutch, then you just plain don't need it.

Regardless, change your oil OFTEN, like every 10-15 hours. DIRT is the big enemy, not oil brand. Even the very best oil in the world is useless in a dirtbike that has been ridden for 20 hours. It's too dirty to be of any use but to wear out your motor.

I finally switched from T4 to motul 300T this year. Still feels weird leaving it in more than a couple rides

|

RPM Performance
CT
783

12/5/2020 12:35 PM

plowboy wrote:

I have argued the point of conventional vs synthetic oils for years. I have no doubt that synthetic oil resists breakdown better than conventional blends. But...I change oil every 10 hours on the bike and every 3k on my vehicles. I am not changing because of breakdown but because of carbon contaminants. The truth is...if the oil system was high pressure with an ultra fine micronic filter...we'd never have to change the oil.

Bottom line: it's cheaper for me to run conventional than run high dollar synthetic and change at he same interval.

And I'm pretty sure your motors are doin' jus fine, right?

I run a lot of the cool-guy oils & my filters get changed pretty damn often; but, I -TRY- to -NOT- change my oil too often...that's just a waste. My engine just hit 100 hours; so, I guess I'll find out!

Some of these 1 gallon or 5 litre bottles I've seen at WalMart and other inexpensive options DO meet the requirements and they save money.

That's a good thing.

Also, guys that go riding at the track for a day and then toss out their oil and filter? Well, that ain't how I do it. The last time I changed my oil filter after "1 ride"? Well, that was after the "2-Day Mystery 250" in Nevada...which I rode on my SXF!
w00t

|

I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

12/5/2020 12:51 PM

TeamGreen wrote:

Found this over on another board that popped up on a google search based on "What oil for my KTM 450 SX-F"...and it falls in-line with what I remeber hearing from an industry symposium at SEMA a few years back.

KRAYNIAL
My Rides (7)
Posted April 15, 2019 (edited)
FYI, there is no motorcycle manufacturer on the planet that has approved the used of Rotella T4 or T6 in their motorcycles. There is a reason for this.......

Use any A.P.I., SH/SG, JASO MA rated oils (shared motor clutch) or MB rated (motor side only) of the suggested viscosity in your owners manual.

You have three basic oil choices:

1. Un-grouped (unknown absolute origin of the petroleum oil) like Rotella regular

2. Group 3 oils (ultra refined petroleum oil) like Mobil-1 domestic, Rotella T6, etc. These are not actual synthetic oils, even though it says 'synthetic' on the label. That's because the oil lobby got the definition changed in 2011. They handle heat cycles better than Group 1/2 oils

3. Group 4 oils (actual synthetic oil, and it will say 'ester' somewhere on the label). These oils handle heat cycles typically 10x better than the above oils. Oils like Motul 300T, Motul 7000, Mobil-1 "European Formula", Golden Spectro SX4, Amsoil, BelRay EXS, etc.



There is no difference in 'lubrication' of any of the above oils, more or less, UNTIL the first heat cycle. Then the problems start. The oil breaks down and stops doing it's job. When will this happen ? Well, you can go to the Amsoil website and they will show you which oils do what (but they won't show Shell, as they do not want to be sued.....). Rule of thumb is group 3 oils can do 5 heat cycles before they are done. Group 4 can do over 20, and up to 100 depending on conditions.

If you ride HARD, and beat the crap out of your motor, Group 4 oils will typically prevent damage due to oil breakdown. Every Dakar Team, Every Baja team, every F1 team uses Group 4 and Group 5 oils for this reason.

If you don't ride hard and abuse your motor and clutch, then you just plain don't need it.

Regardless, change your oil OFTEN, like every 10-15 hours. DIRT is the big enemy, not oil brand. Even the very best oil in the world is useless in a dirtbike that has been ridden for 20 hours. It's too dirty to be of any use but to wear out your motor.

Kranny😂🤦‍♂️

|

12/5/2020 12:53 PM

On oil bottles. Always looked for the marking CD. Commercial diesel. Had the most complete additive package. The older Rotella had that.

|

12/5/2020 1:35 PM

Well half the offroad community uses rotella and quite a bit of moto so theres that. Breakdown means nothing as often as we change our oils. They usually get full of clutch material long before the oil is compromised. Id run that kirkland stuff if its made for a wer clutch. I assume it is.

|

sponsored by zip tie, JB weld and peanut butter and jelly

12/5/2020 1:42 PM

Didn't read everything but let me see if I get the gist of what is going on. The people that are too cheap to run motorcycle oil are now looking for a cheaper alternative?

|

12/5/2020 2:49 PM

McG194 wrote:

Didn't read everything but let me see if I get the gist of what is going on. The people that are too cheap to run motorcycle oil are now looking for a cheaper alternative?

Bwaaaahaaaahaaaaaa

That's what you got?

Classic

"There's ALL SORTS of good oil to be had out there. Some costs more than others."

That's what's being discussed here.

laughing

Now, if you go and look at a KTM manual from just a few years ago? Well, it's recommending oil you can buy at WalMart. So, there's always that.

|

I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

12/5/2020 2:59 PM

plowboy wrote:

I have argued the point of conventional vs synthetic oils for years. I have no doubt that synthetic oil resists breakdown better than conventional blends. But...I change oil every 10 hours on the bike and every 3k on my vehicles. I am not changing because of breakdown but because of carbon contaminants. The truth is...if the oil system was high pressure with an ultra fine micronic filter...we'd never have to change the oil.

Bottom line: it's cheaper for me to run conventional than run high dollar synthetic and change at he same interval.

TeamGreen wrote:

And I'm pretty sure your motors are doin' jus fine, right?

I run a lot of the cool-guy oils & my filters get changed pretty damn often; but, I -TRY- to -NOT- change my oil too often...that's just a waste. My engine just hit 100 hours; so, I guess I'll find out!

Some of these 1 gallon or 5 litre bottles I've seen at WalMart and other inexpensive options DO meet the requirements and they save money.

That's a good thing.

Also, guys that go riding at the track for a day and then toss out their oil and filter? Well, that ain't how I do it. The last time I changed my oil filter after "1 ride"? Well, that was after the "2-Day Mystery 250" in Nevada...which I rode on my SXF!
w00t

I get the big jug from Walmart. I also use silicon spray on all cables and it works great.

|

12/5/2020 3:07 PM

plowboy wrote:

I have argued the point of conventional vs synthetic oils for years. I have no doubt that synthetic oil resists breakdown better than conventional blends. But...I change oil every 10 hours on the bike and every 3k on my vehicles. I am not changing because of breakdown but because of carbon contaminants. The truth is...if the oil system was high pressure with an ultra fine micronic filter...we'd never have to change the oil.

Bottom line: it's cheaper for me to run conventional than run high dollar synthetic and change at he same interval.

TeamGreen wrote:

And I'm pretty sure your motors are doin' jus fine, right?

I run a lot of the cool-guy oils & my filters get changed pretty damn often; but, I -TRY- to -NOT- change my oil too often...that's just a waste. My engine just hit 100 hours; so, I guess I'll find out!

Some of these 1 gallon or 5 litre bottles I've seen at WalMart and other inexpensive options DO meet the requirements and they save money.

That's a good thing.

Also, guys that go riding at the track for a day and then toss out their oil and filter? Well, that ain't how I do it. The last time I changed my oil filter after "1 ride"? Well, that was after the "2-Day Mystery 250" in Nevada...which I rode on my SXF!
w00t

numbers wrote:

I get the big jug from Walmart. I also use silicon spray on all cables and it works great.

You cheap bastard!

laughing

|

I ripped a start from Egypt and I was happy about that.

12/5/2020 3:53 PM

I remember them interviewing Roger DeCoster in the KTM workshop and there was a jug of Rotella sitting on the workbench behind him. Also, the former team manager for the KTM team Nick Wey rode for (MDK maybe) said they used Rotella. I used it for several years, but switched to Maxima a few years ago. I ride moto only and change oil around 4 hours and filter at 8 hours. My YZ450F only holds 650cc of oil so it gets worked pretty hard.

|

Take it to the limit, one more time!

12/6/2020 8:16 AM

wwoberg wrote:

At Costco today.
Photo

Never heard of Kirkland but we have used Rotella for 4 seasons with excellent results.

|

Non Gratum Anus Rodentum

12/6/2020 8:41 AM

How much is a Gallon of Rotella?

Seems like I pay about $8/quart for Maxima ProPlus.

Is it a big savings to use something else?

I'm changing oil every 10 and oil/filter every 20. 168 hours on my KTM 500 and never even adjusted the valves.

|

12/6/2020 8:52 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/6/2020 8:54 AM

I forgot which recent thread but they were talking about when you do engine maintenance on a 4-stroke.

Some guy said he had 500 hours on his 350 with the original engine never opened! w00t
Oil brand he used was rotella and that is the oil I have been using as well for over 15 years with great success T6.

Yes I know they changed it with less Zinc, but have not noticed anything different.

I change my oil on my 16 350XCFW every 10 hrs and use the SS reusable Tusk filter.
140 hrs on stock engine.

|

12/6/2020 8:56 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/6/2020 8:58 AM

Rotella T4 at Walmart is $12.47 for a gallon.

Photo

|

12/6/2020 9:23 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/6/2020 9:27 AM

Why do you think diesel oil gets destroyed very quickly and needs to be changed so often? When thinned out what weight is the water thickness thinned out oil?

Motorcycle formulation oils includes additives so transmission and clutch do not grind the oil breaking down molecular construction

When someone blows up a 4 stroke I always ask them what oil they were running. For some reason they always decline to answer. Wonder why?

|

12/6/2020 9:25 AM

TeamGreen wrote:

You need to know EXACTLY what ratings you're lookig for...API...JASO(sp?)...etc. I remember hearing they changed the levels of Zinc or something like that in one of the Rotella products; so, which one of the Rotellas you use matters.

Good luck!

FYI, T4 has ~1200ppm ZDDP which is plenty for a motorcycle oil. Motorcycle specific oils very widely between 1000ppm to 2500ppm, but once your engine is broken in, excessive zinc isn't really needed. Like mentioned above, since most dirt bikes get the oil changed in under 10 hours of run time you could run any oil that is wet clutch compatible and be fine. I run T4 in the winter, but my FX likes a 50 weight when the ambient temperature is above 90°.

|

12/6/2020 9:38 AM

McG194 wrote:

Didn't read everything but let me see if I get the gist of what is going on. The people that are too cheap to run motorcycle oil are now looking for a cheaper alternative?

That's what I thought. Maybe they want to change oil after every 5 lap moto.

|

The older I get, the faster I was.

12/6/2020 10:14 AM

lumpy790 wrote:

Why do you think diesel oil gets destroyed very quickly and needs to be changed so often? When thinned out what weight is the water thickness thinned out oil?

Motorcycle formulation oils includes additives so transmission and clutch do not grind the oil breaking down molecular construction

When someone blows up a 4 stroke I always ask them what oil they were running. For some reason they always decline to answer. Wonder why?

I haven't seen an engine failure that can be attributed to a specific oil. Now oil that has been overheated or ran too long yes, but that's not the oils fault. A good diesel oil is just fine for motorcycles, especially if the oil is getting changed in under 10 hours of run time.

|

12/6/2020 10:14 AM

So me changing 350sxf every 6-8 hours bel ray thumper with Esther I’m throwing away good money ?

|

GP740
Since 1987

12/6/2020 10:30 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/6/2020 10:31 AM

Rotella debate has been beaten to death. Tons of UOA’s out there backing up the fact it works, just not for extended intervals as it shears to a lower weight. No problem running that oil for 10 hours. I change Maxima Extra at 10 hours too if it’s run through the motor and tranny.

|

12/6/2020 10:40 AM

resetjet wrote:

Well half the offroad community uses rotella and quite a bit of moto so theres that. Breakdown means nothing as often as we change our oils. They usually get full of clutch material long before the oil is compromised. Id run that kirkland stuff if its made for a wer clutch. I assume it is.

Speaking of clutch material, I put a Tusk Competition clutch plate set in my boy's KX85, and even at 8-10 hours intervals the oil comes out clear and clean. And he uses the clutch quite a bit. Whatever plates they use really run clean.

Hammer

|