Is this the new normal, the USA Factory teams having more say over the riders race in the offseason

scott_nz
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9/15/2022 3:39pm
with Feld and MXsports doing a deal with the USA based factory teams over the super motocross title, and leaving the FIM series to hang out to dry,

are we going to see even less and less of the top factory guys racing overseas? or is it just WSX Kawasaki has been like this for a while and it seems Honda let the Lawerences go to Bercy, but wasn't keen on Kenny doing WSX,
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ck95
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9/15/2022 4:05pm
They've always had a say to which overseas races they would send equipment and staff to.

WSX is trying to compete/conflict with the AMA series, which the US based OE's pay their riders to race, so major conflict there.
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CPR
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9/16/2022 3:18am
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo.
Good news for the US series, but bad for international fans and the whole sport in the long run, I believe.
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MxKing809
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9/16/2022 4:13am
Business is business, and the talent will undoubtedly follow what will set them and their families up financially for years to come.

Other than the TOP 5….whose making more money in AMA SX than WSX?

Same argument for the PGA and LIV. It’s easy for Tiger and Rory to sit on their high horse as the equivalent of the top 5 in SX and demean anyone who wants to earn what they’re earning by moving to LIV.

Big difference here between the two is that Golf equipment manufacturers have no say in what their sponsored players do, and if they drop them, the players can buy an off the rack set of clubs and modify them in a basement to suit them. There isn’t really unobtanium in golf that can be used as leverage against the players like a factory ride in moto.

The teams here have made their choice (for now) and it’s not to support that series. Can’t blame them. It’s business. But I also can’t blame a rider for following an eventual pay check like Roczen.

What are his options? Take a year bridge contract with Honda to keep Jett’s seat warm for pennies on the dollar compared to his old contract? Join HEP for 100k a year? Might as well make that same amount and only race two rounds!
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9/16/2022 4:38am
They have the bikes and resources so they get to make the rules.
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The Shop

tek14
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9/16/2022 4:45am
Are you working? If you work for company and your contract runs october-october why would they let you do what ever you come up during contract time?
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DonM
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9/16/2022 6:52am
CPR wrote:
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo. Good news for the...
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo.
Good news for the US series, but bad for international fans and the whole sport in the long run, I believe.
Only bad for WSX as it appears that the teams are supporting their riders in other off season races...like they did before
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JustMX
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9/16/2022 9:29am
CPR wrote:
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo. Good news for the...
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo.
Good news for the US series, but bad for international fans and the whole sport in the long run, I believe.
DonM wrote:
Only bad for WSX as it appears that the teams are supporting their riders in other off season races...like they did before
in 2 years wsx will solve all this themselves
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ck95
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9/16/2022 9:44am
CPR wrote:
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo. Good news for the...
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo.
Good news for the US series, but bad for international fans and the whole sport in the long run, I believe.
DonM wrote:
Only bad for WSX as it appears that the teams are supporting their riders in other off season races...like they did before
JustMX wrote:
in 2 years wsx will solve all this themselves
If it's still around. They already clipped round 3 of this years "series", not off to a good start.

2 races isn't much of a "World Championship" series

B level talent for the most part as well
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bvm111
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9/16/2022 11:38am Edited Date/Time 9/16/2022 11:39am
US riders never brought their complete factory motorcycles to Paris or other one off international races. The promoter would supply motorcycles and the riders would bring suspension and maybe an exhaust with graphics. Agreeing to another competing series and expecting factory support is something different altogether, and understandable from a business / contractual point of view.
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DunnySeat
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9/16/2022 1:13pm
A lot of people are missing the real reason. It's not some grand conspiracy to grenade the WSX series. All of these manufacturers have separate budgets and sponsor obligations for FIM and USA series. They have an obligation to those sponsors to have bikes and riders on the track in their respective market to represent those sponsors.

I'd be pissed if I sponsored Honda for ken roczen to represent my US company and he goes to australia and breaks a leg and can't represent me in the US.
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honda341
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9/16/2022 1:37pm
Honda doesn't want to pay all the extra man power, shipping expenses, miscellaneous costs for their rider to ride an event that is outside of the country they operate within. Then Honda also does not want the rider running equipment that is subpar and will look bad for them if, their graphics are run, the equipment breaks, rider does poorly, the long list of other possibilities. Seems like a company trying to protect their investment. They invest in Ken to ride AMA SX and MX, just SX next year. If he gets hurt before the season even starts, does his contract have a clause that he gets paid regardless of actually lining up?

I agree, it sucks that things aren't working out in the favor of more races with the top talent involved. Seems like a small payoff for top level talent and teams.
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rowyrowy
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9/16/2022 1:42pm
DunnySeat wrote:
A lot of people are missing the real reason. It's not some grand conspiracy to grenade the WSX series. All of these manufacturers have separate budgets...
A lot of people are missing the real reason. It's not some grand conspiracy to grenade the WSX series. All of these manufacturers have separate budgets and sponsor obligations for FIM and USA series. They have an obligation to those sponsors to have bikes and riders on the track in their respective market to represent those sponsors.

I'd be pissed if I sponsored Honda for ken roczen to represent my US company and he goes to australia and breaks a leg and can't represent me in the US.
I also wonder if Honda US was receiving some heat from FELD.
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Lightning78
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9/16/2022 1:42pm
The wsx isn't gonna last longer than 2 years imo...most of the team are spending a lot of money up front and are gonna get screwed on the back end. That concerns me for motoconcepts longevity. They won't get to recoup their investments
9/16/2022 2:34pm
CPR wrote:
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo. Good news for the...
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo.
Good news for the US series, but bad for international fans and the whole sport in the long run, I believe.
I believe this is going to be bad for the sport too. And also bad for the riders.

Think about it- Feld, MX sports and the manufacturers all stick together, kill off any rival series so in the end their product is the rider’s only option. Now they can pay the riders less money- where else are they going to go ride and earn a living??

The riders need to stamp this behaviour out FAST!



As a fan, the only races you would have to watch are the FELD/MXsport owned races… you wanna watch SX fella, you’re gonna have to pay for it, UP go your subscription costs.. what you gonna do? Boycott it?? There will be nothing else to watch.

We NEED there to be be competition.

There’s an old saying about putting all your eggs in one basket..
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DonM
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9/16/2022 2:55pm
CPR wrote:
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo. Good news for the...
Yep Feld and MXSports protecting their investment and factory teams rewarding their loyalty over the years, e.g. Honda and the 2t embargo.
Good news for the US series, but bad for international fans and the whole sport in the long run, I believe.
I believe this is going to be bad for the sport too. And also bad for the riders. Think about it- Feld, MX sports and the...
I believe this is going to be bad for the sport too. And also bad for the riders.

Think about it- Feld, MX sports and the manufacturers all stick together, kill off any rival series so in the end their product is the rider’s only option. Now they can pay the riders less money- where else are they going to go ride and earn a living??

The riders need to stamp this behaviour out FAST!



As a fan, the only races you would have to watch are the FELD/MXsport owned races… you wanna watch SX fella, you’re gonna have to pay for it, UP go your subscription costs.. what you gonna do? Boycott it?? There will be nothing else to watch.

We NEED there to be be competition.

There’s an old saying about putting all your eggs in one basket..
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have just decided to have their championship in the fall/off season….
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yota
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9/16/2022 3:02pm
and they jump right in and call their new series the "world championship of supercross". what a joke. if the AMA and MX Sports started calling the US Nats the "world Championship of Motocross" you guys in Europe would be having a cow.
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yota
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9/16/2022 3:17pm
this new series is nothing more than the fim flexing their muscles and trying to put Feld and the US SX series out of business as revenge for Feld dumping them. Period. you all know it. we don't want or need your "world" sanctioning body here.

you know what? if the FIM had named their series the "world supercross series" no one would be having any heartburn. just coming out and proclaiming it to be THE Championship of Supercross is laughable. good luck.



















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CPR
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yota wrote:
this new series is nothing more than the fim flexing their muscles and trying to put Feld and the US SX series out of business as...
this new series is nothing more than the fim flexing their muscles and trying to put Feld and the US SX series out of business as revenge for Feld dumping them. Period. you all know it. we don't want or need your "world" sanctioning body here.

you know what? if the FIM had named their series the "world supercross series" no one would be having any heartburn. just coming out and proclaiming it to be THE Championship of Supercross is laughable. good luck.



















You think the FIM is running WSX? Seriously?
That’s like saying the AMA runs the Nationals and SX.
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scott_nz
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9/16/2022 4:04pm
CPR wrote:
You think the FIM is running WSX? Seriously?
That’s like saying the AMA runs the Nationals and SX.
Correct. The fim just went after a pay check after they lost the one from feld
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DonM
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9/16/2022 5:23pm
One word, collusion!
How so? Who are they trying to cheat and deceive?
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9/16/2022 8:15pm
DonM wrote:
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have...
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have just decided to have their championship in the fall/off season….
WHEN is their series?

It IS in the fall/off-season.
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DonM
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9/16/2022 8:37pm
DonM wrote:
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have...
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have just decided to have their championship in the fall/off season….
WHEN is their series?

It IS in the fall/off-season.
Ummmm…..they announced that in 23 they are starting in June….have you not been paying attention?
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CPR
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9/16/2022 8:44pm Edited Date/Time 9/16/2022 8:45pm
DonM wrote:
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have...
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have just decided to have their championship in the fall/off season….
WHEN is their series?

It IS in the fall/off-season.
DonM wrote:
Ummmm…..they announced that in 23 they are starting in June….have you not been paying attention?
That’s next year and it may not even happen yet.
However there is no clash or direct competition this year, but everyone is still willing it to fail.
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DonM
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9/16/2022 9:01pm
WHEN is their series?

It IS in the fall/off-season.
DonM wrote:
Ummmm…..they announced that in 23 they are starting in June….have you not been paying attention?
CPR wrote:
That’s next year and it may not even happen yet. However there is no clash or direct competition this year, but everyone is still willing it...
That’s next year and it may not even happen yet.
However there is no clash or direct competition this year, but everyone is still willing it to fail.
Nobody is willing it to fail…if they fail it will be because of the way they have gone about things. They made some seriously wrong assumptions that riders and teams wanted to race SX only…they are not going to be the series they thought they were going to be. Hopefully they reassess their plan and become an Oct, Nov series that allows riders to race in the off season. They will not be the series that has the best in the world or a true world championship…
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Phillip_Lamb
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9/16/2022 9:14pm
scott_nz wrote:
with Feld and MXsports doing a deal with the USA based factory teams over the super motocross title, and leaving the FIM series to hang out...
with Feld and MXsports doing a deal with the USA based factory teams over the super motocross title, and leaving the FIM series to hang out to dry,

are we going to see even less and less of the top factory guys racing overseas? or is it just WSX Kawasaki has been like this for a while and it seems Honda let the Lawerences go to Bercy, but wasn't keen on Kenny doing WSX,
they always have. its just lessened since the 80's and early 90's.

riders back then did more of the european sx races or even local series like the Golden states but times have changed. I think it also depends on the rider and what they already have established
9/16/2022 11:49pm
DonM wrote:
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have...
And WSX has no fault in any of this….I believe they are the ones who chose to compete with an existing series…if only they would have just decided to have their championship in the fall/off season….
WHEN is their series?

It IS in the fall/off-season.
DonM wrote:
Ummmm…..they announced that in 23 they are starting in June….have you not been paying attention?
They also announced three races this year and that’s already down to two.

I keep an open mind that things are open to change & adjustment, as so often happens.

I don’t believe for one minute they’ll start in June next year.
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9/16/2022 11:59pm
DonM wrote:
Ummmm…..they announced that in 23 they are starting in June….have you not been paying attention?
CPR wrote:
That’s next year and it may not even happen yet. However there is no clash or direct competition this year, but everyone is still willing it...
That’s next year and it may not even happen yet.
However there is no clash or direct competition this year, but everyone is still willing it to fail.
DonM wrote:
Nobody is willing it to fail…if they fail it will be because of the way they have gone about things. They made some seriously wrong assumptions...
Nobody is willing it to fail…if they fail it will be because of the way they have gone about things. They made some seriously wrong assumptions that riders and teams wanted to race SX only…they are not going to be the series they thought they were going to be. Hopefully they reassess their plan and become an Oct, Nov series that allows riders to race in the off season. They will not be the series that has the best in the world or a true world championship…
How do YOU know?

WE’ve all read the complaints about FELD.
We’ve all read about the block on merch sales, block on Reed’s camera, his cbd, and then gaining that sponsor for the series.

Then we’ve got the pointing out rule which some people including riders don’t like..

Then outdoors- riders racing for no $, sponsors not bothered if their riders do it or not. Long hot summers which some riders don’t like..

How do you know these little things won’t add up and riders slowly go grab the purse money.

Sure, America may still have the half dozen big hitters… but what are big hitters without the 2nd & 3rd tier back-up?

I’m not saying these things will definitely come to fruition, because I don’t KNOW.

Yet you seem to KNOW without a shadow of doubt that these WONT happen. How so?
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DonM
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9/17/2022 6:20am
WHEN is their series?

It IS in the fall/off-season.
DonM wrote:
Ummmm…..they announced that in 23 they are starting in June….have you not been paying attention?
They also announced three races this year and that’s already down to two. I keep an open mind that things are open to change & adjustment...
They also announced three races this year and that’s already down to two.

I keep an open mind that things are open to change & adjustment, as so often happens.

I don’t believe for one minute they’ll start in June next year.
Well first of all they announced 5-6 races this year and now it's down to two unofficially, as they haven't changed their website. Whether you believe it or not they have announced that they will start in June next year and have up 12 races around the world...if you're right then I'm good and I wish them all the success in their fall off season races...
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DonM
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9/17/2022 6:27am
CPR wrote:
That’s next year and it may not even happen yet. However there is no clash or direct competition this year, but everyone is still willing it...
That’s next year and it may not even happen yet.
However there is no clash or direct competition this year, but everyone is still willing it to fail.
DonM wrote:
Nobody is willing it to fail…if they fail it will be because of the way they have gone about things. They made some seriously wrong assumptions...
Nobody is willing it to fail…if they fail it will be because of the way they have gone about things. They made some seriously wrong assumptions that riders and teams wanted to race SX only…they are not going to be the series they thought they were going to be. Hopefully they reassess their plan and become an Oct, Nov series that allows riders to race in the off season. They will not be the series that has the best in the world or a true world championship…
How do YOU know? WE’ve all read the complaints about FELD. We’ve all read about the block on merch sales, block on Reed’s camera, his cbd...
How do YOU know?

WE’ve all read the complaints about FELD.
We’ve all read about the block on merch sales, block on Reed’s camera, his cbd, and then gaining that sponsor for the series.

Then we’ve got the pointing out rule which some people including riders don’t like..

Then outdoors- riders racing for no $, sponsors not bothered if their riders do it or not. Long hot summers which some riders don’t like..

How do you know these little things won’t add up and riders slowly go grab the purse money.

Sure, America may still have the half dozen big hitters… but what are big hitters without the 2nd & 3rd tier back-up?

I’m not saying these things will definitely come to fruition, because I don’t KNOW.

Yet you seem to KNOW without a shadow of doubt that these WONT happen. How so?
How do I know? Because I've been paying attention....
You obviously haven't listened to ML's podcast on the subject....it's all in there. The money beginning next year will be better to stay and get into the 3 races at the end of the season...If WSX is smart they will evolve into a fall off/season series it's the only way they will get any riders of substance for international fans to see.

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