Is this the Vital 2T taliban dream bike? YZ 220 Retro

I like it.

That's pretty durn cool!

Yes! This is the $3995.00 entry level special I have been preaching for years. I always figured KTM could build one with the old style PDS frame and no linkage with an air cooled engine capable of swapping top ends for 125-175cc displacement.

Don’t worry about the two guys who voted it a bad idea. Mommas little basement dwellers they are, with Cheeto dust encrusted keyboards.

newmann wrote:

Don’t worry about the two guys who voted it a bad idea. Mommas little basement dwellers they are, with Cheeto dust encrusted keyboards.

Yea, I think everyone who disagrees with my point of view are idiots too.

Been thinking about this one for awhile. The front brake line though...

newmann wrote:

Yes! This is the $3995.00 entry level special I have been preaching for years. I always figured KTM could build one with the old style PDS frame and no linkage with an air cooled engine capable of swapping top ends for 125-175cc displacement.

An SX50 costs more than that, is linkageless, has no transmission, and is about knee high.

Very , very cool !

I like the blaster engine. I have a blaster its a fun beater quad for when it snows. Idk where you got the 30hp number though, more like 17-18 stock.

Caseclosed713 wrote:

I like the blaster engine. I have a blaster its a fun beater quad for when it snows. Idk where you got the 30hp number though, more like 17-18 stock.

Yup. DT/WR200 were also in same lineage (the Blaster being a lower-performance version of the same design). The DT200 is a good, reliable and tractable motor, but is way down on power over a stock YZ125.

Caseclosed713 wrote:

I like the blaster engine. I have a blaster its a fun beater quad for when it snows. Idk where you got the 30hp number though, more like 17-18 stock.

It had a few simple mods done to it. I could easily see 30 hp if it had similar mods from the factory.
We need something like that for beginners, younger guys with kids who can't drop $8000 on a new bike, and even for vets who are as cheap as Weege.
$4000 with SSS suspension would be an awesome bike to get people into/back into the sport.

Caseclosed713 wrote:

I like the blaster engine. I have a blaster its a fun beater quad for when it snows. Idk where you got the 30hp number though, more like 17-18 stock.

mikec265 wrote:

It had a few simple mods done to it. I could easily see 30 hp if it had similar mods from the factory.
We need something like that for beginners, younger guys with kids who can't drop $8000 on a new bike, and even for vets who are as cheap as Weege.
$4000 with SSS suspension would be an awesome bike to get people into/back into the sport.

A KX65 is nearly $4000 and has 33mm damping rod suspension.

Caseclosed713 wrote:

I like the blaster engine. I have a blaster its a fun beater quad for when it snows. Idk where you got the 30hp number though, more like 17-18 stock.

mikec265 wrote:

It had a few simple mods done to it. I could easily see 30 hp if it had similar mods from the factory.
We need something like that for beginners, younger guys with kids who can't drop $8000 on a new bike, and even for vets who are as cheap as Weege.
$4000 with SSS suspension would be an awesome bike to get people into/back into the sport.

Dirty Points wrote:

A KX65 is nearly $4000 and has 33mm damping rod suspension.

Sorry I meant $4001. My bad. Those Blaster quads were like $3000 new. Less metal on a bike. Maybe there's enough left over air forks to drop the price of the bike. Considering adds for leftover 250Fs $4000 may not be out of line for a low tech bike. Give it Chingchong tires, steel bars, steel sprockets, and share plastics with an existing model. Then BNG every year. Every fall a local dealer has 400-500cc utiliy quads for sale for $4500 to $5000. Even 4x4 Can Ams under $5k. There's a lot less metal in a dirt bike with an antique engine. It could be done that cheap. I am a real cheapass and I approve of this message.

mikec265 wrote:

It had a few simple mods done to it. I could easily see 30 hp if it had similar mods from the factory.
We need something like that for beginners, younger guys with kids who can't drop $8000 on a new bike, and even for vets who are as cheap as Weege.
$4000 with SSS suspension would be an awesome bike to get people into/back into the sport.

Dirty Points wrote:

A KX65 is nearly $4000 and has 33mm damping rod suspension.

mikec265 wrote:

Sorry I meant $4001. My bad. Those Blaster quads were like $3000 new. Less metal on a bike. Maybe there's enough left over air forks to drop the price of the bike. Considering adds for leftover 250Fs $4000 may not be out of line for a low tech bike. Give it Chingchong tires, steel bars, steel sprockets, and share plastics with an existing model. Then BNG every year. Every fall a local dealer has 400-500cc utiliy quads for sale for $4500 to $5000. Even 4x4 Can Ams under $5k. There's a lot less metal in a dirt bike with an antique engine. It could be done that cheap. I am a real cheapass and I approve of this message.

The all-Chingchong (not just tires) Chinese version of this bike already exists with a Chinese copy of the DT200/Blaster engine. It is $5800, and just in case you're wondering, no SSS.

https://gpxmoto.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=73

Dirty Points wrote:

A KX65 is nearly $4000 and has 33mm damping rod suspension.

mikec265 wrote:

Sorry I meant $4001. My bad. Those Blaster quads were like $3000 new. Less metal on a bike. Maybe there's enough left over air forks to drop the price of the bike. Considering adds for leftover 250Fs $4000 may not be out of line for a low tech bike. Give it Chingchong tires, steel bars, steel sprockets, and share plastics with an existing model. Then BNG every year. Every fall a local dealer has 400-500cc utiliy quads for sale for $4500 to $5000. Even 4x4 Can Ams under $5k. There's a lot less metal in a dirt bike with an antique engine. It could be done that cheap. I am a real cheapass and I approve of this message.

Dirty Points wrote:

The all-Chingchong (not just tires) Chinese version of this bike already exists with a Chinese copy of the DT200/Blaster engine. It is $5800, and just in case you're wondering, no SSS.

https://gpxmoto.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=73

Have you seen a new leftover 250f under $6000?
Many of us have, especially Suzukis. The GPX is over priced by at least $2000. That's why no one cared when it was released.
My $830 TAO 125 pit bike is light years ahead of a CRF125 or KLX110 trail bike. The engine might only last 2 years instead of 10 years, but for the price and performance I'll take the chingaling pitbike.
It can be done, and the Chinese are catching up.

mikec265 wrote:

Sorry I meant $4001. My bad. Those Blaster quads were like $3000 new. Less metal on a bike. Maybe there's enough left over air forks to drop the price of the bike. Considering adds for leftover 250Fs $4000 may not be out of line for a low tech bike. Give it Chingchong tires, steel bars, steel sprockets, and share plastics with an existing model. Then BNG every year. Every fall a local dealer has 400-500cc utiliy quads for sale for $4500 to $5000. Even 4x4 Can Ams under $5k. There's a lot less metal in a dirt bike with an antique engine. It could be done that cheap. I am a real cheapass and I approve of this message.

Dirty Points wrote:

The all-Chingchong (not just tires) Chinese version of this bike already exists with a Chinese copy of the DT200/Blaster engine. It is $5800, and just in case you're wondering, no SSS.

https://gpxmoto.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=73

mikec265 wrote:

Have you seen a new leftover 250f under $6000?
Many of us have, especially Suzukis. The GPX is over priced by at least $2000. That's why no one cared when it was released.
My $830 TAO 125 pit bike is light years ahead of a CRF125 or KLX110 trail bike. The engine might only last 2 years instead of 10 years, but for the price and performance I'll take the chingaling pitbike.
It can be done, and the Chinese are catching up.

Dealers take a bath on the new, leftover bikes.

I'm not arguing that this is not a nice bike concept that fills a significant hole in the market that has been vacant since the KDX200 dropped out in 2006. It's just that you guys who think it could be easily designed, built, promoted, and supported for $4k with room leftover for the dealer are probably a good deal off the mark on what it costs.

The fact that you think a KLX110 is not a good value, when it is one of the lowest-margin machines in the industry tells me a lot about the mindset you are coming at this with.

An entry level bike, yes.
This crappy turd, hell no.

Dirty Points wrote:

The all-Chingchong (not just tires) Chinese version of this bike already exists with a Chinese copy of the DT200/Blaster engine. It is $5800, and just in case you're wondering, no SSS.

https://gpxmoto.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=73

mikec265 wrote:

Have you seen a new leftover 250f under $6000?
Many of us have, especially Suzukis. The GPX is over priced by at least $2000. That's why no one cared when it was released.
My $830 TAO 125 pit bike is light years ahead of a CRF125 or KLX110 trail bike. The engine might only last 2 years instead of 10 years, but for the price and performance I'll take the chingaling pitbike.
It can be done, and the Chinese are catching up.

Dirty Points wrote:

Dealers take a bath on the new, leftover bikes.

I'm not arguing that this is not a nice bike concept that fills a significant hole in the market that has been vacant since the KDX200 dropped out in 2006. It's just that you guys who think it could be easily designed, built, promoted, and supported for $4k with room leftover for the dealer are probably a good deal off the mark on what it costs.

The fact that you think a KLX110 is not a good value, when it is one of the lowest-margin machines in the industry tells me a lot about the mindset you are coming at this with.

I never said a $2300 KLX 110 isn't a good value. Basically $830 for a 125 pitbike that comes stock with hydraulic brakes, braided lines, stiffer longer travel suspension, and ergonomics more for an adult is a screaming deal at about 35% the price shipped to your doorstep. There's literally no comparison when it comes to price and performance. Sure the quality is lower, but for the price it doesn't matter.
My point is it's only a matter of time before a full sized helping of Chinese Takeout is worth buying.
If the manufacturers made something like in Weege's blog with a stock blaster engine or one pumped up to 20-25 easy to use hp it would sell below a $4500 price point. The lower the price, the more they would sell.
In one to two years a lot of those riders would probably upgrade to a real stock race bike.

those welds......

That guy is on the right track for sure. It’s a modern version of the Hodaka 100s that got so many people riding in the early 70s. He built a simplified version of the state of the art. Picture a 71 Husky next to a 71 Hodaka, then put this guys bike next to a new YZ450F. He’s pretty much nailed it! If someone could sell them for less than $5k (aka: tax return money) they’ll sell. IMO..

If electric makes this possible, that works too.

The other piece of this puzzle is places to ride that are close to home. As a kid, in the valley east of Los Angeles, there was vacant lots and hills where we could go ride without much hassle from anyone. I think this is where electricity can make things better.

KTM could do this easily, a PDS frame with OC forks and a detuned, carbureted, air cooled 200-250 two stroke built in the Asian plant could work.. regulations are the real challenge, it’d sell better if it could be green sticker legal in California and that kills the two stroke..

Electric.. that’s our future..

Badass! I've always wanted to try this with an XR motor.

It needs to be red with a blue seat and have the Wing on the side....

But seriously, I agree with Mikec265, the Chinese are catching up, copying the Japs old bikes and freshening them up, and selling them cheap. The Japs have been selling the ttr, klx and small crs forever and yes they are indestructible, but they also have the crappiest suspension. You could buy 4 Chingalings, one for everyone in the house or the block for the price of a single nice klx and use them up for 2 years of thrashing. Yeah, an adult thrashing a Chinese Pitbike is going to require a lot of tweaking and repair, but a kid riding around on trails or farmland may fair very well.

These old Japanese 2 strokes and entry bikes that have not had any development need to drop way down in price.

mikec265 wrote:

Have you seen a new leftover 250f under $6000?
Many of us have, especially Suzukis. The GPX is over priced by at least $2000. That's why no one cared when it was released.
My $830 TAO 125 pit bike is light years ahead of a CRF125 or KLX110 trail bike. The engine might only last 2 years instead of 10 years, but for the price and performance I'll take the chingaling pitbike.
It can be done, and the Chinese are catching up.

Dirty Points wrote:

Dealers take a bath on the new, leftover bikes.

I'm not arguing that this is not a nice bike concept that fills a significant hole in the market that has been vacant since the KDX200 dropped out in 2006. It's just that you guys who think it could be easily designed, built, promoted, and supported for $4k with room leftover for the dealer are probably a good deal off the mark on what it costs.

The fact that you think a KLX110 is not a good value, when it is one of the lowest-margin machines in the industry tells me a lot about the mindset you are coming at this with.

mikec265 wrote:

I never said a $2300 KLX 110 isn't a good value. Basically $830 for a 125 pitbike that comes stock with hydraulic brakes, braided lines, stiffer longer travel suspension, and ergonomics more for an adult is a screaming deal at about 35% the price shipped to your doorstep. There's literally no comparison when it comes to price and performance. Sure the quality is lower, but for the price it doesn't matter.
My point is it's only a matter of time before a full sized helping of Chinese Takeout is worth buying.
If the manufacturers made something like in Weege's blog with a stock blaster engine or one pumped up to 20-25 easy to use hp it would sell below a $4500 price point. The lower the price, the more they would sell.
In one to two years a lot of those riders would probably upgrade to a real stock race bike.

You do understand why, say, a Lifan motor is so cheap, right?

It is because they are built for the Asian domestic street bike market, in quantities several times over the entire global motocross market. That is what they are leveraging to get you an $830 pitbike. You can't do that with a new platform. It HAS to be the old air-cooled Honda knockoff (or whatever they choose to use for those bikes).

Dude needs to fix the front brake line asap!

Cool idea though!

A brand new Yamaha TT-R230 is $4,399....

I'd LOVE an air cooled, steel framed YZ 200, but I fear it would not be a $4,000 motorcycle with a motocross-worthy chassis.

Still cooler than a quad

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I may have seen something like that once before?

Cool bike. For emission reasons never going to happen.
There is a need for an entry level race bike, like earlier posters said about Hodaka.
If smog weren’t an issue I’d say one of the big six could take a chance as an entry level bike. I’d love to have a 1982 air cooled KTM250 in a modern chassis.