Is this just how 2 strokes are??

Matt Fisher
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Matt Fisher 8/14/2014 6:58am
8/14/2014 6:58am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2014 7:01am
The cheapest route will never be the safest, but you can manage the risk and the cost.

First thing first- split the cases and determine if you even need new parts. Maybe the prior owner fished everything out and there isn't damage, or maybe the damage is really minor. You'll be out some time, some Yamabond, and probably some gaskets, so there's minimal cost involved.

You will also need some specialty tools. If you can't borrow them from a friend, then you'll have that investment too.
JA946
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JA946 8/14/2014 7:01am
8/14/2014 7:01am
HazemG wrote:
Would it be a good idea to try to find a transmission or cases from a parted out bike and just swapping that on? Or do...
Would it be a good idea to try to find a transmission or cases from a parted out bike and just swapping that on? Or do you run the risk of the same exact problem? How much is a new 2014/15 motor for a yz? Would it bolt on to an 05 chassis?

Trying to figure out the safest/best/most cost effective way to go about this...
You're going down the wrong path.

A used bike is just that; used. Any issues or future problems, you're buying into.

Some people buy used and run them into the ground.

Some people buy used, and budget to rebuild everything. This was the route I took - I treat any used bike like it's been rag dolled, which majority of 2 strokes have been. I completely rebuilt my '04 cr250 from the ground up, and expected to.

Your inherit budgeting issue is that you don't perform the work yourself, something I'd say 60% of the MX community does. You're in for a large labour bill if you don't.

It could be worse - could be a used 250F - buddy bought a used KXF - and promptly spent 2K on it rebuilding the top and bottom end - and this didn't include labour because he had a shop do it.

You're looking at $500 in parts, and about 1/2 that in labour, but it sounds like you're expecting some minty bike you bought used. All used bikes need something, sooner or later.

I'd tell you, sell it, disclose all issues, and go buy a brand new 4 stroke, sounds like that's what you're expecting.

I'l be nice, and take the broken YZ for $500.
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 7:10am
8/14/2014 7:10am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2014 7:10am
HazemG wrote:
Would it be a good idea to try to find a transmission or cases from a parted out bike and just swapping that on? Or do...
Would it be a good idea to try to find a transmission or cases from a parted out bike and just swapping that on? Or do you run the risk of the same exact problem? How much is a new 2014/15 motor for a yz? Would it bolt on to an 05 chassis?

Trying to figure out the safest/best/most cost effective way to go about this...
JA946 wrote:
You're going down the wrong path. A used bike is just that; used. Any issues or future problems, you're buying into. Some people buy used and...
You're going down the wrong path.

A used bike is just that; used. Any issues or future problems, you're buying into.

Some people buy used and run them into the ground.

Some people buy used, and budget to rebuild everything. This was the route I took - I treat any used bike like it's been rag dolled, which majority of 2 strokes have been. I completely rebuilt my '04 cr250 from the ground up, and expected to.

Your inherit budgeting issue is that you don't perform the work yourself, something I'd say 60% of the MX community does. You're in for a large labour bill if you don't.

It could be worse - could be a used 250F - buddy bought a used KXF - and promptly spent 2K on it rebuilding the top and bottom end - and this didn't include labour because he had a shop do it.

You're looking at $500 in parts, and about 1/2 that in labour, but it sounds like you're expecting some minty bike you bought used. All used bikes need something, sooner or later.

I'd tell you, sell it, disclose all issues, and go buy a brand new 4 stroke, sounds like that's what you're expecting.

I'l be nice, and take the broken YZ for $500.
A) I have a new Honda 450 sitting in the garage right next to the YZ.

B.) I want a 2 stroke, so not sure how/why you're assuming I'd want a 4 stroke instead.

C) Never expected a mint bike. I want a safe bike. The bike was purchased thinking the shift issue would be solved with replacing to the upgraded part. After this was done and the problem persisted, I began to second guess purchasing a bike I thought needed minimal work.


$500 in parts and $250 in labor I could do if that ensured a completely fresh bike. What parts are you speaking of specifically?
JA946
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JA946 8/14/2014 7:13am
8/14/2014 7:13am
HazemG wrote:
A) I have a new Honda 450 sitting in the garage right next to the YZ. B.) I want a 2 stroke, so not sure how/why...
A) I have a new Honda 450 sitting in the garage right next to the YZ.

B.) I want a 2 stroke, so not sure how/why you're assuming I'd want a 4 stroke instead.

C) Never expected a mint bike. I want a safe bike. The bike was purchased thinking the shift issue would be solved with replacing to the upgraded part. After this was done and the problem persisted, I began to second guess purchasing a bike I thought needed minimal work.


$500 in parts and $250 in labor I could do if that ensured a completely fresh bike. What parts are you speaking of specifically?
Me telling you what parts over the internet is akin to a doctor diagnosing my heart rate through a locked door.

I couldn't tell you, until it's apart and you start inspecting parts.

Pull motor - pull top end, split cases, pull apart transmission.

Inspect parts, wear, and problems. Start ordering parts.

Parts get there, start assembly.

The Shop

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HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 7:26am
8/14/2014 7:26am
Fair enough. I guess I wanted to order parts before so I could have a bike repaired quicker. Guess I'll ride her one last time Saturday and then tear it down.


Question- Do you think having $2200 into a 2005 YZ 125 is foolish if it were completely gone through as you say? I plan on keeping the bike. I'm D class speed-wise so I really don't need the latest and greatest, but I want a fun, good handling, dependable bike.
Matt Fisher
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Matt Fisher 8/14/2014 8:53am
8/14/2014 8:53am
First, $500 is parts isn't going to insure a "completely fresh bike". $9000 for a brand new one will insure that.

$2200 into most bikes isn't unreasonable- there's plenty of guys that would think it's an absurdly low amount of money to have into their bike. Get the YZ running right and you'll have a good handling, dependable bike that's ridiculously fun.

Given that you have the CRF already, I might suggest you not ride the YZ on Saturday. If there are parts floating around in the transmission and they suddenly decide to embed themselves into the gearbox, you could be in for a much larger repair bill, or even a trip to the ER.
Crisp BRAAAP! 8/14/2014 9:30am
8/14/2014 9:30am
^^^This.

You can't insure that a nearly decade old bike will be "completely fresh" ever again unless you're going to completely rebuild it.

But you could have the peace of mind that it's fairly sound by having the cases split and the internals carefully inspected. I'd personally want to freshen it up a bit, since once you've spent the money to go in, why not do that to insure against having to split the cases again in the near future? Sure, it might cost a grand to add some bearing and seals, but hopefully it's enough to give you a long time before you hit any other problems with it.

I've got an 06 and I was lucky to get the stopper out in time. So far, mine has been a wonderful bike and it's been a few years now. I would put good gas in it: I am running VP at the moment but LL should work fine too if you can get it. I didn't believe what the previous owners told me about this (it needed a higher octane fuel) but they were right and that's what folks will tell you about this bike. It's one of the only stock 2 strokes I've owned (that were stock) that needed good gas.

Fix it and enjoy it - they are great.
JA946
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JA946 8/14/2014 9:33am
8/14/2014 9:33am
HazemG wrote:
Fair enough. I guess I wanted to order parts before so I could have a bike repaired quicker. Guess I'll ride her one last time Saturday...
Fair enough. I guess I wanted to order parts before so I could have a bike repaired quicker. Guess I'll ride her one last time Saturday and then tear it down.


Question- Do you think having $2200 into a 2005 YZ 125 is foolish if it were completely gone through as you say? I plan on keeping the bike. I'm D class speed-wise so I really don't need the latest and greatest, but I want a fun, good handling, dependable bike.
You could do what I did -

Open up the OEM parts fiche on RMC or partzilla....

And start clicking "add to cart"....

Next thing I knew, I had a large cart of items....
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 9:43am
8/14/2014 9:43am
Matt Fisher wrote:
First, $500 is parts isn't going to insure a "completely fresh bike". $9000 for a brand new one will insure that. $2200 into most bikes isn't...
First, $500 is parts isn't going to insure a "completely fresh bike". $9000 for a brand new one will insure that.

$2200 into most bikes isn't unreasonable- there's plenty of guys that would think it's an absurdly low amount of money to have into their bike. Get the YZ running right and you'll have a good handling, dependable bike that's ridiculously fun.

Given that you have the CRF already, I might suggest you not ride the YZ on Saturday. If there are parts floating around in the transmission and they suddenly decide to embed themselves into the gearbox, you could be in for a much larger repair bill, or even a trip to the ER.
I think there is a better chance of the 450 causing a trip to the ER Tongue

I agree on your brand new bike comment, but I think you know what I meant. If I can put a little money into it and not keep running into problems (Aka money pit) then I'll do it.

I think I'm convinced to split the cases and assess the damage. We'll see what I got on my hands. Now just to find out how to do this..Blink
JA946
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JA946 8/14/2014 9:46am
8/14/2014 9:46am
HazemG wrote:
I think there is a better chance of the 450 causing a trip to the ER :P I agree on your brand new bike comment, but...
I think there is a better chance of the 450 causing a trip to the ER Tongue

I agree on your brand new bike comment, but I think you know what I meant. If I can put a little money into it and not keep running into problems (Aka money pit) then I'll do it.

I think I'm convinced to split the cases and assess the damage. We'll see what I got on my hands. Now just to find out how to do this..Blink
Google.com and this board along with Youtube, and you're SET.

I remember rebuilding my CR80, and the only resource I had was my dad over the phone and a factory service manual!

Now you have videos and tutorials etc!
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 9:47am
8/14/2014 9:47am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2014 9:48am
I ended up picking the bike up for $1300 (including gas to drive to Oklahoma). So I would like to keep the motor to about $600, and then be able to replace the beat up plastics for another $100 or so.


Goal is this bike right here:
JA946
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JA946 8/14/2014 10:00am
8/14/2014 10:00am
That plastic kit and graphics cost more than $100.
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 10:03am
8/14/2014 10:03am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2014 10:04am
JA946 wrote:
That plastic kit and graphics cost more than $100.
I'm not a complete idiot Wink Debating just new number plates in the mean time and then grab the rest of the kit, or just waiting and going all out after I get the motor dialed in.

185 plastics +140 for graphics from my bud Bryar at 180 Decals.
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 10:19am
8/14/2014 10:19am
JA946 wrote:
Google.com and this board along with Youtube, and you're SET. I remember rebuilding my CR80, and the only resource I had was my dad over the...
Google.com and this board along with Youtube, and you're SET.

I remember rebuilding my CR80, and the only resource I had was my dad over the phone and a factory service manual!

Now you have videos and tutorials etc!
Alright sick. Let's get after it!
YZ125H1
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YZ125H1 8/14/2014 10:22am
8/14/2014 10:22am
JA946 wrote:
Google.com and this board along with Youtube, and you're SET. I remember rebuilding my CR80, and the only resource I had was my dad over the...
Google.com and this board along with Youtube, and you're SET.

I remember rebuilding my CR80, and the only resource I had was my dad over the phone and a factory service manual!

Now you have videos and tutorials etc!
HazemG wrote:
Alright sick. Let's get after it!
I'm not sure how close your engine is to the YZ250 but this guy knows his stuff makes it easy to understand.

luckyguy19
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luckyguy19 8/14/2014 10:44am
8/14/2014 10:44am Edited Date/Time 8/14/2014 10:52am
Get this;
Hot Rods bottom end kit

and this;
Vertex Piston Kit

You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long as the platting on the cylinder is good, your only into the motor for $450. Leaves you $150 left for miscellaneous parts you might need once you get in there an see whats what.

Don't forget a flywheel puller too. Follow the manual and youtube videos and you'll have no problem doing it yourself.
Also make sure you drill the piston at the exhaust bridge. Check Thumpertalk for more details on that.
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 10:54am
8/14/2014 10:54am
luckyguy19 wrote:
Get this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Rods-CBK0090-Bottom-End/dp/B0068ER4CE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408037959&sr=8-1&keywords=CBK0090]Hot Rods bottom end kit[/url] and this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Vertex-Piston-Kit-Standard-53-94mm/dp/B003177TAI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408038114&sr=8-6&keywords=23119B]Vertex Piston Kit[/url] You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long...
Get this;
Hot Rods bottom end kit

and this;
Vertex Piston Kit

You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long as the platting on the cylinder is good, your only into the motor for $450. Leaves you $150 left for miscellaneous parts you might need once you get in there an see whats what.

Don't forget a flywheel puller too. Follow the manual and youtube videos and you'll have no problem doing it yourself.
Also make sure you drill the piston at the exhaust bridge. Check Thumpertalk for more details on that.
Ok awesome! How likely is it I'll need a bottom end? Or is it just better to do it while I'm in there anyway? And that $150 will probably be tranny parts I'm assumming.

As far as seals, what will I need (Or should I replace)

YZ125H1 Sick!!! thanks for the link. Looks manageable but I might find a way to change that lol.

luckyguy19
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luckyguy19 8/14/2014 11:00am
8/14/2014 11:00am
If you splitting the cases, you might as well do the crank. That bottom end kit will come with all the gaskets and seals you need for the whole motor, as well as crank bearings. The only other thing you'll need is a tube of Yamabond to seal the case halves together. Use only Yamabond! That stuff is the best, even Porsche guys use it for their old air cooled motors. You can get the Tusk tools from Rockymountainatv.

If you need help, post here, I'm sure many of us on here have done these motors and can walk you through any hang ups.

Pit Row

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HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 11:05am
8/14/2014 11:05am
luckyguy19 wrote:
If you splitting the cases, you might as well do the crank. That bottom end kit will come with all the gaskets and seals you need...
If you splitting the cases, you might as well do the crank. That bottom end kit will come with all the gaskets and seals you need for the whole motor, as well as crank bearings. The only other thing you'll need is a tube of Yamabond to seal the case halves together. Use only Yamabond! That stuff is the best, even Porsche guys use it for their old air cooled motors. You can get the Tusk tools from Rockymountainatv.

If you need help, post here, I'm sure many of us on here have done these motors and can walk you through any hang ups.
Awesome.. looks like I'm the real lucky guy with all this help (I'm so punny)

Now what are your thoughts on the leaky drain bolt? Stripped threads? I replaced the crush washer and it slowed the leak, but it still drips.
luckyguy19
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luckyguy19 8/14/2014 11:07am
8/14/2014 11:07am
I had the same problem with mine, previous owner stripped it and re tapped off center. I drilled and tapped it to the next bigger size while I had the motor apart. No problems now. You can pick up the next size larger drain plug from an auto parts store.
JA946
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JA946 8/14/2014 11:14am
8/14/2014 11:14am
luckyguy19 wrote:
Get this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Rods-CBK0090-Bottom-End/dp/B0068ER4CE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408037959&sr=8-1&keywords=CBK0090]Hot Rods bottom end kit[/url] and this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Vertex-Piston-Kit-Standard-53-94mm/dp/B003177TAI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408038114&sr=8-6&keywords=23119B]Vertex Piston Kit[/url] You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long...
Get this;
Hot Rods bottom end kit

and this;
Vertex Piston Kit

You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long as the platting on the cylinder is good, your only into the motor for $450. Leaves you $150 left for miscellaneous parts you might need once you get in there an see whats what.

Don't forget a flywheel puller too. Follow the manual and youtube videos and you'll have no problem doing it yourself.
Also make sure you drill the piston at the exhaust bridge. Check Thumpertalk for more details on that.
DO NOT BUY THIS BOTTOM END KIT, BUY OEM
Matt Fisher
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Matt Fisher 8/14/2014 11:33am
8/14/2014 11:33am
+1 on the tusk tools. You'll need a flywheel puller, case splitter, and crank installer/puller.

Although I have not found a good place online to buy seals from, I've bought lots of bearings from vxb.com. In most cases, the bearings in dirtbikes are nothing special, they're average sizes. I few minutes with some Harbor Freight dial calipers and place the order. Just make sure you're using good quality Japan or US bearings, nothing from Taiwan or China.

I'm going to say wait on ordering any parts until you have it apart. The crank may look and measure out perfect.

Hondabond works just as well as Yamabond, imo.


As you get into the motor, you may want to start a thread in the tech section. As mentioned, there's lots of experience here. I split the cases on my buddy's 2010 YZ125 the other day, and completely rebuilt my son's 05 YZ125 last year.
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 12:24pm
8/14/2014 12:24pm
luckyguy19 wrote:
Get this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Rods-CBK0090-Bottom-End/dp/B0068ER4CE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408037959&sr=8-1&keywords=CBK0090]Hot Rods bottom end kit[/url] and this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Vertex-Piston-Kit-Standard-53-94mm/dp/B003177TAI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408038114&sr=8-6&keywords=23119B]Vertex Piston Kit[/url] You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long...
Get this;
Hot Rods bottom end kit

and this;
Vertex Piston Kit

You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long as the platting on the cylinder is good, your only into the motor for $450. Leaves you $150 left for miscellaneous parts you might need once you get in there an see whats what.

Don't forget a flywheel puller too. Follow the manual and youtube videos and you'll have no problem doing it yourself.
Also make sure you drill the piston at the exhaust bridge. Check Thumpertalk for more details on that.
JA946 wrote:
DO NOT BUY THIS BOTTOM END KIT, BUY OEM
Reasoning? Bad company?
luckyguy19
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luckyguy19 8/14/2014 12:28pm
8/14/2014 12:28pm
luckyguy19 wrote:
Get this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Rods-CBK0090-Bottom-End/dp/B0068ER4CE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408037959&sr=8-1&keywords=CBK0090]Hot Rods bottom end kit[/url] and this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Vertex-Piston-Kit-Standard-53-94mm/dp/B003177TAI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408038114&sr=8-6&keywords=23119B]Vertex Piston Kit[/url] You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long...
Get this;
Hot Rods bottom end kit

and this;
Vertex Piston Kit

You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long as the platting on the cylinder is good, your only into the motor for $450. Leaves you $150 left for miscellaneous parts you might need once you get in there an see whats what.

Don't forget a flywheel puller too. Follow the manual and youtube videos and you'll have no problem doing it yourself.
Also make sure you drill the piston at the exhaust bridge. Check Thumpertalk for more details on that.
JA946 wrote:
DO NOT BUY THIS BOTTOM END KIT, BUY OEM
Why? Hotrods are know to be quality kits. Its the Weisco kits I would stay away from.
JA946
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JA946 8/14/2014 12:30pm
8/14/2014 12:30pm
luckyguy19 wrote:
Get this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Rods-CBK0090-Bottom-End/dp/B0068ER4CE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1408037959&sr=8-1&keywords=CBK0090]Hot Rods bottom end kit[/url] and this; [url=http://www.amazon.com/Vertex-Piston-Kit-Standard-53-94mm/dp/B003177TAI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1408038114&sr=8-6&keywords=23119B]Vertex Piston Kit[/url] You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long...
Get this;
Hot Rods bottom end kit

and this;
Vertex Piston Kit

You can get the Tusk case splitter and crank puller for $150. As long as the platting on the cylinder is good, your only into the motor for $450. Leaves you $150 left for miscellaneous parts you might need once you get in there an see whats what.

Don't forget a flywheel puller too. Follow the manual and youtube videos and you'll have no problem doing it yourself.
Also make sure you drill the piston at the exhaust bridge. Check Thumpertalk for more details on that.
JA946 wrote:
DO NOT BUY THIS BOTTOM END KIT, BUY OEM
HazemG wrote:
Reasoning? Bad company?
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/anyone-have…

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Hot-Rods-crank-vs-OEM,125…

OEM or have yours rebuilt by crank works up north in Phoenix.
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 12:48pm
8/14/2014 12:48pm Edited Date/Time 8/14/2014 12:49pm
JA946 wrote:
DO NOT BUY THIS BOTTOM END KIT, BUY OEM
HazemG wrote:
Reasoning? Bad company?
JA946 wrote:
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/anyone-have…

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Hot-Rods-crank-vs-OEM,125…

OEM or have yours rebuilt by crank works up north in Phoenix.
That's weird because crank works uses hot rod parts to rebuild, literally just spoke with him Blink

Unless it's just a balance issue and not one of quality
HazemG
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HazemG 8/14/2014 7:46pm
8/14/2014 7:46pm
JA946 wrote:
http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/anyone-have…

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Hot-Rods-crank-vs-OEM,125…

OEM or have yours rebuilt by crank works up north in Phoenix.
How about this crank? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Crankshaft-Assy-05-11-YZ125-2005-2011-YZ…


OR is this what I need if I want to go OEM brand new? Or would I need bearings also etc? http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/oem-parts/YAMAHA/2005/YZ125/CRANKSHAF…



I think I am going to go with a Vertex piston, this size is what I need, right? http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/2005-yamaha-yz125--Vertex-2Stroke-Pis…
hillbilly
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hillbilly 8/14/2014 8:12pm
8/14/2014 8:12pm
If you dont have a press to install the crank bearings spray wd40 on them,stick them in a zip lock and lay in the freezer overnite.

Take a propane torch and heat the bearing seat in the case half using a circling motion.

Get hot to the touch,just about to the point of sizzling spit on your finger.

Grab a bearing out the freezer and it will slip right in.
HazemG
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HazemG 8/15/2014 6:22am
8/15/2014 6:22am
hillbilly wrote:
If you dont have a press to install the crank bearings spray wd40 on them,stick them in a zip lock and lay in the freezer overnite...
If you dont have a press to install the crank bearings spray wd40 on them,stick them in a zip lock and lay in the freezer overnite.

Take a propane torch and heat the bearing seat in the case half using a circling motion.

Get hot to the touch,just about to the point of sizzling spit on your finger.

Grab a bearing out the freezer and it will slip right in.
Thanks hill! Good info!! Could you or someone help me on choosing which crank?? I'm wanting to place my order today

This one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Crankshaft-Assy-05-11-YZ125-2005-2011-YZ…


OR is this what I need if I want to go OEM brand new? Or would I need bearings also etc? http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/oem-parts/YAMAHA/2005/YZ125/CRANKSHAF…



I think I am going to go with a Vertex piston, this size is what I need, right? http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/2005-yamaha-yz125--Vertex-2Stroke-Pis…
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