Is this how Roger really sees things?

10/24/2020 2:09pm Edited Date/Time 10/24/2020 2:12pm
So Industry guy makes two points. One is completely on the nose and the other seems way off. 1. Industry guy says that everything goes through...
So Industry guy makes two points. One is completely on the nose and the other seems way off.

1. Industry guy says that everything goes through roger and suggests some micromanaging all the way down to bike setup, but fails to realize that this is really the special sauce. Fast guys are a different breed and mostly headcases. Riders can overthink their setups and get stuck over testing and changing setups. When chasing setups fails, the make excuses and blame bike changes. Riders surrounded by yes men can go off the rails if left to their own devices. Webb was on that path, in my opinion. Roger is the guy that says, “your clamp offset is fine, you need to shut up and ride the bike”. This forces the rider to assume their portion of responsibility for the results. If the rider complies, they almost universally improve their results. If the rider isn’t receptive, they’re moved on. Roger’s ability to crack the whip on althetes is indeed a talent that few have and it’s a hallmark of great coaches in many other sports too (Bill Belichic in American football and Alex Ferguson in English soccer are great examples of coaches who knew how to push personal responsibility onto their players and shed the ones who weren’t prepared to accept it). Roger denying riders’ requests is part of what makes his riders better.

2. As for the Gas Gas second tier claim, this on is a bit more dubious. KTM group needs to sell a new product line to American customers. Husky had the benefit of a known name but Gas Gas is an unknown quantity for most US consumers. The point of racing is to market your product, and the best advertising is success in racing. Gas Gas will need to produce some big results within the first five years if they want to stake a claim in the US markets.
Neverclear wrote:
All great points. There are a lot of guys at that level that won't be receptive to "the bike is fine, stop whining and go ride"...
All great points. There are a lot of guys at that level that won't be receptive to "the bike is fine, stop whining and go ride" style of leadership. They will end up blaming RD when things fail.

(And btw, that's "Sir" Alex Ferguson to us mere mortals.)
To be a good leader you need to be a good follower as well. Guys that aren’t receptive absolutely either do not see the big picture, or they refuse to be a part of it. You either continue with success in the team by being receptive and having a big picture outlook or you don’t, otherwise another young gun that is receptive will fill your spot.


Dungey fine example. Big picture guy. Even roger admitted RD Was his own worst enemy at times and roger needed to snap him back to earth. And RD was receptive. And that’s why he was so successful with championships. Receptive, leadership and talent.
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ktmfun219
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10/24/2020 6:41pm
ZOBITO wrote:
If DeCoster is so afraid of KTM getting beat, why does he keep Musquin year after year?
ktmfun219 wrote:
This -zero ROI with MM. LOL.
Question wrote:
I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department ;) Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut...

I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department Wink

Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut and nice style is selling, and selling well globally ; France is quite like the california of europe in term of market, we have the most tracks too, come to a race and you will see an orange wave.

Yes no 450 title but there is only 1 winner and being top 20 in the all-time points, with 7 top 3 in championship standings (almost 8 with this year for a few points), whereas he is in 450 since 2016 only is not too shabby either.

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Career-Stats-Most-Superc…

https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/marvin-musquin/points
Mr. Question from France,
Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware of and based my short initial comment, which is my opinion.

My comment was based on working for a 100 year old private 1 bil American company that has trained me for 27 years in safety, quality, marketing, finance, employee performance, employee retention, employee termination, mentoring, profit/loss etc. I do have experience to support my opinion. Right or wrong.

I have worked under contract with Japanese, French, German, Austrian and Rednecks firms.

After 10 years MM does not meet my expectations for employee retention.
Enough said. Hope we have a 2021 season for all!
MKL.
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numbers
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10/24/2020 6:48pm
RMT wrote:
So when Keith Mcarty tells riders not to screw with the bike, he needs to go, but when RD does, he is a leader. Ok.
Yeah, because the Yamaha 450 program has been so successful in the past 10 years.....and KTM has done so poorly. That's the difference.
KTM has more paid top prospects than any other brand, they should have success. If Kawasaki had 7 of the top ten riders on green you'd think they were dominant.
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8tensolutions
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10/24/2020 7:12pm
RMT wrote:
So when Keith Mcarty tells riders not to screw with the bike, he needs to go, but when RD does, he is a leader. Ok.
Yeah, because the Yamaha 450 program has been so successful in the past 10 years.....and KTM has done so poorly. That's the difference.
numbers wrote:
KTM has more paid top prospects than any other brand, they should have success. If Kawasaki had 7 of the top ten riders on green you'd...
KTM has more paid top prospects than any other brand, they should have success. If Kawasaki had 7 of the top ten riders on green you'd think they were dominant.
How can you not attribute a significant amount of Suzuki and KTM's success in the US to Roger is beyond me. The bike was a joke when he got there and Ryan followed and they built a bike around the rider together. Not to mention....I guess Barcia, Stewart, and Webb were not top prospects?
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The Shop

numbers
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10/24/2020 7:23pm
Yeah, because the Yamaha 450 program has been so successful in the past 10 years.....and KTM has done so poorly. That's the difference.
numbers wrote:
KTM has more paid top prospects than any other brand, they should have success. If Kawasaki had 7 of the top ten riders on green you'd...
KTM has more paid top prospects than any other brand, they should have success. If Kawasaki had 7 of the top ten riders on green you'd think they were dominant.
How can you not attribute a significant amount of Suzuki and KTM's success in the US to Roger is beyond me. The bike was a joke...
How can you not attribute a significant amount of Suzuki and KTM's success in the US to Roger is beyond me. The bike was a joke when he got there and Ryan followed and they built a bike around the rider together. Not to mention....I guess Barcia, Stewart, and Webb were not top prospects?
So everything in the GPS is roger.
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CPR
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10/24/2020 8:05pm
ktmfun219 wrote:
This -zero ROI with MM. LOL.
Question wrote:
I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department ;) Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut...

I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department Wink

Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut and nice style is selling, and selling well globally ; France is quite like the california of europe in term of market, we have the most tracks too, come to a race and you will see an orange wave.

Yes no 450 title but there is only 1 winner and being top 20 in the all-time points, with 7 top 3 in championship standings (almost 8 with this year for a few points), whereas he is in 450 since 2016 only is not too shabby either.

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Career-Stats-Most-Superc…

https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/marvin-musquin/points
ktmfun219 wrote:
Mr. Question from France, Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware...
Mr. Question from France,
Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware of and based my short initial comment, which is my opinion.

My comment was based on working for a 100 year old private 1 bil American company that has trained me for 27 years in safety, quality, marketing, finance, employee performance, employee retention, employee termination, mentoring, profit/loss etc. I do have experience to support my opinion. Right or wrong.

I have worked under contract with Japanese, French, German, Austrian and Rednecks firms.

After 10 years MM does not meet my expectations for employee retention.
Enough said. Hope we have a 2021 season for all!
MKL.
I don’t think 27 years training was enough for you if you don’t think Musquin meets employee retention expectations.

Then again if you don’t get it after 27 years, likely you never will......or your professional background has fuck all to do with moto?
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jemcee
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10/24/2020 8:23pm
CPR wrote:
I don’t think 27 years training was enough for you if you don’t think Musquin meets employee retention expectations. Then again if you don’t get it...
I don’t think 27 years training was enough for you if you don’t think Musquin meets employee retention expectations.

Then again if you don’t get it after 27 years, likely you never will......or your professional background has fuck all to do with moto?
Enough said I reckon


Fuck old mate must have fired some dudes in his 27 years if that's not good enough for his performance level..
Unless of course he's completely full of shit.. But surely that couldn't be it
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kiwifan
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10/24/2020 8:37pm
Dutch348 wrote:
I still don’t get why KTM has three separate teams now, on the same bike, named after old companies they bought out. What is the point...
I still don’t get why KTM has three separate teams now, on the same bike, named after old companies they bought out. What is the point of that? Are they gonna buy out Suzuki next? Wtf
BRX-WRX wrote:
A few months ago I read a Pit Baur interveiw in cycle news and maybe I read it wrong. But he said he wants to put...
A few months ago I read a Pit Baur interveiw in cycle news and maybe I read it wrong. But he said he wants to put the Japanese out of business.
All the Japanese manufacturers (including Suzuki) are very big ...although they may give up on the offroad/mx market (I am sure a lot of vitards would want only Austrian bikes available), they will never go out of business.

If it wasnt for Red Bull's huge sponsorship of KTM then they would of not being able to do what they have done thus far, it has allowed them to put very little money into race teams and give a lot of it to their R&D teams.
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Question
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10/25/2020 1:34am
ktmfun219 wrote:
This -zero ROI with MM. LOL.
Question wrote:
I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department ;) Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut...

I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department Wink

Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut and nice style is selling, and selling well globally ; France is quite like the california of europe in term of market, we have the most tracks too, come to a race and you will see an orange wave.

Yes no 450 title but there is only 1 winner and being top 20 in the all-time points, with 7 top 3 in championship standings (almost 8 with this year for a few points), whereas he is in 450 since 2016 only is not too shabby either.

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Career-Stats-Most-Superc…

https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/marvin-musquin/points
ktmfun219 wrote:
Mr. Question from France, Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware...
Mr. Question from France,
Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware of and based my short initial comment, which is my opinion.

My comment was based on working for a 100 year old private 1 bil American company that has trained me for 27 years in safety, quality, marketing, finance, employee performance, employee retention, employee termination, mentoring, profit/loss etc. I do have experience to support my opinion. Right or wrong.

I have worked under contract with Japanese, French, German, Austrian and Rednecks firms.

After 10 years MM does not meet my expectations for employee retention.
Enough said. Hope we have a 2021 season for all!
MKL.
Thanks for the answer, I appreciate the debate too, but I have credentials as well.

I won't list it all to not make a pissing contest but for instance I wrote or co wrote 4 master degree thesis in the last 5 years including 1 in HR, on talent management (attraction, motivation and retention of talents). It was a pretty nice one, the biggest meta analysis globally, compiling 10,5 millions employees interviews, thousands of ceos, chros, talent managers, talent recruiters, listing all best practices from more than 50 world class organizations, etc).

Also, I would add that Musquin has a pretty high ROI because the fact he didn't win a premier title (yet) while finishing multiple times on the podium is saving big bucks to his employer Wink (1 title = I read that Webb get 1 million more as base salary all the seasons after)
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RalphS
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10/25/2020 2:04am
Question wrote:
I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department ;) Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut...

I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department Wink

Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut and nice style is selling, and selling well globally ; France is quite like the california of europe in term of market, we have the most tracks too, come to a race and you will see an orange wave.

Yes no 450 title but there is only 1 winner and being top 20 in the all-time points, with 7 top 3 in championship standings (almost 8 with this year for a few points), whereas he is in 450 since 2016 only is not too shabby either.

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Career-Stats-Most-Superc…

https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/marvin-musquin/points
ktmfun219 wrote:
Mr. Question from France, Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware...
Mr. Question from France,
Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware of and based my short initial comment, which is my opinion.

My comment was based on working for a 100 year old private 1 bil American company that has trained me for 27 years in safety, quality, marketing, finance, employee performance, employee retention, employee termination, mentoring, profit/loss etc. I do have experience to support my opinion. Right or wrong.

I have worked under contract with Japanese, French, German, Austrian and Rednecks firms.

After 10 years MM does not meet my expectations for employee retention.
Enough said. Hope we have a 2021 season for all!
MKL.
Question wrote:
Thanks for the answer, I appreciate the debate too, but I have credentials as well. I won't list it all to not make a pissing contest...
Thanks for the answer, I appreciate the debate too, but I have credentials as well.

I won't list it all to not make a pissing contest but for instance I wrote or co wrote 4 master degree thesis in the last 5 years including 1 in HR, on talent management (attraction, motivation and retention of talents). It was a pretty nice one, the biggest meta analysis globally, compiling 10,5 millions employees interviews, thousands of ceos, chros, talent managers, talent recruiters, listing all best practices from more than 50 world class organizations, etc).

Also, I would add that Musquin has a pretty high ROI because the fact he didn't win a premier title (yet) while finishing multiple times on the podium is saving big bucks to his employer Wink (1 title = I read that Webb get 1 million more as base salary all the seasons after)
The 2 of you should get a cabin in wyoming and have your own brokenback mountain dick measuring show.

Such a couple Elon Musk geniuses arguing on vital instead of saving the world, what a waste of time and talent.

Nah they're like 13 yo and the only master they've is in fortnite 🤣
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10/25/2020 6:16am
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express so I'm pretty much an expert on every subject.

Before he was kicked upstairs his job was to use the budget he was given to provide the most dialed in bike to each of his riders. Some racers can convey what they want/need done to be comfy and faster. Some can't. Either way, Roger and crew are there to get the machine in the sweet spot (not so easy considering the track conditions are so variable).

Secondary, but just as important is the personal interactions he has with the team. His primary mission is to provide results and in order to achieve optimal performance from his guys he has to "read" each one and feed them what they need...at that moment. ("Get the fuck out there and do your job" ....doesn't work).

There isn't time to mention the million other responsibilities he's had (all team managers for that matter).

By any measure, I'd say Roger DeCoster has been very successful. If he has been told to favor any of the three brands...he may not like it but I suspect he will do his job.
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seth505
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10/25/2020 7:03am
ktmfun219 wrote:
Mr. Question from France, Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware...
Mr. Question from France,
Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware of and based my short initial comment, which is my opinion.

My comment was based on working for a 100 year old private 1 bil American company that has trained me for 27 years in safety, quality, marketing, finance, employee performance, employee retention, employee termination, mentoring, profit/loss etc. I do have experience to support my opinion. Right or wrong.

I have worked under contract with Japanese, French, German, Austrian and Rednecks firms.

After 10 years MM does not meet my expectations for employee retention.
Enough said. Hope we have a 2021 season for all!
MKL.
Sounds like your company has poor training if this is your “informed” opinion on Marvin.
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spimx
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10/25/2020 7:27am
ktmfun219 wrote:
This -zero ROI with MM. LOL.
ZOBITO wrote:
Maybe MM25 is tax deductible?
Wink
Crazy that Vital guys will talk shit about a rider that is probably top 5-10 fastest in the world top 2-3 in the championship year after year. No one is safe lol. Also Marvin is also a great ambassador for the team, real professional and classy guy
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spimx
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10/25/2020 7:38am
ktmfun219 wrote:
Mr. Question from France, Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware...
Mr. Question from France,
Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware of and based my short initial comment, which is my opinion.

My comment was based on working for a 100 year old private 1 bil American company that has trained me for 27 years in safety, quality, marketing, finance, employee performance, employee retention, employee termination, mentoring, profit/loss etc. I do have experience to support my opinion. Right or wrong.

I have worked under contract with Japanese, French, German, Austrian and Rednecks firms.

After 10 years MM does not meet my expectations for employee retention.
Enough said. Hope we have a 2021 season for all!
MKL.
Just by reading this and seeing Marvin with multiple wins monster energy cup win top 5 if not second in the championship year after year.

Have you ever been second best employee in your industry?
Marvin probably out performs you???
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10/26/2020 9:11am
Skuzzy29 wrote:
From the Pulp column: [url=http://pulpmx.com/2020/10/20/what-people-are-saying/]http://pulpmx.com/2020/10/20/what-people-are-saying/[/url] TOPIC: What is going on with the Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull KTM, now Gas Gas, team? What’s the problem over there...
From the Pulp column: http://pulpmx.com/2020/10/20/what-people-are-saying/

TOPIC: What is going on with the Troy Lee Designs/Red Bull KTM, now Gas Gas, team? What’s the problem over there?

INDUSTRY GUY: Honestly, it seems like it’s pass the buck a little bit. They don’t have the ability to do whatever they want. If they want to cut their subframe 12 millimeters, they can’t just do that. Everything runs through KTM, through Ian (Harrison), through Roger. When things don’t pan out, I think it’s Roger that is kind of like… Honestly, I would just say it starts from the top. It’s not Robert Jones. It’s Roger. He’s putting the brakes on a lot of things just based on how he feels. I firmly believe he wants orange to be one, white to be two, and red to be three, and that should not be the thinking with somebody in his shirt. That should not be the thinking.

RIDER: For instance, when they were going for Barcia, Roger and Ian were pushing for Savatgy. Gas Gas kept going, why? That was when Justin was winning a race. Everybody thought that, “Well, if they get Barcia, maybe Barcia beats us and it looks bad at KTM.” That’s Roger’s thinking. And he doesn’t want them to beat him. So Joey, he’s not threatened by Joey. So he was like, we’ll just put him over there. It was like, Gas Gas is doing okay, but they’re not great. So that was a big talking point.
In a lot of racing the rider/driver has little to do with the development of the bike. When an F1 team makes changes it has to do with telemetry and lap/segment timing more than rider feel.
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APLMAN99
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10/26/2020 5:34pm
ktmfun219 wrote:
This -zero ROI with MM. LOL.
Question wrote:
I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department ;) Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut...

I will bring some popcorn too so fortunately you don't work as team manager or in a marketing department Wink

Musquin with his Dungey-like clean cut and nice style is selling, and selling well globally ; France is quite like the california of europe in term of market, we have the most tracks too, come to a race and you will see an orange wave.

Yes no 450 title but there is only 1 winner and being top 20 in the all-time points, with 7 top 3 in championship standings (almost 8 with this year for a few points), whereas he is in 450 since 2016 only is not too shabby either.

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Career-Stats-Most-Superc…

https://vault.racerxonline.com/rider/marvin-musquin/points
ktmfun219 wrote:
Mr. Question from France, Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware...
Mr. Question from France,
Appreciate your response as debates and opinions are always appreciated. I respect your France based opinion and statistics that I was aware of and based my short initial comment, which is my opinion.

My comment was based on working for a 100 year old private 1 bil American company that has trained me for 27 years in safety, quality, marketing, finance, employee performance, employee retention, employee termination, mentoring, profit/loss etc. I do have experience to support my opinion. Right or wrong.

I have worked under contract with Japanese, French, German, Austrian and Rednecks firms.

After 10 years MM does not meet my expectations for employee retention.
Enough said. Hope we have a 2021 season for all!
MKL.
I don’t think you are being serious, or at least aren’t looking at this objectively.

Are you inferring that every single employee that you have is cut loose (not retained) if they are not in the top 4-5% of their profession in the world? Or even the top 4-5% of their profession? I highly doubt that.

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cable
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10/26/2020 5:55pm
what years did decoster run suzuki? 1994-? hires albertyn and wins one title in 5 years. albertyn later says the bike was garbage. had swink who, could have had an entirely different career on any other brand. How many 250 sx wins did they get? 1? besides mcgrath? Mcgrath couldnt keep the bike low as it was so slow.. He went from cruising to wins, to using everything he had to get a win. ktm is stacking the deck with all the teams and riders on the track, for sx anyway.
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10/26/2020 6:18pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2020 6:26pm
Roger is the single best thing that ever happened to motocross in the USA. No other single person is even close. Let’s compare his accomplishments to current team managers for discussion sake. Both on the bike and as manager. Who holds a candle?

https://youtu.be/I7lXKPZ_jpk
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10/26/2020 6:59pm
Ok gforce, Joel Smets, 5 x world champion, many time MXON winner as rider and team manager, who has also managed just as many titles as Roger, he is Rogers boss afterall.

10/26/2020 7:09pm
Ok gforce, Joel Smets, 5 x world champion, many time MXON winner as rider and team manager, who has also managed just as many titles as...
Ok gforce, Joel Smets, 5 x world champion, many time MXON winner as rider and team manager, who has also managed just as many titles as Roger, he is Rogers boss afterall.

Joel is legend for sure but per my post what has Joel done for motocross in the USA?
Bearuno
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10/27/2020 2:41am Edited Date/Time 10/27/2020 8:27am
Ok gforce, Joel Smets, 5 x world champion, many time MXON winner as rider and team manager, who has also managed just as many titles as...
Ok gforce, Joel Smets, 5 x world champion, many time MXON winner as rider and team manager, who has also managed just as many titles as Roger, he is Rogers boss afterall.

No, he is Not Rogers Boss.

I've huge, nay, Massive respect for Joel, with his Titles and managing the Belgian MXDN Team, (and his coming to OZ to ride in the A4DE, on Husaberg and the, BMW ) but he's not the KTM Europe Motocross Team Manager. He certainly works within the Team, very much with various riders, but it's Dirk Greubel that's the Red Bull KTM Motocross Team Manager, in Europe. Then , of course, you have Claudio DeCarli, with his set up.

If anyone's Rogers 'boss', it's Pit Beirer. He's the 'boss' of all their racing. That's why you see him at pretty much every type of World Championship event KTM are participating in. A very busy man. Though I doubt Pit would 'boss' Roger around much. "The Man's" a deserved Legend of our sport.

Ultimately, it all comes under Stefan Pierer's control, at the very top. There's the Big Boss.

I have to say this, as it seems many believe Roger was The man behind the single cam 450 :

I saw one of, if not 2 of, the Rauchenecker brothers ( and other riders) racing the Single Cam EXC based engine, in Austrian, and other European races, long before Roger went to KTM USA. The KTM Factory / Engineers, had already set in motion the use of that engine, through the full line of KTMs' 450 and 511cc bikes. Roger certainly has had a fair bit to do with it's subsequent developments, on the US side, but he wasn't the creator of it.

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