Is the sport getting too soft?

10/26/2022 8:31am
With everyone up in arms about Vince trying to take out JB, there was an absolute shit ton of money on the line, while I don’t agree with the takeout, I totally understand it.
Back when Ricky James and Chad were racing, they were about ready to kill each other to not finish second, for an individual race win, and that was possibly the most exciting era ever..
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LungButter
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10/26/2022 8:33am
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it.

Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit on someone is not racing, it's pure trash and probably illegal on several levels I'd imagine.
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10/26/2022 8:36am
LungButter wrote:
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it. Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit...
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it.

Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit on someone is not racing, it's pure trash and probably illegal on several levels I'd imagine.
I 100% agree..
But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet..
If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up..
But between mates as a “give ya 2k to clean him out” but u don’t really mean it.. that’s the main decider I guess
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LungButter
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10/26/2022 8:42am
I 100% agree.. But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet.. If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up.. But...
I 100% agree..
But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet..
If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up..
But between mates as a “give ya 2k to clean him out” but u don’t really mean it.. that’s the main decider I guess
You're right, we'll never know for sure.... but it sure don't look like just a joke when Vince's mechanic and Harlan are talking on the starting line.

I also think if it was a joke that when Brayton asked Harlan about it he woulda told JB it was all a joke.

I've defended Vince in the past but he's crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed at this point.

It'll actually be pretty sad if Genova just does nothing.
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davistld01
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10/26/2022 8:44am
I 100% agree.. But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet.. If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up.. But...
I 100% agree..
But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet..
If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up..
But between mates as a “give ya 2k to clean him out” but u don’t really mean it.. that’s the main decider I guess
LungButter wrote:
You're right, we'll never know for sure.... but it sure don't look like just a joke when Vince's mechanic and Harlan are talking on the starting...
You're right, we'll never know for sure.... but it sure don't look like just a joke when Vince's mechanic and Harlan are talking on the starting line.

I also think if it was a joke that when Brayton asked Harlan about it he woulda told JB it was all a joke.

I've defended Vince in the past but he's crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed at this point.

It'll actually be pretty sad if Genova just does nothing.
I also think if it was a joke" that when Brayton asked Harlan about it he woulda told JB it was all a joke."

Right there.
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The Shop

10/26/2022 8:46am
I 100% agree.. But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet.. If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up.. But...
I 100% agree..
But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet..
If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up..
But between mates as a “give ya 2k to clean him out” but u don’t really mean it.. that’s the main decider I guess
LungButter wrote:
You're right, we'll never know for sure.... but it sure don't look like just a joke when Vince's mechanic and Harlan are talking on the starting...
You're right, we'll never know for sure.... but it sure don't look like just a joke when Vince's mechanic and Harlan are talking on the starting line.

I also think if it was a joke that when Brayton asked Harlan about it he woulda told JB it was all a joke.

I've defended Vince in the past but he's crossed a line that shouldn't be crossed at this point.

It'll actually be pretty sad if Genova just does nothing.
davistld01 wrote:
I also think if it was a joke" that when Brayton asked Harlan about it he woulda told JB it was all a joke."

Right there.
100% but have they actually talked? Serious question..
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Magoofan
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10/26/2022 8:46am
Given the amount of people who lose their shit over Barcia and Friese contact racing, I would say yes...it's gotten soft.

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stremme12
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10/26/2022 8:50am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2022 8:50am
With everyone up in arms about Vince trying to take out JB, there was an absolute shit ton of money on the line, while I don’t...
With everyone up in arms about Vince trying to take out JB, there was an absolute shit ton of money on the line, while I don’t agree with the takeout, I totally understand it.
Back when Ricky James and Chad were racing, they were about ready to kill each other to not finish second, for an individual race win, and that was possibly the most exciting era ever..
Are you sure there was a shit ton of money on the line? In Justin's interview with Pulp he said there was zero difference in any money in what place he finished. His contract wasn't structured with incentives like that. We don't know if Vince's contract was the same way either. Sounds like Brayton was just paid to show up. Vince could've have a similar contract.
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LungButter
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10/26/2022 8:52am
100% but have they actually talked? Serious question..
Brayton said on the Pulp Show that he asked Harlan and Harlan confirmed it.
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nrosso391
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10/26/2022 8:56am
With everyone up in arms about Vince trying to take out JB, there was an absolute shit ton of money on the line, while I don’t...
With everyone up in arms about Vince trying to take out JB, there was an absolute shit ton of money on the line, while I don’t agree with the takeout, I totally understand it.
Back when Ricky James and Chad were racing, they were about ready to kill each other to not finish second, for an individual race win, and that was possibly the most exciting era ever..
First off, NOT a lot of money on the line for a pilot series.
2) Its a pilot series. Its 2 freaking races. Not enough to be considered a legitimate series.
3) Its his team mate and he turned right on a left hand turn where he would've most certainly got the holeshot if not 2nd at worst.
4) Enough is enough with his misuse of contact racing. It would be one thing if he's a legit title contender in any series, but he isn't. Even the FIM didn't see him as one, they didn't even talk to him before the 3rd race while he was leading points.
5) If found guilty of the bounty on Brayton, Instant lifetime ban. We don't need that in our sport. And for Vince its been a long time coming.
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Richy
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10/26/2022 9:09am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2022 9:28am
I don't agree with the behaviour at all if it was what went down, but there may well have been money on the line for Vince.

Brayton's contract did not have money on the line, neither making money nor losing money due to finishing position, correct. I assume he had a decent guaranteed salary Vs being incentive based. Older, wiser dude, more reliable money, good move for him.

Freise's contract may have?
MPJC
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10/26/2022 9:11am
This "soft" bullshit is nothing but phony machismo and a complete red herring. Toughness or lack thereof is not at issue.
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Richy
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10/26/2022 9:21am
MPJC wrote:
This "soft" bullshit is nothing but phony machismo and a complete red herring. Toughness or lack thereof is not at issue.
100% man, hit the nail on the head.

Every time someone does something with no honour, no sportsmanship or no respect, and most people inevitably don't like it, there's the few guys waiting to say they're just soft or the sports turning soft... Ridiculous.

Funny thing is last time it came up, someone pointed out that usually the "you're all pussys" crowd are the first to cry and moan to organisers or just plain overreact when something half as bad happens to them haha.
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stremme12
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10/26/2022 9:22am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2022 9:23am
Richy wrote:
I don't agree with the behaviour at all if it was what went down, but there may well have been money on the line for Vince...
I don't agree with the behaviour at all if it was what went down, but there may well have been money on the line for Vince.

Brayton's contract did not have money on the line, neither making money nor losing money due to finishing position, correct. I assume he had a decent guaranteed salary Vs being incentive based. Older, wiser dude, more reliable money, good move for him.

Freise's contract may have?
Where did you come up with Vince's contract numbers? Was it the Pulp show because that was all hypothetical speculation when they spoke about it and not factual. Brayton said he didn't know Vince's contract.
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ML512
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10/26/2022 9:27am
What do you classify as a “shit ton of money”?
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Richy
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10/26/2022 9:28am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2022 9:31am
Richy wrote:
I don't agree with the behaviour at all if it was what went down, but there may well have been money on the line for Vince...
I don't agree with the behaviour at all if it was what went down, but there may well have been money on the line for Vince.

Brayton's contract did not have money on the line, neither making money nor losing money due to finishing position, correct. I assume he had a decent guaranteed salary Vs being incentive based. Older, wiser dude, more reliable money, good move for him.

Freise's contract may have?
stremme12 wrote:
Where did you come up with Vince's contract numbers? Was it the Pulp show because that was all hypothetical speculation when they spoke about it and...
Where did you come up with Vince's contract numbers? Was it the Pulp show because that was all hypothetical speculation when they spoke about it and not factual. Brayton said he didn't know Vince's contract.
You're right man, just relistened to that section, thanks for clarifying, edited 👍

I heard Brayton mention 50k from Genova a couple of times and of course Keefer repeated it quite a bit later, but it does sound like it was a hypothetical.
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dinger212
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10/26/2022 9:33am
I think the problem is just a small brush stroke to what is happening everywhere. We now overreact to every bit of news, whether it’s political, sport related, or if someone farted across the street. Do we really need a discussion on every sniff of news?
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10/26/2022 9:43am
ML512 wrote:
What do you classify as a “shit ton of money”?
I honestly have no idea the purse/bonuses.. if you have more insight it could give more context to this..
If it’s only 10k on the line vs 500k then it changes everything..
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Bruce372
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10/26/2022 9:48am
The sport isn't going soft, it just lacks integrity.
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Bruce372
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10/26/2022 9:53am
After reading some of the only fans thread, this sport if definitely not getting hard.
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RaceFace58
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10/26/2022 9:53am
The only guys who made a shitload of money are Tomac and Roczen just for showing. Whatever purse they win helped. I doubt Kenny made all that much more for the title. I never heard WSX hyping the title winnings amongst all the other hype they brought. Oh wait, the WSX guys also made a shitload of money. The big winners.
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10/26/2022 10:04am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2022 10:23am
LungButter wrote:
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it. Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit...
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it.

Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit on someone is not racing, it's pure trash and probably illegal on several levels I'd imagine.
I 100% agree.. But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet.. If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up.. But...
I 100% agree..
But was it serious or banter? We still don’t know yet..
If he offered 2k for a takeout then it’s fucked up..
But between mates as a “give ya 2k to clean him out” but u don’t really mean it.. that’s the main decider I guess
There's no difference there once the idea has been floated in that manner. If you've done that, you've crossed a line. Even discussing "fixing" in a joking manner at a professional level needs to be penalized by a sport's sanctioning bodies.

Professionalism in competitive sports isn't some random abstract. It must be enforced, like it is in other real competitions. Are we really dealing with dumbass issues that MLB covered in 1919?

"Soft" really isn't the issue. It is the integrity of the competition.
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BigBoreFan58
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10/26/2022 10:14am
Racin is rubbin! And like him or not, Freeze is a racer.
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Tumic
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10/26/2022 11:15am
LungButter wrote:
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it. Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit...
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it.

Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit on someone is not racing, it's pure trash and probably illegal on several levels I'd imagine.
The rubbing is racing is something that is in the past now.

Look at Tomac and Sexton the last race, they kept it classy, same goes for MXGP last year, neither one of the guys tried some cheap shit.

Plenty of people here seems to think that it belongs in the sport, but clearly the fastest riders are of a different opinion.

I’d rather see riders race classy the whole season and not pulling some cunt moves the last race. The whole ”it’s for the title” argument don’t hold up there.
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10/26/2022 11:19am Edited Date/Time 10/26/2022 3:19pm
LungButter wrote:
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it. Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit...
My problem with it is Vince offering to pay a bounty for someone else to do it.

Rubbing is racing, paying someone to put a hit on someone is not racing, it's pure trash and probably illegal on several levels I'd imagine.
Tumic wrote:
The rubbing is racing is something that is in the past now. Look at Tomac and Sexton the last race, they kept it classy, same goes...
The rubbing is racing is something that is in the past now.

Look at Tomac and Sexton the last race, they kept it classy, same goes for MXGP last year, neither one of the guys tried some cheap shit.

Plenty of people here seems to think that it belongs in the sport, but clearly the fastest riders are of a different opinion.

I’d rather see riders race classy the whole season and not pulling some cunt moves the last race. The whole ”it’s for the title” argument don’t hold up there.
Isn't that line not from anybody involved in any form of racing, but from a Hollywood script designed to be highly dramatic?

"Rubbin is racing" as a competitive principle is the racing equivalent (and born of the same Hollywood sources) of boxing in a Rocky movie wherein a fighter leads with their face and competes through multiple bludgeonings, advancing by pure intrinsic toughness. It is somewhat cute as a narrative structure, but as a broader competitive concept about a profession that requres lifelong technical skills, it is 100% Nonsense.
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lestat
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10/26/2022 11:24am
There's no difference there once the idea has been floated in that manner. If you've done that, you've crossed a line. Even discussing "fixing" in a...
There's no difference there once the idea has been floated in that manner. If you've done that, you've crossed a line. Even discussing "fixing" in a joking manner at a professional level needs to be penalized by a sport's sanctioning bodies.

Professionalism in competitive sports isn't some random abstract. It must be enforced, like it is in other real competitions. Are we really dealing with dumbass issues that MLB covered in 1919?

"Soft" really isn't the issue. It is the integrity of the competition.
Well said . Your last line is the critical issue .
early
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10/26/2022 11:31am
Tumic wrote:
The rubbing is racing is something that is in the past now. Look at Tomac and Sexton the last race, they kept it classy, same goes...
The rubbing is racing is something that is in the past now.

Look at Tomac and Sexton the last race, they kept it classy, same goes for MXGP last year, neither one of the guys tried some cheap shit.

Plenty of people here seems to think that it belongs in the sport, but clearly the fastest riders are of a different opinion.

I’d rather see riders race classy the whole season and not pulling some cunt moves the last race. The whole ”it’s for the title” argument don’t hold up there.
While this is true, remember Osbornes pass on Savatgy? That was awesome.
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Magoofan
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10/26/2022 12:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/26/2022 12:24pm
early wrote:
While this is true, remember Osbornes pass on Savatgy? That was awesome.
Great example. Osbornes take out of Savatgy was epic and he's a hero for it.

Barcia/Friese do less than that and it's pitchforks for them.

Rubbing is racing is a thing of the past = Soft.


(I'm not defending Friese alleged part in offering money to take out Brayton, that's another issue all together).

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SGoodman
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10/26/2022 12:27pm
"Is the sport getting too corrupt?"

there... fixed it for ya!

We have no real sanctioning bodies... they only exist to put cash in their pockets and do the bidding of those writing the checks... not for the betterment of the sport, not for fair legit racing with actual rules that are enforced...
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SGoodman
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10/26/2022 12:28pm
Tumic wrote:
The rubbing is racing is something that is in the past now. Look at Tomac and Sexton the last race, they kept it classy, same goes...
The rubbing is racing is something that is in the past now.

Look at Tomac and Sexton the last race, they kept it classy, same goes for MXGP last year, neither one of the guys tried some cheap shit.

Plenty of people here seems to think that it belongs in the sport, but clearly the fastest riders are of a different opinion.

I’d rather see riders race classy the whole season and not pulling some cunt moves the last race. The whole ”it’s for the title” argument don’t hold up there.
early wrote:
While this is true, remember Osbornes pass on Savatgy? That was awesome.
proper pass, last race, last lap for a championship, the way it is supposed to be!
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msp332
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10/26/2022 12:29pm
Bountygate has no place in sports. The NFL responded to it appropriately in 2012 after the Saints had bounties to take out players.

The FIM and Genova are responsible for holding Vince and Ryan (Vince's mechanic) accountable. Their move.
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