Is the 350 REALLY 350cc?

bullpen58
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5/27/2010 6:12pm Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 5:50pm
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee to have it torn down? Just for old time's sake?

I mean seriously though, what would stop KTM from making their "350" into a 450? The rules allow it. It could be a big marketing scheme cover-up. If so, this is bigger news that watergate!

Either way, whether it's a 350 or a 450, it got the job done! Nice work Katoom.
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adamdf
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5/27/2010 6:25pm
I thought of this, but then i stopped thinking about it, and so should you..they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie, i mean if it was a 450, then they also make a 450! So then they would just market the 450! And not lie about it, make sense? Anyway, lets just drop this, i think KTM deserves credit for building a great machine, conspiracy theories would just ruin that for them, and in my opinion would be such a shame..the end
bullpen58
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5/27/2010 6:35pm
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie"

How do you know? Maybe there's something in it for them to lie?

Like, hmmmmm, let's say what if a company (KTM) made this big deal out of how they're gonna make a 350 to race the 450s but then since development of the bike was done at the last minute, they realized that the 350 wasn't competitive? Would they want to get their asses handed to them all season and then look like morons and not sell any 350s? Or would they want to bolt a 450cc (or whatever size) cylinder on there and keep telling everyone it's a 350 so that dipshits like us would rush out to buy one?

Who cares though eh? Let's just bury our heads in the sand and not ask any questions. Wouldn't want to upset the apple cart. Silly
bullpen58
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5/27/2010 6:40pm
Are you kidding me??? Maybe YOU can! LMAO!

If that were the case (hearing the difference) then the KX450s must be 900s because they sound . . . "beefy". LMAO!

The Shop

adamdf
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5/27/2010 6:42pm
bullpen58 wrote:
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie" How do you know...
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie"

How do you know? Maybe there's something in it for them to lie?

Like, hmmmmm, let's say what if a company (KTM) made this big deal out of how they're gonna make a 350 to race the 450s but then since development of the bike was done at the last minute, they realized that the 350 wasn't competitive? Would they want to get their asses handed to them all season and then look like morons and not sell any 350s? Or would they want to bolt a 450cc (or whatever size) cylinder on there and keep telling everyone it's a 350 so that dipshits like us would rush out to buy one?

Who cares though eh? Let's just bury our heads in the sand and not ask any questions. Wouldn't want to upset the apple cart. Silly
I understand what you are saying, but if mike continues to do well, at some point they are going to get inspected i would imagine...secondly, its not like they dont want to market the 450, if it was a 450 as i said, then mike would just ride the 450, and if he wins on it, then thats good marketing for them too, because once again, they sell a 450...
bullpen58
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5/27/2010 6:45pm
Yeah, but they'd have a pretty hard time selling those 350s that they had to "homologate" or whatever if they admitted to racing the 450. If they keep us believing he's winning on the 350 against 450s, they'd still sell 450s because the uninformed masses would wrongly assume (with our faulty logic) that the 450 must be "even better".

It probably IS a 350. I'm just asking how or IF anyone even knows for sure (besides team KTM).
5/27/2010 6:46pm
Dude, are you serious? Can you not hear the difference from a 250F and 450 also? Reminds me of people back in the day who used to say is that a 125 or 250? EVEN on TV I could hear the difference.
sxf138
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5/27/2010 6:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2010 6:48pm
There is a huge difference in the sound. I agree there is without a doubt work done to the motor, so its most likely not a 350cc on spec. Any why would KTM risk being ruind because of a market scheme.
adamdf
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5/27/2010 6:46pm
I have one question, what prompted this query? If it is because mike got the holeshot in moto2, lets not forget that RV waxed everyones ass at Budds Creek on a 250F for the MXDN in 2007...in my opinion, this is motocross, not MOTORcross, good handling and decent power easily beats all out power and heavy/average handling..
Gardner37
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5/27/2010 6:47pm
Rule number one:

Think before you type.
sdfog1
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5/27/2010 6:47pm
Homologation states that you have to run the cc's of the production bike...I don't see KTM not telling the truth about the bike at the risk of being disqualified. As stated above, you can also hear a higher pitched rev.
3D
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5/27/2010 7:08pm
It's a 410... Stroked 350.. Do the math.. Or meth...
5/27/2010 7:08pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 11:09pm
On a side note, I found a website with specs for the 2011's and after running the Kg weights thru an online converter here is what I got (without gas):

1. 250sx => 210.3 lbs
2. 250sx-f => 220.2 lbs
3. 350sx-f => 229.1 lbs
4. 450sx-f => 235.7 lbs
rc4187
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5/27/2010 7:17pm
On a side note, I found a website with specs for the 2011's and after running the Kg weights thru an online converter here is what...
On a side note, I found a website with specs for the 2011's and after running the Kg weights thru an online converter here is what I got (without gas):

1. 250sx => 210.3 lbs
2. 250sx-f => 220.2 lbs
3. 350sx-f => 229.1 lbs
4. 450sx-f => 235.7 lbs
Weege said Alessi's bike came through tech inspection at 230 lbs which is 10 lbs over the minimum weight limit. I'd say the bike isn't any lighter than anyone else's in the class.
DanDunes818
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5/27/2010 7:19pm
bullpen58 wrote:
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie" How do you know...
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie"

How do you know? Maybe there's something in it for them to lie?

Like, hmmmmm, let's say what if a company (KTM) made this big deal out of how they're gonna make a 350 to race the 450s but then since development of the bike was done at the last minute, they realized that the 350 wasn't competitive? Would they want to get their asses handed to them all season and then look like morons and not sell any 350s? Or would they want to bolt a 450cc (or whatever size) cylinder on there and keep telling everyone it's a 350 so that dipshits like us would rush out to buy one?

Who cares though eh? Let's just bury our heads in the sand and not ask any questions. Wouldn't want to upset the apple cart. Silly
This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard on vital.
bullpen58
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5/27/2010 7:31pm
On a side note, I found a website with specs for the 2011's and after running the Kg weights thru an online converter here is what...
On a side note, I found a website with specs for the 2011's and after running the Kg weights thru an online converter here is what I got (without gas):

1. 250sx => 210.3 lbs
2. 250sx-f => 220.2 lbs
3. 350sx-f => 229.1 lbs
4. 450sx-f => 235.7 lbs
rc4187 wrote:
Weege said Alessi's bike came through tech inspection at 230 lbs which is 10 lbs over the minimum weight limit. I'd say the bike isn't any...
Weege said Alessi's bike came through tech inspection at 230 lbs which is 10 lbs over the minimum weight limit. I'd say the bike isn't any lighter than anyone else's in the class.
I was gonna ask about THAT too! MA said on the podium that his bike is "lighter" and I was wondering, aren't all the top bikes at or very close to the weight limit?
bullpen58
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5/27/2010 7:32pm
sdfog1 wrote:
Homologation states that you have to run the cc's of the production bike...I don't see KTM not telling the truth about the bike at the risk...
Homologation states that you have to run the cc's of the production bike...I don't see KTM not telling the truth about the bike at the risk of being disqualified. As stated above, you can also hear a higher pitched rev.
GREAT answer. Thanks. Smile
ML512
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5/27/2010 7:39pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2010 7:40pm
On a side note, I found a website with specs for the 2011's and after running the Kg weights thru an online converter here is what...
On a side note, I found a website with specs for the 2011's and after running the Kg weights thru an online converter here is what I got (without gas):

1. 250sx => 210.3 lbs
2. 250sx-f => 220.2 lbs
3. 350sx-f => 229.1 lbs
4. 450sx-f => 235.7 lbs
rc4187 wrote:
Weege said Alessi's bike came through tech inspection at 230 lbs which is 10 lbs over the minimum weight limit. I'd say the bike isn't any...
Weege said Alessi's bike came through tech inspection at 230 lbs which is 10 lbs over the minimum weight limit. I'd say the bike isn't any lighter than anyone else's in the class.
bullpen58 wrote:
I was gonna ask about THAT too! MA said on the podium that his bike is "lighter" and I was wondering, aren't all the top bikes...
I was gonna ask about THAT too! MA said on the podium that his bike is "lighter" and I was wondering, aren't all the top bikes at or very close to the weight limit?
Its a bit lighter but the biggest difference to its weight is the inertia, I talked to Sleeter about this one day and he mentioned that the inertia from the bike was closer feeling to a 250 than 450. The bike would want to fight u allot less and be easier to manipulate.
BobbyM
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5/27/2010 7:42pm
bullpen58 wrote:
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee...
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee to have it torn down? Just for old time's sake?

I mean seriously though, what would stop KTM from making their "350" into a 450? The rules allow it. It could be a big marketing scheme cover-up. If so, this is bigger news that watergate!

Either way, whether it's a 350 or a 450, it got the job done! Nice work Katoom.
it is but i think it's bored out to a 445
BobbyM
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5/27/2010 7:43pm
You can easily hear the difference, even on TV.
no you can't....not really imho. it sounds very throaty and powerful
Yaya
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5/27/2010 7:45pm
349cc, good enough for me.
Void Main
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5/27/2010 8:07pm
I heard it was bored out to 650.
Crush
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5/27/2010 8:08pm
Once a bike is homologated, they have to run that spec.

It is a 350
loftyair
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5/27/2010 8:09pm
KTM has been the 'motor' company for a while now. If a kx250f can holeshot the best in the world, (villo), then why wouldn't 100cc more on a arguably better motor company (ktm) be able to do it? A better question might be, " is it really only a 250f?"
Trip
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5/27/2010 8:15pm
Second time this topic came up... Now we just need another J-Law thread....
Yaya
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5/27/2010 8:19pm
Trip wrote:
Second time this topic came up... Now we just need another J-Law thread....
It'll be around eventually haha
Tiki
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5/27/2010 9:48pm
Gardner37 wrote:
Rule number one:

Think before you type.
Genius! Now go away, you make way too much logical sense here.
Lightning78
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5/27/2010 9:56pm
bullpen58 wrote:
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee...
How do we know? Has anyone "protested" his bike? Can one of his rivals from the mini days please protest his bike and pay the fee to have it torn down? Just for old time's sake?

I mean seriously though, what would stop KTM from making their "350" into a 450? The rules allow it. It could be a big marketing scheme cover-up. If so, this is bigger news that watergate!

Either way, whether it's a 350 or a 450, it got the job done! Nice work Katoom.
Stupid thread/post..............KTM's 350 is within spec....according to the production rule that as a fan you should know any bike raced has to use the production engine cases, frame swingarm and plastics .....why can none of you accept that MA800 kicked everyone's ass on a 350?....You don't think for a minute that the "Big 4" teams didn't demand the bike be inspected for legality? Im sure the bike was torn down and inspected as soon as the race was over mostly motivated but the big 4 because they got their asses handed to them on a bike 100cc less than what they have to offer?

Did you even look at the laptimes between the 250f's and the 450f's after Hangtown was concluded? If you did before making such a conspiracy theory based post you'd see that the 250f's and the 450f's were running about the SAME laptimes from top to bottom.....why is this so hard to accept he beat everyone on a 350??????
Lightning78
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5/27/2010 9:58pm
also aren't the top 3 bikes torn down and inspected as a rule for legality per race?
Lightning78
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5/27/2010 10:00pm
bullpen58 wrote:
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie" How do you know...
"they wouldn't go through the time and effort to produce a bike and market it and have it all be a lie"

How do you know? Maybe there's something in it for them to lie?

Like, hmmmmm, let's say what if a company (KTM) made this big deal out of how they're gonna make a 350 to race the 450s but then since development of the bike was done at the last minute, they realized that the 350 wasn't competitive? Would they want to get their asses handed to them all season and then look like morons and not sell any 350s? Or would they want to bolt a 450cc (or whatever size) cylinder on there and keep telling everyone it's a 350 so that dipshits like us would rush out to buy one?

Who cares though eh? Let's just bury our heads in the sand and not ask any questions. Wouldn't want to upset the apple cart. Silly
They have been working on the 350 design simce 2003 so it wasn't last minute ...... HT racing in orange county was contacted by KTM to start building and developing a 350cc engine back in 03 . MXA did a rather detailed article on it ....maybe you shoud read it.

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