Is it do or die for Suzuki?

Jmicmoto13
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Jmicmoto13
With the "New" RM-Z 450 supposed to be coming with model year 2018, if it's not a hit, does Suzuki lose everything moto related? I am a die hard Suzuki fan (probably not many of us left) and have been waiting for them to get on the ball for way too long. If the new RM-Z pulls an '09 CRF450R or a 2010 YZ450F, does it tank Suzuki's moto stock? I think that all that's been keeping them relevant was the Stars (Roczen, Carmichael, And now Barcia) talking it up and proving its worth because the mag reviews do it no favors. Just wanting to hear what you guys think.
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mx836
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mx836 1/28/2017 7:43am
1/28/2017 7:43am
It's not do or die IMO. They've always been the smallest in moto of the Big 4 and they've clearly taken a step back after the tough economic times a decade or so ago. At any point, they can get back in the game as much as they'd like to. Same as KTM have done, then Yamaha, and now HRC, all after some struggles. People hate on them because people these days aren't very smart and care about shit that doesn't matter. The bikes are good. They've had many changes. They still look good. Bunch of guys racing SX on the 450 this year. Suzuki is fine.
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twotwosix 1/28/2017 7:43am
1/28/2017 7:43am Edited Date/Time 1/28/2017 7:45am
If they can thrive with the current heavy, outdated bike, they will be fine with a new, lighter 2018 regardless of how the magazines rank it.

Honda and Yamaha were replacing really good bikes in 09 and 10 respectively. It won't be hard to beat the stock 2017 RMZ450, as the only great thing it does is turn well. Forks suck, it's heavy and the engine isn't fast.
Jmicmoto13
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Jmicmoto13 1/28/2017 7:47am
1/28/2017 7:47am
Good thoughts guys. Thanks. I just can't get over the Rockstar Suzuki years as they were the team to beat and haven't been lightings it on fire since then. I'm hopeful the 2018 will be great.
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Dtat720 1/28/2017 7:49am
1/28/2017 7:49am
They sell well already. It won the outdoors title last year. It is nowhere near do or die. Suzuki is doing fine in moto. They have always been relatively lowkey anyway.

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twotwosix
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twotwosix 1/28/2017 7:49am
1/28/2017 7:49am
Jmicmoto13 wrote:
Good thoughts guys. Thanks. I just can't get over the Rockstar Suzuki years as they were the team to beat and haven't been lightings it on...
Good thoughts guys. Thanks. I just can't get over the Rockstar Suzuki years as they were the team to beat and haven't been lightings it on fire since then. I'm hopeful the 2018 will be great.
They just won an Outdoor title and some Supercross races, which is more than Yamaha, Honda and Kawasaki can claim from last year.
Jmicmoto13
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Jmicmoto13 1/28/2017 7:54am
1/28/2017 7:54am
twotwosix wrote:
They just won an Outdoor title and some Supercross races, which is more than Yamaha, Honda and Kawasaki can claim from last year.
I understand but let's be honest, if Roczen was on an RM250 he would have won it. He was on another level. Like I said I'm a huge fan and brand loyal to Suzuki but they just don't feel on the same level as other manufacturers.
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twotwosix 1/28/2017 7:57am
1/28/2017 7:57am
Jmicmoto13 wrote:
I understand but let's be honest, if Roczen was on an RM250 he would have won it. He was on another level. Like I said I'm...
I understand but let's be honest, if Roczen was on an RM250 he would have won it. He was on another level. Like I said I'm a huge fan and brand loyal to Suzuki but they just don't feel on the same level as other manufacturers.
Wheeler is doing what he can to point them in the right direction. The Auto bankruptcy really set them back heavy.
mx836
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mx836 1/28/2017 7:58am
1/28/2017 7:58am
Jmicmoto13 wrote:
I understand but let's be honest, if Roczen was on an RM250 he would have won it. He was on another level. Like I said I'm...
I understand but let's be honest, if Roczen was on an RM250 he would have won it. He was on another level. Like I said I'm a huge fan and brand loyal to Suzuki but they just don't feel on the same level as other manufacturers.
You say he would have won on a RM250, so certainly he would have won on any other brands 450 also. Do not use that to determine what bike is good. Your bike will be nothing like the one on TV.
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mx836 1/28/2017 8:00am
1/28/2017 8:00am
McGrath, Larocco, Albertyn, Carmichael, Pastrana, Reed, Dungey, Stewart, Roczen, etc. Just some of the guys to race Suzuki over the last 20 years. I think they are doing great.
Jmicmoto13
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Jmicmoto13 1/28/2017 8:07am
1/28/2017 8:07am
twotwosix wrote:
Wheeler is doing what he can to point them in the right direction. The Auto bankruptcy really set them back heavy.
Yeah I know the automotive division was the culprit to their slow down. Did they sell that division off or just pull out of NA?
Jmicmoto13
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Jmicmoto13 1/28/2017 8:08am
1/28/2017 8:08am
mx836 wrote:
You say he would have won on a RM250, so certainly he would have won on any other brands 450 also. Do not use that to...
You say he would have won on a RM250, so certainly he would have won on any other brands 450 also. Do not use that to determine what bike is good. Your bike will be nothing like the one on TV.
Valid statement
Tenacious P
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Tenacious P 1/28/2017 8:46am
1/28/2017 8:46am Edited Date/Time 1/28/2017 8:46am
Suzuki 450 is the best value in MX! Let's hope they go back to spring fork, keep the geometry, lighten it a bit, and keep the price about the same. Update plastics and screen-print graphics. Boom!
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doghouse 1/28/2017 8:57am
1/28/2017 8:57am
Jmicmoto13 wrote:
Good thoughts guys. Thanks. I just can't get over the Rockstar Suzuki years as they were the team to beat and haven't been lightings it on...
Good thoughts guys. Thanks. I just can't get over the Rockstar Suzuki years as they were the team to beat and haven't been lightings it on fire since then. I'm hopeful the 2018 will be great.
The one thing to keep in mind is the Rockstar years were the exception, not the rule. Suzuki had some good 70's bikes, then wandered the wilderness for a looooooooong time. They had some top riders here and there, but for almost 20 years it was the Honda/Kawasaki show, with Yamaha lurking. As mentioned, they are the smallest of the big four, so it's pretty understandable they won't bring massive heat on a yearly basis.
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USA 1/28/2017 9:06am
1/28/2017 9:06am
mx836 wrote:
McGrath, Larocco, Albertyn, Carmichael, Pastrana, Reed, Dungey, Stewart, Roczen, etc. Just some of the guys to race Suzuki over the last 20 years. I think they...
McGrath, Larocco, Albertyn, Carmichael, Pastrana, Reed, Dungey, Stewart, Roczen, etc. Just some of the guys to race Suzuki over the last 20 years. I think they are doing great.
I thought McGrath helped seal the deal for RM meaning: "Race? Maybe."
nascarnate326 1/28/2017 9:15am
1/28/2017 9:15am
All they really need to do is find a few hp, new plastics, and drop weight everywhere. I don't think it will be do or die but they could use a hit.
mx836
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mx836 1/28/2017 9:18am
1/28/2017 9:18am
mx836 wrote:
McGrath, Larocco, Albertyn, Carmichael, Pastrana, Reed, Dungey, Stewart, Roczen, etc. Just some of the guys to race Suzuki over the last 20 years. I think they...
McGrath, Larocco, Albertyn, Carmichael, Pastrana, Reed, Dungey, Stewart, Roczen, etc. Just some of the guys to race Suzuki over the last 20 years. I think they are doing great.
USA wrote:
I thought McGrath helped seal the deal for RM meaning: "Race? Maybe."
I didn't say it was a good year on the Suzuki. I think he got his bikes a week or two before the first round and had some really bad luck. If not for some minor mistakes and a flat tire if I recall correctly, he'd have won 8 straight!!
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JW381 1/28/2017 9:20am
1/28/2017 9:20am
mx836 wrote:
It's not do or die IMO. They've always been the smallest in moto of the Big 4 and they've clearly taken a step back after the...
It's not do or die IMO. They've always been the smallest in moto of the Big 4 and they've clearly taken a step back after the tough economic times a decade or so ago. At any point, they can get back in the game as much as they'd like to. Same as KTM have done, then Yamaha, and now HRC, all after some struggles. People hate on them because people these days aren't very smart and care about shit that doesn't matter. The bikes are good. They've had many changes. They still look good. Bunch of guys racing SX on the 450 this year. Suzuki is fine.
That's how I feel. It is odd that they consistently get last in every shootout tho.
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mx836 1/28/2017 9:34am
1/28/2017 9:34am
JW381 wrote:
That's how I feel. It is odd that they consistently get last in every shootout tho.
I can understand it. Still looks the same as '08, slowest stock engine, lots of complaints about the fork, heavy (on the scale). Everybody still says it corners great, which is harder to fix than those other things. Plus you can buy it cheaper than all the rest and fix some of it's stock downfalls. Lap times tell a better tale than the shootout results IMO.

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BobPA 1/28/2017 9:49am
1/28/2017 9:49am
Dtat720 wrote:
They sell well already. It won the outdoors title last year. It is nowhere near do or die. Suzuki is doing fine in moto. They have...
They sell well already. It won the outdoors title last year. It is nowhere near do or die. Suzuki is doing fine in moto. They have always been relatively lowkey anyway.
The LEFTOVERS sell well because dealers have to blow them out. 2017's will sit on the floor for 2 more years and be sold at cost....just like the left over 14's and 15's now

I agree that they do not need a full makeover. Put the bike on a bit of a diet, fire the dude who comes up with the OEM color schemes, and find a better fork and call it a day.
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downard254 1/28/2017 9:52am
1/28/2017 9:52am
I'd like to see more lap time comparisons in the shootouts. You can say one bike is leaps and bounds better than another, but the lap times won't lie. Either the bike can go fast or it can't.
Still2StrokenIt 1/28/2017 10:14am
1/28/2017 10:14am
Jmicmoto13 wrote:
With the "New" RM-Z 450 supposed to be coming with model year 2018, if it's not a hit, does Suzuki lose everything moto related? I am...
With the "New" RM-Z 450 supposed to be coming with model year 2018, if it's not a hit, does Suzuki lose everything moto related? I am a die hard Suzuki fan (probably not many of us left) and have been waiting for them to get on the ball for way too long. If the new RM-Z pulls an '09 CRF450R or a 2010 YZ450F, does it tank Suzuki's moto stock? I think that all that's been keeping them relevant was the Stars (Roczen, Carmichael, And now Barcia) talking it up and proving its worth because the mag reviews do it no favors. Just wanting to hear what you guys think.
There is no new bike. You guys say this every year. Suzuki is closer to BK then putting out a new bike.
#NoNew18zuke
#delusionalVitards

Let me guess J.Stewart is secretly racing using his middle name "Ronnie", right?
Jmicmoto13
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Jmicmoto13 1/28/2017 10:22am
1/28/2017 10:22am
Still2StrokenIt wrote:
There is no new bike. You guys say this every year. Suzuki is closer to BK then putting out a new bike. #NoNew18zuke #delusionalVitards Let me...
There is no new bike. You guys say this every year. Suzuki is closer to BK then putting out a new bike.
#NoNew18zuke
#delusionalVitards

Let me guess J.Stewart is secretly racing using his middle name "Ronnie", right?
Gee, thanks for you insight. The smart response and condescending tone are unnecessary.
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mxb2 1/28/2017 10:25am
1/28/2017 10:25am
Jmicmoto13 wrote:
With the "New" RM-Z 450 supposed to be coming with model year 2018, if it's not a hit, does Suzuki lose everything moto related? I am...
With the "New" RM-Z 450 supposed to be coming with model year 2018, if it's not a hit, does Suzuki lose everything moto related? I am a die hard Suzuki fan (probably not many of us left) and have been waiting for them to get on the ball for way too long. If the new RM-Z pulls an '09 CRF450R or a 2010 YZ450F, does it tank Suzuki's moto stock? I think that all that's been keeping them relevant was the Stars (Roczen, Carmichael, And now Barcia) talking it up and proving its worth because the mag reviews do it no favors. Just wanting to hear what you guys think.
Still2StrokenIt wrote:
There is no new bike. You guys say this every year. Suzuki is closer to BK then putting out a new bike. #NoNew18zuke #delusionalVitards Let me...
There is no new bike. You guys say this every year. Suzuki is closer to BK then putting out a new bike.
#NoNew18zuke
#delusionalVitards

Let me guess J.Stewart is secretly racing using his middle name "Ronnie", right?
Wager?
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Spat24 1/28/2017 10:27am
1/28/2017 10:27am
Hey Jmic - I am a loyal Suzuki fan as well. Ever since my dad owned Suzukis and going to watch DeCoster, Geboers and Robert at Saddleback and Carlsbad I have been loyal to Suzuki I will always ride a Suzuki - I have had a many over the years and loved each one.

I always cheer on the guys racing Suzuki. This year in SX/MX is great with more yellow bikes on the track. And next year will be even better as I think RCH or JGR will land a title contender - maybe someone who rode Suzuki as a kid???
That is a pure guess and more of wishful thinking though.

With the new bike coming out in 18 - yes it should be better and will sell well. And just my opinion that all bikes now - even the Suzuki are more bike than 80% of riders need.

So continue to cheer on the yellow brigade - ride Suzuki and be part of a great community - Suzuki!
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Jmicmoto13 1/28/2017 1:29pm
1/28/2017 1:29pm
Spat24 wrote:
Hey Jmic - I am a loyal Suzuki fan as well. Ever since my dad owned Suzukis and going to watch DeCoster, Geboers and Robert at...
Hey Jmic - I am a loyal Suzuki fan as well. Ever since my dad owned Suzukis and going to watch DeCoster, Geboers and Robert at Saddleback and Carlsbad I have been loyal to Suzuki I will always ride a Suzuki - I have had a many over the years and loved each one.

I always cheer on the guys racing Suzuki. This year in SX/MX is great with more yellow bikes on the track. And next year will be even better as I think RCH or JGR will land a title contender - maybe someone who rode Suzuki as a kid???
That is a pure guess and more of wishful thinking though.

With the new bike coming out in 18 - yes it should be better and will sell well. And just my opinion that all bikes now - even the Suzuki are more bike than 80% of riders need.

So continue to cheer on the yellow brigade - ride Suzuki and be part of a great community - Suzuki!
Well put. I am also hopeful that a low digit, son of a legend, solo training rider comes to the yellow side very soon as well. Either way I hope it keeps "raining yellow."
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mattmatt300 1/28/2017 2:00pm
1/28/2017 2:00pm
mx836 wrote:
McGrath, Larocco, Albertyn, Carmichael, Pastrana, Reed, Dungey, Stewart, Roczen, etc. Just some of the guys to race Suzuki over the last 20 years. I think they...
McGrath, Larocco, Albertyn, Carmichael, Pastrana, Reed, Dungey, Stewart, Roczen, etc. Just some of the guys to race Suzuki over the last 20 years. I think they are doing great.
USA wrote:
I thought McGrath helped seal the deal for RM meaning: "Race? Maybe."
mx836 wrote:
I didn't say it was a good year on the Suzuki. I think he got his bikes a week or two before the first round and...
I didn't say it was a good year on the Suzuki. I think he got his bikes a week or two before the first round and had some really bad luck. If not for some minor mistakes and a flat tire if I recall correctly, he'd have won 8 straight!!
MC hated the KTM also but they seem to be doing alright.
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twotwosix 1/28/2017 2:02pm
1/28/2017 2:02pm
Still2StrokenIt wrote:
There is no new bike. You guys say this every year. Suzuki is closer to BK then putting out a new bike. #NoNew18zuke #delusionalVitards Let me...
There is no new bike. You guys say this every year. Suzuki is closer to BK then putting out a new bike.
#NoNew18zuke
#delusionalVitards

Let me guess J.Stewart is secretly racing using his middle name "Ronnie", right?
Haha, there are 2018 mules in California being tested right now buddy.
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Flip109 1/28/2017 2:04pm
1/28/2017 2:04pm
If they had just changed the damn plastics every few years nobody would be bitching. It's a great bike
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 1/28/2017 2:05pm
1/28/2017 2:05pm
Who's had the most bikes in every 450 main this year?

Who's got the bike that privateers run to when they have to do it on there own?
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Kawboy593 1/28/2017 2:21pm
1/28/2017 2:21pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2017 2:25pm
I just bought a Brand New 2016 KX450F. My last two 450s have been RMZ's. I went with the KX because it was 7+ lbs lighter than the RMZ. I WISH I would of got the RMZ. Better Contingency and the Bike is good regardless of what the Magazines say. (That's all about money) $800.00 cheaper for the RMZ. (Big leftover sale) What was I thinking???

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