Is banning electronic aids better for the sport.

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3/11/2020 5:38 PM

Watching Daytona and talking amongst a few moto buddy's. I put it out there, is it time to start limiting this stuff some. Litpros, data aquistion, traction control, start maps ECT ECT. Having rode a efi and a carbed bike with a true factory ecu vs a vortex and remapped OEM it's sick what that factory ecu can do. Just curious what the vital brain trust thinks.

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3/11/2020 5:50 PM

By “true factory ECU” do you mean a stock ECU with stock map or are you paging JS7? I love my modern EFI four stroke but I must say all these buttons on the handlebars are getting a bit ridiculous.

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2017 CRF450r

3/11/2020 6:08 PM

idk when they first came out but bikes with traction control are outrageous. Ive got an 18 yz250f and i think its great except for the fact that tuners are still 250 bucks and theyre basically a $50 harbor freight scan tool

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3/11/2020 6:15 PM

Less electronic aid and no holeshot devices!

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2017 RMZ450
2005 YZ250-sold :,(
1998 YZ250
2005 KX250F

80% of the time it works every time
IG @hamdaddyof2 & @2HRacing
Thanks to : Factory Effex, N2Dirt, Acerbis, DT1, Fasthouse, Matix, FMF, ASV, 100% & Mika Metals

3/11/2020 6:17 PM

I'd like to ADD an electronic aid!

I'd like riders to be able to have communication in their helmets. Like "big time crash around this corner, heads up, stay to the right side" kinds of things.

They can talk to the NASCAR racers, why not dirt bikes?

I'm not saying every rider would want this.

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3/11/2020 6:23 PM

Less bike aids, more rider aids. I believe they should have communication, even if it’s just 1 way. It could help with incidents. F traction control and all the rest of that stuff

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3/11/2020 7:43 PM

rob162 wrote:

Watching Daytona and talking amongst a few moto buddy's. I put it out there, is it time to start limiting this stuff some. Litpros, data aquistion, traction control, start maps ECT ECT. Having rode a efi and a carbed bike with a true factory ecu vs a vortex and remapped OEM it's sick what that factory ecu can do. Just curious what the vital brain trust thinks.

I'll play.

The engine and traction stuff doesn't bother me so much right now, but I'm aware of what can be done down the line and I'm worried that it will reduce the skill and fitness required to race/ride a bike. I'd like to preserve the toughness and technicality of the sport if we can.

One of my buddies quit our sport two years ago after breaking his arm. He has two little girls and a wife.
He bought a side by side with electronic controlled suspension, it's pretty impressive what it can do.

In the next 20 years, I'll bet we have that widespread in Motocross. It's the next frontier for the sport.

As soon as the suspension starts setting you up for the corner and eliminating your mistakes in concert with the electronic engine controls the sport loses part of it's technical and physical aspect that I love.

Just my opinion, but I love this sport for the mental, physical and technical challenges it offers us.

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3/11/2020 7:45 PM

They should only ban it if the AMA could enforce it properly.
The AMA would have no chance

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3/11/2020 8:25 PM

I think only engine air and timing sensors should be allowed. No gyro, wheel speed, suspension or GPS sensors. Allowing cheap and easy power delivery modifications is a good thing, but traction control and auto adjusting suspension is a rabbit hole I don't think we need explored.

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3/11/2020 8:59 PM

100 percent stock bikes in the 250 class and claiming rule of 20k in the 450 class. Stock means spring changes and grips only.

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3/11/2020 9:59 PM

Stuff like traction control you simply aren't going to outlaw. It's super easy to retard timing and/or fuel when the computer detects rpm's rising quicker than they should. Auto adjusting suspension could be regulated to some degree, but at some point a very small microprocessor, battery and hardware will find it's way into forks and the shock.

All the possible aids will result in riders covering the same ground at a higher speed. The best riders will still win, and it will still be crazy rough- it'll just take higher speeds to achieve that level of "roughness".

If communication is allowed, it should be analog without scramblers- this would allow the fans to listen in and be part of the action. Vital could lose half of it's collective mind every weekend some rider says anything even mildly spicy. The other half of Vital could bitch that the riders are too vanilla and not passionate enough. laughing

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3/12/2020 12:06 AM

hubbardmx50 wrote:

By “true factory ECU” do you mean a stock ECU with stock map or are you paging JS7? I love my modern EFI four stroke but I must say all these buttons on the handlebars are getting a bit ridiculous.

Paging js7 factory ecu. It is ridiculous to say the least what it's like compared to even a tuned vortex although it's been sounding like Mr. Ellis over at TD is getting closer.

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3/12/2020 12:09 AM

dimesandrhymes wrote:

idk when they first came out but bikes with traction control are outrageous. Ive got an 18 yz250f and i think its great except for the fact that tuners are still 250 bucks and theyre basically a $50 harbor freight scan tool

I've got the same bike. Even those tuners aren't all that good. Sending it to TD XPR TZR or any good tuner can make the stock ecu way better. I've got a GET ignition that im gonna throw on and play around with and see how much better I can get it than my modded stock

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3/12/2020 12:11 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Less electronic aid and no holeshot devices!

You can't take away the holeshot devices that's the only way i can touch the ground on starts and that's with 10mm lower sub frame, a short seat and my suspension cut down a inch!

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3/12/2020 12:49 AM

Wait, I think I have been living under a rock, There's traction control in MX?

That explains a lot of lack of style these days...

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3/12/2020 1:24 AM

I think communication within the helmet could cause crashes.
There is simply too much concentration required.
Imagine how a rider could be startled by a message while about to launch over a triple,
or in a whoop section.
I vote no.

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3/12/2020 2:24 AM

Way to much electronic stuff, love beating a new 450 with efi, TC etc... on a little 125 still mixing gas

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3/12/2020 4:13 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Less electronic aid and no holeshot devices!

Please. It really would be better for the sport. And can we alternate metal grate starts? I would like to see metal grate race 1 day and all dirt the next weekend.

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3/12/2020 4:30 AM

Can anyone explain what a “factory ECU” is? Do they put super top secret unobtanium 1s and 0s in there?

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3/12/2020 4:37 AM

Get rid of Lit Pro and all this crazy stuff. Please. This sport was supposed to be man, motorcycle and terrain.. bad ass. It’s changing too much. I know someone will bust my chops that loves the technology, I just think it drives costs up and makes it more elitist. Figuring out the fast way around the track should be up to the rider, not a computer.
Amateurs need to focus on things like steel sprockets and o-ring chains that last all season instead of programmers, let’s get kids out racing and make it fun, affordable again. This is all trickle down. That’s my thought but I know it will never change, we are on a path that won’t change sadly. In 10-20 years there will be no more amateur motocross

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3/12/2020 4:46 AM

The problem as soon as you start banning stuff the teams will think of ways to get around it. Like no start devices - Easy. But then someone comes up with one that works internally (inside the fork) or something. Then the AMA have to spend more money checking said forks and re-regulating. It just goes back and forth.

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3/12/2020 5:40 AM

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Less electronic aid and no holeshot devices!

This Times ×1000 I have been thinking this for years.

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3/12/2020 5:41 AM

245MX wrote:

The problem as soon as you start banning stuff the teams will think of ways to get around it. Like no start devices - Easy. But then someone comes up with one that works internally (inside the fork) or something. Then the AMA have to spend more money checking said forks and re-regulating. It just goes back and forth.

Then catch the next thing and ban that too

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3/12/2020 6:12 AM

Anything that drives up the cost of entry to the sport is bad for the sport. Bring back the 125 class. The 250 class needs to go.

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3/12/2020 6:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/12/2020 6:32 AM

Carburetor's and kickstart! Also I second the no holeshot devices. Motorcycles should be as simple as possible imo.

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3/12/2020 10:06 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/12/2020 10:07 AM

MotoGP has gone through this. In 2002 4-strokes were introduced which was the death knell for 2-stroke racing in the premier class. With that, the electronic age started to take off. In recent years they have worked to reel that in, with a spec ECU being introduced a few years back, with a standard software. This limits the parameters the teams can modify.

Basically the OEMs want rider aids and electronic development. It helps with their production bike technology, so they fight tooth and nail anything that limits that development.

I personally like less rider aids. I'd eliminate hole shot devices, traction control, etc.

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3/12/2020 10:17 AM

Electronic Suspension Control is banned in MotoGP and WSBK. Even if it's available as a std / optional fitment for the production bike ( WSBK)

I think it's specifically banned in the World Motocross Championships as well, but, I could be wrong on that.

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3/12/2020 10:37 AM
Edited Date/Time: 3/12/2020 10:41 AM

not worried about it..the sport is in a state of terminal decline and there wont be anyone to buy these EFI bikes with electromagnetic suspenion in 10 years anyways.

moto is a blue collar sport and blue collar people are hurting financially and will be for the foreseeable future.

making the 250 class a stock/spec class would be a good start.

it costs a tremendous amount of money to keep a 50 hp 250F running all season. JGR has like 30 motors for their team...

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3/12/2020 11:44 AM

Vital MX: We need to grow the sport, how do we get people into riding?

Also Vital MX: We need to remove all things that help the rider!

Seriously though, on one hand I can see where you guys are coming from. But I feel like taking away all aids is not the best thing to do. TC? Sure. Yeah, having the best possible traction 100% of the time is good for faster lap times but not everyone who rides cares about having the fastest lap. Not necessary, and I for one like feeling the rear end break loose on the gas from time to time. Holeshot devices? Debatable.



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3/12/2020 11:59 AM

Vintage MX,problem solved.

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