Is Tickle's Case going to change things?

ando
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5/2/2018 3:35pm
burn1986 wrote:
Sad. The current MX/ SX mgmt has gotten lazy, complacent, and sluggish. Having the WADA issue discipline and sanctions to US-only riders, is equivalent to letting...
Sad. The current MX/ SX mgmt has gotten lazy, complacent, and sluggish.

Having the WADA issue discipline and sanctions to US-only riders, is equivalent to letting Russia issue the death penalty for US-only political violators. Of course everyone would say “Heck, they violated Russian law so that’s what they get.” That may seem a little extreme, but violations with the WADA are a virtual death sentence for any rider.

You are conveniently ignoring two things:

1. This isn’t a US only series, it’s an FIM world championship.

2. The US Nationals is a US only series, but it uses USADA who subscribe to the same Anti-Doping Code. Maybe their process is different but the penalties aren’t.

You consistently blame WADA but consistently fail to read what others have said. Riders, teams and OEM’s asked for testing. WADA/USADA was chosen by the respective organising bodies as their regulatory body, with full knowledge of the testing regime and the penalty code.

Despite the opinions of a small number of people on this forum, most people have little to no tolerance for drugs in sport. That’s why their is outrage when cheats are caught, and the penalties are severe.
Walter
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5/2/2018 3:56pm
Dave makes good points about the craziness that would follow from allowing someone who tested positive to continue to race vis a vis other racers, points, $$$ and bonuses.

As for contaminated samples and mishandling, that has been raised by really good lawyers in a number of cases with no positive results...moreover, most of the athletes that raised it later admitted they doped.
burn1986
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5/2/2018 4:02pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2018 4:15pm
ando wrote:
You are conveniently ignoring two things: 1. This isn’t a US only series, it’s an FIM world championship. 2. The US Nationals is a US only...
You are conveniently ignoring two things:

1. This isn’t a US only series, it’s an FIM world championship.

2. The US Nationals is a US only series, but it uses USADA who subscribe to the same Anti-Doping Code. Maybe their process is different but the penalties aren’t.

You consistently blame WADA but consistently fail to read what others have said. Riders, teams and OEM’s asked for testing. WADA/USADA was chosen by the respective organising bodies as their regulatory body, with full knowledge of the testing regime and the penalty code.

Despite the opinions of a small number of people on this forum, most people have little to no tolerance for drugs in sport. That’s why their is outrage when cheats are caught, and the penalties are severe.
Look, I'm not ignoring anything. I'm disagreeing with having an Olympic committee levying sanctions against US motorcycle riders who only compete in the US. And I'm not blaming the WADA (why are you so in love with the WADA anyway and defensive toward them). I'm blaming the lazy MX hierarchy (promoters, AMA, etc) for not going to the table to at least talk about options. And I can voice my disagreement, regardless if you or anyone else like it or not. Its not the best system, regardless of how much you're worried about me harming you're precious WADA.

So all the US riders and all the team managers were begging and asking for this? Yeah, okay. I find that hard to believe.

1. How is a series that only occurs in one country a "world" series? How many rounds of the AMA SX and AMA MX Nationals occur outside of the US (other than the Toronto round)?

What ought to happen is the WADA can do the testing and the AMA can levy penalties (not the USADA - which is the WADA). Or an agreed up board of MX mgmt. Australia, Canada, and Europe can do the same thing.

For sports like tennis and the Olympics, which compete all over the world, then the WADA can assess penalties.

After all is said and done, though, it is the promoters' show and they can hire whoever they want to run it. But I can voice my disagreement because the deal stinks, they know it, but are too lazy, complacent, and punked out by the OEMs FIM etc to do anything about it.
ando
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5/2/2018 4:12pm
burn1986 wrote:
Look, I'm not ignoring anything. I'm disagreeing with having an Olympic committee levying sanctions against US motorcycle riders who only compete in the US. And I'm...
Look, I'm not ignoring anything. I'm disagreeing with having an Olympic committee levying sanctions against US motorcycle riders who only compete in the US. And I'm not blaming the WADA (why are you so in love with the WADA anyway and defensive toward them). I'm blaming the lazy MX hierarchy (promoters, AMA, etc) for not going to the table to at least talk about options. And I can voice my disagreement, regardless if you or anyone else like it or not. Its not the best system, regardless of how much you're worried about me harming you're precious WADA.

So all the US riders and all the team managers were begging and asking for this? Yeah, okay. I find that hard to believe.

1. How is a series that only occurs in one country a "world" series? How many rounds of the AMA SX and AMA MX Nationals occur outside of the US (other than the Toronto round)?

What ought to happen is the WADA can do the testing and the AMA can levy penalties (not the USADA - which is the WADA). Or an agreed up board of MX mgmt. Australia, Canada, and Europe can do the same thing.

For sports like tennis and the Olympics, which compete all over the world, then the WADA can assess penalties.

After all is said and done, though, it is the promoters' show and they can hire whoever they want to run it. But I can voice my disagreement because the deal stinks, they know it, but are too lazy, complacent, and punked out by the OEMs FIM etc to do anything about it.
The MX Nationals are not a world series, but MX Sports chose to sign up with USADA anyway.

As far as who was asking for testing, I don’t have first hand knowledge but I’m pretty sure GuyB has, in the past, written what I wrote above.

The Shop

burn1986
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5/2/2018 4:17pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2018 7:43pm
I'm sure there's some who thought it would be a good idea initially, but if you heard it from a promoter that "Everyone was asking for it", then you need to consider your source.

Mit12
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5/2/2018 5:04pm
I am not buying that Tickle has no idea how or what he ate or drank that caused him to fail this drug test. I would be curious tosee how much he had in his system and how far over the threshold he was. I have been involved in drug testing for over 25 years and I have heard every excuse You could imagine. It sucks that the suspension is so harsh and that no one from WADA or the FIM is helping Tickle prove his innocence. We must realize that we are not talking about 5 riders a year coming up dirty we are talking about 3 riders from this series in the last 5 years? And this is the only rider that was caught for taking a banned substance that is not prescribed.

In saying all that I hope that the FIM/AMA can come up with a testing organization that they can work with to come up with penalties that make since. Failing a drug test for the first time should not end your career.
jeffro503
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5/2/2018 7:03pm
Mit12 wrote:
I am not buying that Tickle has no idea how or what he ate or drank that caused him to fail this drug test. I would...
I am not buying that Tickle has no idea how or what he ate or drank that caused him to fail this drug test. I would be curious tosee how much he had in his system and how far over the threshold he was. I have been involved in drug testing for over 25 years and I have heard every excuse You could imagine. It sucks that the suspension is so harsh and that no one from WADA or the FIM is helping Tickle prove his innocence. We must realize that we are not talking about 5 riders a year coming up dirty we are talking about 3 riders from this series in the last 5 years? And this is the only rider that was caught for taking a banned substance that is not prescribed.

In saying all that I hope that the FIM/AMA can come up with a testing organization that they can work with to come up with penalties that make since. Failing a drug test for the first time should not end your career.
Correct me if I'm wrong......but weren't you one of the guys in here defending James to the bitter end , on a drug that is the most popular cheater drug on planet earth? If so.....why would James be innocent and Broc guilty?
burn1986
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5/2/2018 7:40pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2018 7:47pm
Does guilt or innocence matter at this point? Fwiw, they’re both guilty. But, the penalty is the issue. Broc will probably get about 1.5 - 2 yrs. it’s just a matter of what kind of mood the wada is in on that day.
IWreckALot
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5/2/2018 7:45pm
GuyB wrote:
Chatting with someone who'd know this morning, it sounds like as long as we have an FIM tie-in (which I believe the AMA has to have...
Chatting with someone who'd know this morning, it sounds like as long as we have an FIM tie-in (which I believe the AMA has to have for us to participate in things like the MXoN), we're sort of stuck with WADA's setup.
What else do we get for being in bed with the FIM? If the pinnacle reason to be involved with the FIM is the exhibition race (mxdn) then I couldn’t give less of a shit if the US competed in that race. I can enjoy the mxdn equally if the IS is competing or not.
lostboy819
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My personal opinion is that both Stewart and Tickle knew what they were taking and they were using the banned substance as a PED. I have no proof and the only facts I have is that they both failed the same drug test that other riders that get tested have passed. I dont believe there are any mix ups with the samples and the B,C and D samples will all be the same. I would like nothing better than a WADA saying it was a mistake but I really doubt that will happen.
APLMAN99
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5/2/2018 10:13pm
Drew Blood wrote:
The penalties are a little stiff, but why do many in MMA want lifetime bans? Could it be because many people know that testing doesn't catch...
The penalties are a little stiff, but why do many in MMA want lifetime bans?
Could it be because many people know that testing doesn't catch cheats unless they mess up or screw up?

They got one guy who tested clean and a few hours later tested off the charts. Like 5 times over normal limits. They didn't expect that..........but the testers used the "eye test" and got crafty.

Thats why the one guy hid out under the cage for 8 hours while the testers waited for him at his gym.
He was there hiding. Why was he hiding for a whole day when he was supposed to be there training with his trainer waiting for him to show up?

Listen to top trainers or what Mike Dolce calls Drug coaches, when they say that 99% of people know everything they have ever done their entire life. And When. They talk about what they did for each competition, for decades prior. People know..

Listen to the Mike Dolce podcast and/or Joe Rogan and they specifically talk about how The
"I don't know where this came from or how it got in my system" excuse can only be used by FIRST TIME extremely Naive womens fitness and bikinii chicks whos trainer has them on a "supplement protocol". They even said that even women quickly "Know they are using something", they just don't want to talk about it or how "Dat ass" and capped delts, appear so quickly.

The First time they start out with a " trainer" or what Mike Dolce calls, and I quote him here on his Podcast, ....Lets be completely honest and call it what it is, A Drug Coach.

They specifically talked about if there is any sport or competition where money, or endorsement deals, etc etc on the line, there is cheating in every sport, and some are using every advantage they can to try and win. Legal or not. Tested or not.

Wheeler mentioned he knew the same drug coaches some golfers used, Car racers, crossfit athletes, womens fitness athletes, etc etc etc. Top Names in all kinds of sports who are using all kinds of various things.

Tickle should have known these results even before Wada did to confirm WADA ir USADAs test results.
Every athlete knows how to do this. Even no name athletes and regular joes. And most tested athletes do this immediately.

In fact, they know their own test results before WADA or USADAs tests come back. Then they sit and wait for the good, or bad news.

And whoever mention Qatar or whatever, thats all irrelevant, alot of Wadas testing is at labs right here in the USA.

APLMAN99
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5/2/2018 10:19pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong......but weren't you one of the guys in here defending James to the bitter end , on a drug that is the...
Correct me if I'm wrong......but weren't you one of the guys in here defending James to the bitter end , on a drug that is the most popular cheater drug on planet earth? If so.....why would James be innocent and Broc guilty?
I think that by most accounts, James was taking a medication that was prescribed for him by a physician. I haven't seen anything where James has denied taking the meds, only that he handled it wrong by not completing the TUE process.

Tickle, on other hand, says that he didn't take the substance in question, at least knowingly. That eliminates any of the element of not fully understanding the TUE process or anything else like that.
Lucifa.
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5/2/2018 10:20pm
JM485 wrote:
Uh, no, I was asking one bro who was so sure of himself exactly how he would go about making sure he never invested any of...
Uh, no, I was asking one bro who was so sure of himself exactly how he would go about making sure he never invested any of the banned substances found within the link I posted, about 99% of which I couldn't even pronounce let alone know where they might be found.

And I'd have to disagree about the meat, I don't believe for a second there aren't hormones and other weird crap in our meat here, regardless of how well it's "checked".
Drew Blood wrote:
Its never happened, and the meat thing only gets blamed when in 3rd world countries. And even if it was, it doesnt produce amounts in the...
Its never happened, and the meat thing only gets blamed when in 3rd world countries. And even if it was, it doesnt produce amounts in the body that would look like cheating.

When an apple sticker says "Granny Smith Apples" should I be worried its laced with pseudo illegal drugs?

Or do people blame their Bananas for their booger sugar positive test?

I really like Oregano in my pizza sauce. Can people blame that also for THC?

Tickle could have simply known this was coming even before Wada did.
Ive been tested 5 times and had my resullts back before I was notified of anything.

In fact, I had my results back in 2 days for piss, 7 for blood. Tested athletes know whats coming down the pike long before it comes out from Wada. Or they should.

I just got off the phone with Contador. He raves about Spanish beef and said to tell you Spain ain't no 3rd world country Tongue
APLMAN99
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5/2/2018 10:42pm
JM485 wrote:
Uh, no, I was asking one bro who was so sure of himself exactly how he would go about making sure he never invested any of...
Uh, no, I was asking one bro who was so sure of himself exactly how he would go about making sure he never invested any of the banned substances found within the link I posted, about 99% of which I couldn't even pronounce let alone know where they might be found.

And I'd have to disagree about the meat, I don't believe for a second there aren't hormones and other weird crap in our meat here, regardless of how well it's "checked".
Drew Blood wrote:
Its never happened, and the meat thing only gets blamed when in 3rd world countries. And even if it was, it doesnt produce amounts in the...
Its never happened, and the meat thing only gets blamed when in 3rd world countries. And even if it was, it doesnt produce amounts in the body that would look like cheating.

When an apple sticker says "Granny Smith Apples" should I be worried its laced with pseudo illegal drugs?

Or do people blame their Bananas for their booger sugar positive test?

I really like Oregano in my pizza sauce. Can people blame that also for THC?

Tickle could have simply known this was coming even before Wada did.
Ive been tested 5 times and had my resullts back before I was notified of anything.

In fact, I had my results back in 2 days for piss, 7 for blood. Tested athletes know whats coming down the pike long before it comes out from Wada. Or they should.

Why would WADA be testing a failed mortgage processor? I can't seem to find a Paul Garthw**te in any competition that would require WADA or USADA testing............
jeffro503
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5/2/2018 11:03pm
JM485 wrote:
Uh, no, I was asking one bro who was so sure of himself exactly how he would go about making sure he never invested any of...
Uh, no, I was asking one bro who was so sure of himself exactly how he would go about making sure he never invested any of the banned substances found within the link I posted, about 99% of which I couldn't even pronounce let alone know where they might be found.

And I'd have to disagree about the meat, I don't believe for a second there aren't hormones and other weird crap in our meat here, regardless of how well it's "checked".
Drew Blood wrote:
Its never happened, and the meat thing only gets blamed when in 3rd world countries. And even if it was, it doesnt produce amounts in the...
Its never happened, and the meat thing only gets blamed when in 3rd world countries. And even if it was, it doesnt produce amounts in the body that would look like cheating.

When an apple sticker says "Granny Smith Apples" should I be worried its laced with pseudo illegal drugs?

Or do people blame their Bananas for their booger sugar positive test?

I really like Oregano in my pizza sauce. Can people blame that also for THC?

Tickle could have simply known this was coming even before Wada did.
Ive been tested 5 times and had my resullts back before I was notified of anything.

In fact, I had my results back in 2 days for piss, 7 for blood. Tested athletes know whats coming down the pike long before it comes out from Wada. Or they should.

APLMAN99 wrote:
Why would WADA be testing a failed mortgage processor? I can't seem to find a Paul Garthw**te in any competition that would require WADA or USADA...
Why would WADA be testing a failed mortgage processor? I can't seem to find a Paul Garthw**te in any competition that would require WADA or USADA testing............
What's weird is....earlier this afternoon I asked that EXACT question......and it got deleted? He keeps talking in " his experience of sending in his blood for dope testing ". I asked why , since he's never competed in any motorsports competition worth getting tested for. You'll notice he'll avoid these question like the plaque.
lostboy819
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5/2/2018 11:44pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think that by most accounts, James was taking a medication that was prescribed for him by a physician. I haven't seen anything where James has...
I think that by most accounts, James was taking a medication that was prescribed for him by a physician. I haven't seen anything where James has denied taking the meds, only that he handled it wrong by not completing the TUE process.

Tickle, on other hand, says that he didn't take the substance in question, at least knowingly. That eliminates any of the element of not fully understanding the TUE process or anything else like that.
This could be wrong but I have heard that the amounts he was taking would far exceed what a Doctor would prescribe and what a TUE would cover for ADD and the amount he was taking would be a PED again no hard facts one way or the other just what has been said. Its too bad that SX/MX has come to this but with the money involved it had to happen.
Mit12
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5/2/2018 11:51pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2018 11:53pm
Mit12 wrote:
I am not buying that Tickle has no idea how or what he ate or drank that caused him to fail this drug test. I would...
I am not buying that Tickle has no idea how or what he ate or drank that caused him to fail this drug test. I would be curious tosee how much he had in his system and how far over the threshold he was. I have been involved in drug testing for over 25 years and I have heard every excuse You could imagine. It sucks that the suspension is so harsh and that no one from WADA or the FIM is helping Tickle prove his innocence. We must realize that we are not talking about 5 riders a year coming up dirty we are talking about 3 riders from this series in the last 5 years? And this is the only rider that was caught for taking a banned substance that is not prescribed.

In saying all that I hope that the FIM/AMA can come up with a testing organization that they can work with to come up with penalties that make since. Failing a drug test for the first time should not end your career.
jeffro503 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong......but weren't you one of the guys in here defending James to the bitter end , on a drug that is the...
Correct me if I'm wrong......but weren't you one of the guys in here defending James to the bitter end , on a drug that is the most popular cheater drug on planet earth? If so.....why would James be innocent and Broc guilty?
No I never defended James, you have me mixed up with some one else. James knew he was taking something that was banned and tried to say he just forgot to file the paper work. You will not find me defending any person that fails a drug test. My job depended on me being clean and I stayed clean and I expect the riders to do the same.
Motofinne
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5/3/2018 1:59am
Here is a hot take:

Don't take banned substances.
Robgvx
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5/3/2018 2:55am
Motofinne wrote:
Here is a hot take:

Don't take banned substances.
All problems addressed in one sentence.
APLMAN99
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5/3/2018 5:43am
lostboy819 wrote:
This could be wrong but I have heard that the amounts he was taking would far exceed what a Doctor would prescribe and what a TUE...
This could be wrong but I have heard that the amounts he was taking would far exceed what a Doctor would prescribe and what a TUE would cover for ADD and the amount he was taking would be a PED again no hard facts one way or the other just what has been said. Its too bad that SX/MX has come to this but with the money involved it had to happen.
When testing comes back and levels of a substance are higher than allowed therapeutic levels, it seems to be mentioned in the violation announcement. That wasn't mentioned in the announcement about James' violation, nor do I recall it being in his appeal or the decision announced after that.

The "levels too high" rumor seemed to be one of those things that started as a "what if" and morphed into an accepted fact by some. There just doesn't seem to be any real evidence of it being true.
FreshTopEnd
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5/3/2018 6:42am
APLMAN99 wrote:
When testing comes back and levels of a substance are higher than allowed therapeutic levels, it seems to be mentioned in the violation announcement. That wasn't...
When testing comes back and levels of a substance are higher than allowed therapeutic levels, it seems to be mentioned in the violation announcement. That wasn't mentioned in the announcement about James' violation, nor do I recall it being in his appeal or the decision announced after that.

The "levels too high" rumor seemed to be one of those things that started as a "what if" and morphed into an accepted fact by some. There just doesn't seem to be any real evidence of it being true.
Moreover, his request for a TUE going forward.was granted.
tprice07
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5/3/2018 7:36am
Motofinne wrote:
Here is a hot take:

Don't take banned substances.
An even hotter take:

Don't get caught.
500guy
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5/3/2018 7:42am
it seems to me unless something changes drastically, Tickle is done

It's a simple as this. They say you failed the test you are suspended , fight it if you want but as soon as the B sample is tested you are done.
jeffro503
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5/3/2018 8:40am
lostboy819 wrote:
This could be wrong but I have heard that the amounts he was taking would far exceed what a Doctor would prescribe and what a TUE...
This could be wrong but I have heard that the amounts he was taking would far exceed what a Doctor would prescribe and what a TUE would cover for ADD and the amount he was taking would be a PED again no hard facts one way or the other just what has been said. Its too bad that SX/MX has come to this but with the money involved it had to happen.
APLMAN99 wrote:
When testing comes back and levels of a substance are higher than allowed therapeutic levels, it seems to be mentioned in the violation announcement. That wasn't...
When testing comes back and levels of a substance are higher than allowed therapeutic levels, it seems to be mentioned in the violation announcement. That wasn't mentioned in the announcement about James' violation, nor do I recall it being in his appeal or the decision announced after that.

The "levels too high" rumor seemed to be one of those things that started as a "what if" and morphed into an accepted fact by some. There just doesn't seem to be any real evidence of it being true.
I'm on your side on this topic now days. With that exact drug being abused by so many athletes , that really didn't need it to begin with , they took it for an advantage. I didn't believe him then , but now days I try and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm all for punishing an athlete for breaking the rules , but I totally disagree with the length of suspension . it is WAY to long , and just not right.
lostboy819
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5/3/2018 10:00am
lostboy819 wrote:
This could be wrong but I have heard that the amounts he was taking would far exceed what a Doctor would prescribe and what a TUE...
This could be wrong but I have heard that the amounts he was taking would far exceed what a Doctor would prescribe and what a TUE would cover for ADD and the amount he was taking would be a PED again no hard facts one way or the other just what has been said. Its too bad that SX/MX has come to this but with the money involved it had to happen.
APLMAN99 wrote:
When testing comes back and levels of a substance are higher than allowed therapeutic levels, it seems to be mentioned in the violation announcement. That wasn't...
When testing comes back and levels of a substance are higher than allowed therapeutic levels, it seems to be mentioned in the violation announcement. That wasn't mentioned in the announcement about James' violation, nor do I recall it being in his appeal or the decision announced after that.

The "levels too high" rumor seemed to be one of those things that started as a "what if" and morphed into an accepted fact by some. There just doesn't seem to be any real evidence of it being true.
jeffro503 wrote:
I'm on your side on this topic now days. With that exact drug being abused by so many athletes , that really didn't need it to...
I'm on your side on this topic now days. With that exact drug being abused by so many athletes , that really didn't need it to begin with , they took it for an advantage. I didn't believe him then , but now days I try and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm all for punishing an athlete for breaking the rules , but I totally disagree with the length of suspension . it is WAY to long , and just not right.
I think that is one thing that most of us all agree on is that the punishment and length of suspension are to severe for a first time failed test. I hope they can come up with a better way but doubt they will even consider it.
Mit12
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5/3/2018 10:56am
Thresholds are set for all banned substances this is why people do not fail drug test on accident. For example, pot stays in your system for 30 days. If you were to walk into a room that people were smoking pot turn around and leave you will pass a drug test the next day. As far as Aldon being afraid to let his riders eat red meat because of feer of hormones in the meat, complete BS!
tek14
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5/3/2018 10:59am
Motofinne wrote:
Here is a hot take:

Don't take banned substances.
There you have it. No need to tell its someone else fault.
10000hrs
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5/5/2018 4:33am Edited Date/Time 5/5/2018 4:42am
Todays Wall Street Journal Headline:

Cycling Star Chris Froome Is Racing in the Giro d’Italia, and It’s Awkward

The four-time Tour de France winner and Team Sky star failed a doping test but is still allowed to compete until proceedings are completed

To read click this and then click FOLLOW LINK

https://www.facebook.com/flx/warn/?u=https://www.wsj.com/articles/cycli…

So I dont understand why Froome can compete but Tickle cant.

5/5/2018 1:01pm
GuyB wrote:
Here's hoping it does...before it costs him a career. Our guys race weekly during the season. With that kind of frequency, they need fast answers, not...
Here's hoping it does...before it costs him a career.

Our guys race weekly during the season. With that kind of frequency, they need fast answers, not the equivalent of bureaucratic molasses for testing, retesting, and issuance of penalties.

If a rider is appealing a result, they should also get a chance to retest. Personally, I think they should also be able to keep racing, with the points and purse money that they earn held provisionally by the AMA. If the rider retests okay, they're good to go without losing a substantial part of the season. If not, they lose them.

I also think that penalties should be issued by folks within our series Iike reps from the various OEMs, or the AMA; not outside of it.

Talking with Aldon this weekend, they're still trying to figure out where the substance even came from. Was it a supplement? Some kind of medication? They don't know.

Aldon also mentioned that's one of the reasons he's against his riders eating red meat...he's spooked about hormones.

Zach Osborne also told me that he never drinks from a water bottle that he doesn't crack open himself.

It's a little spooky for the riders out there.
It is interesting that the 'moto scene' is so damn slow to be cautious like this, As a MTB/BMX team manager guy in my past life, all the way back to the mid 90's, you didn't take ANY cold medications, you didn't drink from ANYONE's water bottle, you didn't take any thing from anyone, because you didn't want any cross contamination and get tested...and outside of that, you trained, ate right, and tried to win---NATURALLY. And the meat thing haha, thats another great one, When Paola Pezzo got busted for steroids (Olympic MTB gold medalist) she tried to claim it was from red meat hormones....good lord. I've seen it all and heard it all, its funny to hear all this horsecrap rehashed in moto some 20 yrs later.

They don't know where it came from?? That is preposterous, quit the shit.

It's not spooky if you just do the right thing.

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