Is Tickle's Case going to change things?

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4/29/2018 8:30 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/29/2018 8:32 PM

http://racerxonline.com/2018/04/27/broc-tickle-issues-statement-regarding-provisional-suspension

Something doesnt seem right? And surely someone must see Broc's point on the process.

What i mean is that the FIM opts into the process. Surely they could negotiate an agreement for how the process is managed for MX/SX riders.

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4/29/2018 9:12 PM

We're talking WADA here... So sadly no.

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2003 CR250R - 2006 KX250 (freessshhhh)

4/29/2018 9:24 PM

You or I will never change the way WADA thinks. The only way to change things....would be to not include them. Which I don't think will ever happen , when the rest of the world abides by their rules. And if we want to stay part of the " world sports ".......this , unfortunately is what has to happen.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

4/29/2018 9:49 PM

Fire them. Don't look back. Others will follow the lead.

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4/29/2018 10:34 PM

PTshox wrote:

Fire them. Don't look back. Others will follow the lead.

Agreed.

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4/29/2018 11:58 PM

Yes. Dont use doping and you are fine. More people will quit using as they see it will bring 2-4 years ban from their job/hobby.

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4/30/2018 12:30 AM

The powers that are in place in moto don’t care, as long as there is another guy to fill his spot.

If 30 guys in the 450sx got banned on the same weekend, they would fix it! Until then, nothing will change.

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4/30/2018 6:15 AM

Isn't WADA "hired" by FIM, so working for them? Surely they (FIM) can decide what the penalties should be and not WADA, right? If not that's crazy, maybe I should tell my boss how I should be treated instead of the other way around...

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4/30/2018 6:20 AM

No it won't change a thing. An athlete who was caught with a forbidden substance gets caught. he can make as much noise as he wants and get all his fans to back him up, American pseudo-journalists included, he was still caught doing something illegal.

its not like Bill Cosby refuting accusations and all his fans screaming witch hunt here, it's a illegal product found in an athlete's urine. Now his team needs to find out where/how/why did he ingest it.

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"What are you waiting for? You're faster than this. Don't think you are, know you are. Come on."

4/30/2018 6:23 AM

motoplook wrote:

No it won't change a thing. An athlete who was caught with a forbidden substance gets caught. he can make as much noise as he wants and get all his fans to back him up, American pseudo-journalists included, he was still caught doing something illegal.

its not like Bill Cosby refuting accusations and all his fans screaming witch hunt here, it's a illegal product found in an athlete's urine. Now his team needs to find out where/how/why did he ingest it.

Unless the testing company somehow got something mixed up!

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4/30/2018 6:31 AM

NO

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4/30/2018 7:12 AM

WADA does. Not. Give. A. Damn.

It is guilty until proven innocent...but they don't want to prove he's innocent, they want to keep him guilty because it's easier.

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4/30/2018 7:57 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

The powers that are in place in moto don’t care, as long as there is another guy to fill his spot.

If 30 guys in the 450sx got banned on the same weekend, they would fix it! Until then, nothing will change.

Maybe, depends how strongly “management” feel about it. I once worked in a place where they targeted a certain crew for suspected drug use. Nailed half the team at the start of their shift, and shut the place down until enough replacements could be found. This was an operation where the revenue loss was a couple of hundred grand per hour.

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4/30/2018 8:06 AM

“...and no evidence”.

Actually they do have evidence - he failed a drug test.

Provisional suspensions occur in all sorts of occupations. It has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. If you are charged with a crime you don’t get to walk around freely until your trial - you are either retained in custody or required to provide some sort of financial bond.

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4/30/2018 9:20 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/30/2018 9:22 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

The powers that are in place in moto don’t care, as long as there is another guy to fill his spot.

If 30 guys in the 450sx got banned on the same weekend, they would fix it! Until then, nothing will change.

ando wrote:

Maybe, depends how strongly “management” feel about it. I once worked in a place where they targeted a certain crew for suspected drug use. Nailed half the team at the start of their shift, and shut the place down until enough replacements could be found. This was an operation where the revenue loss was a couple of hundred grand per hour.

Ouch!

My guess is: if three quarters of the 450 field got booted, everybody would do something. I have a feeling it’s one of the reasons they don’t do everyone!

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4/30/2018 10:38 AM

kkawboy14 wrote:

Ouch!

My guess is: if three quarters of the 450 field got booted, everybody would do something. I have a feeling it’s one of the reasons they don’t do everyone!

Maybe three quarters of the 450 field are not taking a banned substance. It seems that the drug testing is a success so far and just because a couple of riders get caught does not make it a failure,how about all the riders who pass.

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Ed Johnson

4/30/2018 10:42 AM

motoplook wrote:

No it won't change a thing. An athlete who was caught with a forbidden substance gets caught. he can make as much noise as he wants and get all his fans to back him up, American pseudo-journalists included, he was still caught doing something illegal.

its not like Bill Cosby refuting accusations and all his fans screaming witch hunt here, it's a illegal product found in an athlete's urine. Now his team needs to find out where/how/why did he ingest it.

kkawboy14 wrote:

Unless the testing company somehow got something mixed up!

Cross contamination does happen. The problem is proving it.

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4/30/2018 10:56 AM

Here's hoping it does...before it costs him a career.

Our guys race weekly during the season. With that kind of frequency, they need fast answers, not the equivalent of bureaucratic molasses for testing, retesting, and issuance of penalties.

If a rider is appealing a result, they should also get a chance to retest. Personally, I think they should also be able to keep racing, with the points and purse money that they earn held provisionally by the AMA. If the rider retests okay, they're good to go without losing a substantial part of the season. If not, they lose them.

I also think that penalties should be issued by folks within our series Iike reps from the various OEMs, or the AMA; not outside of it.

Talking with Aldon this weekend, they're still trying to figure out where the substance even came from. Was it a supplement? Some kind of medication? They don't know.

Aldon also mentioned that's one of the reasons he's against his riders eating red meat...he's spooked about hormones.

Zach Osborne also told me that he never drinks from a water bottle that he doesn't crack open himself.

It's a little spooky for the riders out there.

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4/30/2018 11:15 AM

^^^Word. It shouldn't be handled by an org that seems to embrace every negative union cliche under the sun. Should be managed by people in the industry who care about the sport. And I can't see any personal substance issue being reason for more than a 1yr ban.

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4/30/2018 11:16 AM

It seems to me that the FIM and WADA presume a rider is GUILTY until proven innocent, when our American culture is just the reverse. This just sucks for Brock and the process is just an embarrassment to a "professional" sport. Neither the AMA nor FIM doesn't seem to give a rats ass about the process either. I just don't understand why???

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Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

4/30/2018 11:22 AM

Oh, we have plenty of it here. Tax court for example, they make the accusations and decide the punishments and it's up to you to prove otherwise.

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4/30/2018 5:39 PM

GuyB wrote:

Here's hoping it does...before it costs him a career.

Our guys race weekly during the season. With that kind of frequency, they need fast answers, not the equivalent of bureaucratic molasses for testing, retesting, and issuance of penalties.

If a rider is appealing a result, they should also get a chance to retest. Personally, I think they should also be able to keep racing, with the points and purse money that they earn held provisionally by the AMA. If the rider retests okay, they're good to go without losing a substantial part of the season. If not, they lose them.

I also think that penalties should be issued by folks within our series Iike reps from the various OEMs, or the AMA; not outside of it.

Talking with Aldon this weekend, they're still trying to figure out where the substance even came from. Was it a supplement? Some kind of medication? They don't know.

Aldon also mentioned that's one of the reasons he's against his riders eating red meat...he's spooked about hormones.

Zach Osborne also told me that he never drinks from a water bottle that he doesn't crack open himself.

It's a little spooky for the riders out there.

Agreed

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4/30/2018 6:26 PM

Ryno23 wrote:

It seems to me that the FIM and WADA presume a rider is GUILTY until proven innocent, when our American culture is just the reverse. This just sucks for Brock and the process is just an embarrassment to a "professional" sport. Neither the AMA nor FIM doesn't seem to give a rats ass about the process either. I just don't understand why???

WADA doesn't presume anything, they administer the test and report the results. The failed test is the guilty verdict and the B sample will be the appeal and I bet he fails that one too. I do agree the penalty is way too stiff for the sport but with the money Baker charges Brock should have followed Bakers plan to a T and all his other riders passed the drug tests. WADA and FIM may be a Chinese fire drill but the AMA is just as bad.

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Ed Johnson

5/1/2018 11:17 AM

WADA is a joke, I agree.. Watch Icarus, if you haven't

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5/1/2018 1:00 PM

GuyB wrote:

Here's hoping it does...before it costs him a career.

Our guys race weekly during the season. With that kind of frequency, they need fast answers, not the equivalent of bureaucratic molasses for testing, retesting, and issuance of penalties.

If a rider is appealing a result, they should also get a chance to retest. Personally, I think they should also be able to keep racing, with the points and purse money that they earn held provisionally by the AMA. If the rider retests okay, they're good to go without losing a substantial part of the season. If not, they lose them.

I also think that penalties should be issued by folks within our series Iike reps from the various OEMs, or the AMA; not outside of it.

Talking with Aldon this weekend, they're still trying to figure out where the substance even came from. Was it a supplement? Some kind of medication? They don't know.

Aldon also mentioned that's one of the reasons he's against his riders eating red meat...he's spooked about hormones.

Zach Osborne also told me that he never drinks from a water bottle that he doesn't crack open himself.

It's a little spooky for the riders out there.

Great post.

It's not the testing that's bad, it's the inefficient system and the outsourcing penalties to other agencies. Keep the testing, make the appeal process reasonable, as you suggest. And most important IMO, make the penalties appropriate for advantage gained and consistent with equipment and on track behavior penalties. Consider the disparity between Tickle facing a 4 year suspension for a substance vs. Mike Alessi getting a $4k fine and probation for his take out of Tickle in 2014.

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5/1/2018 1:59 PM

GuyB wrote:

Here's hoping it does...before it costs him a career.

Our guys race weekly during the season. With that kind of frequency, they need fast answers, not the equivalent of bureaucratic molasses for testing, retesting, and issuance of penalties.

If a rider is appealing a result, they should also get a chance to retest. Personally, I think they should also be able to keep racing, with the points and purse money that they earn held provisionally by the AMA. If the rider retests okay, they're good to go without losing a substantial part of the season. If not, they lose them.

I also think that penalties should be issued by folks within our series Iike reps from the various OEMs, or the AMA; not outside of it.

Talking with Aldon this weekend, they're still trying to figure out where the substance even came from. Was it a supplement? Some kind of medication? They don't know.

Aldon also mentioned that's one of the reasons he's against his riders eating red meat...he's spooked about hormones.

Zach Osborne also told me that he never drinks from a water bottle that he doesn't crack open himself.

It's a little spooky for the riders out there.

How horrible is that though? Aldon is spooked because of hormones in red meat? How is that ok with anyone?

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5/1/2018 6:12 PM

The way the FIM is handling the situation sounds very familiar, he should just expect the same punishment and handling of the situation that James got. Let's just hope he's clean, and let's hope a better process is commenced regarding testing appeals etc.

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5/1/2018 6:21 PM

GuyB wrote:

Here's hoping it does...before it costs him a career.

Our guys race weekly during the season. With that kind of frequency, they need fast answers, not the equivalent of bureaucratic molasses for testing, retesting, and issuance of penalties.

If a rider is appealing a result, they should also get a chance to retest. Personally, I think they should also be able to keep racing, with the points and purse money that they earn held provisionally by the AMA. If the rider retests okay, they're good to go without losing a substantial part of the season. If not, they lose them.

I also think that penalties should be issued by folks within our series Iike reps from the various OEMs, or the AMA; not outside of it.

Talking with Aldon this weekend, they're still trying to figure out where the substance even came from. Was it a supplement? Some kind of medication? They don't know.

Aldon also mentioned that's one of the reasons he's against his riders eating red meat...he's spooked about hormones.

Zach Osborne also told me that he never drinks from a water bottle that he doesn't crack open himself.

It's a little spooky for the riders out there.

Ya but according to experts here this is all perfectly reasonable and everyone should be able to handle it no problem. . .

This whole system is so bass ackwards I don't even know how I would explain it to someone who asked me about it in any sort of logical way, it's completely void of reasoning.

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5/1/2018 10:02 PM

JM485 wrote:

Ya but according to experts here this is all perfectly reasonable and everyone should be able to handle it no problem. . .

This whole system is so bass ackwards I don't even know how I would explain it to someone who asked me about it in any sort of logical way, it's completely void of reasoning.

But in the other thread you were asking how would anyone know what they can and can't eat!
Ever heard of real food?
You don't find banned drugs in real food. Or pop tarts.

The only place they find anything in meat now is in 3rd world countries. And that is rare. Meat here is checked pretty often by the FDA and USDA since the early 90s or so.

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5/1/2018 11:02 PM

GuyB wrote:

Here's hoping it does...before it costs him a career.

Our guys race weekly during the season. With that kind of frequency, they need fast answers, not the equivalent of bureaucratic molasses for testing, retesting, and issuance of penalties.

If a rider is appealing a result, they should also get a chance to retest. Personally, I think they should also be able to keep racing, with the points and purse money that they earn held provisionally by the AMA. If the rider retests okay, they're good to go without losing a substantial part of the season. If not, they lose them.

I also think that penalties should be issued by folks within our series Iike reps from the various OEMs, or the AMA; not outside of it.

Talking with Aldon this weekend, they're still trying to figure out where the substance even came from. Was it a supplement? Some kind of medication? They don't know.

Aldon also mentioned that's one of the reasons he's against his riders eating red meat...he's spooked about hormones.

Zach Osborne also told me that he never drinks from a water bottle that he doesn't crack open himself.

It's a little spooky for the riders out there.

Man that was a great post Steve! Didn't think to hear such a strong reply from you on this matter. Nice to see , and I agree 100%.

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And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja