Is Eli Tomac the strangest competitor is all of racing sports...?

At some point, "random issues" are not random. More reason why Ryan Dungey will be viewed as one of the best in the history of MX/SX. If they were random, he would have experienced them as well, but rarely did he.

rutsmash wrote:

At some point, "random issues" are not random. More reason why Ryan Dungey will be viewed as one of the best in the history of MX/SX. If they were random, he would have experienced them as well, but rarely did he.

How true is that. I was a huge Dungey fan, and the more hate he received the more I liked the guy. People want to argue about speed. Hell, I can beat any guy in racing through the first corner.....just don’t let off. But the point of racing is not riding fast, it’s winning. But like you say, dungey had none of those issues. He didn’t have tip overs, and mental errors. I actually have always been a big Tomac defender until last year when he showed zero urgency and let the points lead go. Like didn’t even try to start the bike fast. The pants issues is just embarrassing......then quitting. What is going through that guys melon is a pure mystery......maybe he needs some adderall....where’s Stew??!

Was a weird crash. Be interesting to see what the post race diagnosis is.

Pretty crazy swing when you think about it. If he won A1, it's probably lights-out all season. That dude with confidence is basically forget about it.

Instead Kenny is probably rubbing his gammy wing against his other one and Marvin is feeling in the clear.

I swear he has some sort of anxiety (keyboard Dr.) or something. Which is totally okay if he does, but man how else do you explain some of the things he goes through? Like casing the double of a SX triple when just trying to get around the track.

All I know is, if this year repeats like last, he'll dig himself out of the trench and make it a fun finale. Fingers crossed anyway. Always a bummer to see someone toss away the title hopes like that.

Crush wrote:

Was a weird crash. Be interesting to see what the post race diagnosis is.

Pretty crazy swing when you think about it. If he won A1, it's probably lights-out all season. That dude with confidence is basically forget about it.

Instead Kenny is probably rubbing his gammy wing against his other one and Marvin is feeling in the clear.

I don’t know man. It’s never been lights out with Eli. It’s only lights out with no one thinks he has a chance. The second he’s “the guy” some ridiculous situation happens. I mean between MX and SX, it’s like every year with the guy. I actually had him picked for A1......but just left shaking my head. Whether it’s a Honda, brakes, master cylinders, rotors, shoulders, pants.......I just don’t know if I believe the guy can complete a dominating season anymore. History will be very kind to Dungey for literally avoiding this stuff every single year. Anyway, I hope the guys gets it together......but if Marvin can ride fast enough that he can afford to go full on Frenchie and jump all the whoops this season, he just might get himself a trophy.

Tomac seems a little like Stewart to me. I remember when Tomac was in the 250's, he would jump some stuff only the 450 guys were doing, much like Stewart in his day on the 125. We know how Stewart is thought of as now...fastest guy but crashed a lot! sound familiar? Here is my theory, they are so good their talent was meant for a smaller bore bike...the bigger bike has too much power and they don/t need it! so they over-ride the track..??? well, maybe or maybe not but just damn strange. It would be interesting to know if Tomac has these tip overs at his track in Colorado?

He’s a hard one to figure out. When I saw him get the holeshot I figured there was about a 99.99% chance that he would go wire to wire. I hope he’s not out and can make it back for round 2

rutsmash wrote:

Tomac seems a little like Stewart to me. I remember when Tomac was in the 250's, he would jump some stuff only the 450 guys were doing, much like Stewart in his day on the 125. We know how Stewart is thought of as now...fastest guy but crashed a lot! sound familiar? Here is my theory, they are so good their talent was meant for a smaller bore bike...the bigger bike has too much power and they don/t need it! so they over-ride the track..??? well, maybe or maybe not but just damn strange. It would be interesting to know if Tomac has these tip overs at his track in Colorado?

If? Well he grew up in Cortez which is not close to Thunder Valley. But Thunder Valley is where he had his biggest wreck ever amid a season of utter domination.

But I tend to agree with the Stewart analogy.....although I thought you were going another direction. It seemed to me towards the end of Stewart’s career he was not happy playing second fiddle to anyone, once he wasn’t winning he would either crash or quit. He was not a mentally guy like an RV, guys that would grind, get passed and be able to find another gear laps later. Tomac almost seems like that. He either wants to be the star of the show by dropping everyone by 30 seconds, or he’s just not interested in being out there. I remember more than one time I saw StewRt just unannounced ride off the track with no real reason. I’m not saying Eli wasn’t hurt......but you would never see the majority of racers leave the track unless dragged off. Shit, Roczen about had his arm amputated less than a year ago!!!

KennyT wrote:

He’s a hard one to figure out. When I saw him get the holeshot I figured there was about a 99.99% chance that he would go wire to wire. I hope he’s not out and can make it back for round 2

I did too. I had picked him to win, when he ripped the hole shot.....I started patting myself on the back cause I was the only one that had picked Tomac. When he started playing with his pants, then doing a parade lap and rode off I was like, really....this again! I’m done with Tomac. Nice kid but he has no grit, no killswitch......things have been too easy for the kid and he doesn’t handle adversity welll.

Tomac lets things to get to him, he starts hearing that hes a choker from the fan's and media and starts believing/questioning himself then it manifests with in him.

It doesn't help when Ralph and Jeff mention his mental issues whenever something happens to him, the demons will just grow, he needs to learn how to block everything out and start believing in himself.

A prime example is Kennys tactics last year how saying he's unbeatable, Tomac entered the championship as if he was already beat by Kenny, as soon as Kenny goes down he gains speed faster than anyone that year, he was never worried about Dungey in speed it was all about Kenny for him since his opinion of Dungey's speed was low he killed Dungey until he questioned if he can actually win the championship and the rest is history.

The boy is smart but he needs to stop questioning himself and start believing.

Kenny on the other hand you can bet that he visualizes success all the time and believes it, We don't even know how that arm feels for him he hasn't even mentioned it but the difference is he doesn't let that arm get in the way of his vision

I wonder what the ratio of crashes are?
Is it a stretch to think that Tomac has crashed more in the last two seasons than say Dungey did throughout his entire pro career?

DrinkMoreWater wrote:

Tomac lets things to get to him, he starts hearing that hes a choker from the fan's and media and starts believing/questioning himself then it manifests with in him.

It doesn't help when Ralph and Jeff mention his mental issues whenever something happens to him, the demons will just grow, he needs to learn how to block everything out and start believing in himself.

A prime example is Kennys tactics last year how saying he's unbeatable, Tomac entered the championship as if he was already beat by Kenny, as soon as Kenny goes down he gains speed faster than anyone that year, he was never worried about Dungey in speed it was all about Kenny for him since his opinion of Dungey's speed was low he killed Dungey until he questioned if he can actually win the championship and the rest is history.

The boy is smart but he needs to stop questioning himself and start believing.

Kenny on the other hand you can bet that he visualizes success all the time and believes it, We don't even know how that arm feels for him he hasn't even mentioned it but the difference is he doesn't let that arm get in the way of his vision

Totally agree with this, it’s mental toughness and grit that he lacks. But I’m gonna go on a limb and say, I really don’t think this is something you can teach. Maybe from a very young age, but I really believe you either have that killer instinct or you don’t. I’ve seen enough of Eli’s endeavors that I don’t know he can ever change it. I mean, as far as his career it’s either now or never and I just think there’s too many guys like Roczen who will LITERALLY give a limb to win. I’ve never really been a huge Roczen fan just cause some of the issues him and his dad have had with teams in the past, but I gotta say, after watching this guy refuse to quit and literally go in 11 months from a guy possibly facing life with 1 arm to a guy with a legit shot at the title, I have nothing but respect. And again, I just think the fields too thick for Eli to ever dominate in the way that we alllll thought he would. And I agree about the naysayers, but guys that TRULY believe in themselves are undeterred by external doubt....in fact for guys with a motor like that, it’s frickin coal for the fire.

Maybe he just rung his bell and went a little wacky before he knew he was too screwed up to finish the race.

I never saw any after race interviews or anything, but it was a strange way for him to finish the night for sure. I hope he's OK. He was hauling before the crash.

sickboy3636 wrote:

Totally agree with this, it’s mental toughness and grit that he lacks. But I’m gonna go on a limb and say, I really don’t think this is something you can teach. Maybe from a very young age, but I really believe you either have that killer instinct or you don’t. I’ve seen enough of Eli’s endeavors that I don’t know he can ever change it. I mean, as far as his career it’s either now or never and I just think there’s too many guys like Roczen who will LITERALLY give a limb to win. I’ve never really been a huge Roczen fan just cause some of the issues him and his dad have had with teams in the past, but I gotta say, after watching this guy refuse to quit and literally go in 11 months from a guy possibly facing life with 1 arm to a guy with a legit shot at the title, I have nothing but respect. And again, I just think the fields too thick for Eli to ever dominate in the way that we alllll thought he would. And I agree about the naysayers, but guys that TRULY believe in themselves are undeterred by external doubt....in fact for guys with a motor like that, it’s frickin coal for the fire.

Did you miss the part where he hurt himself in the crash.. or..?

sickboy3636 wrote:

Totally agree with this, it’s mental toughness and grit that he lacks. But I’m gonna go on a limb and say, I really don’t think this is something you can teach. Maybe from a very young age, but I really believe you either have that killer instinct or you don’t. I’ve seen enough of Eli’s endeavors that I don’t know he can ever change it. I mean, as far as his career it’s either now or never and I just think there’s too many guys like Roczen who will LITERALLY give a limb to win. I’ve never really been a huge Roczen fan just cause some of the issues him and his dad have had with teams in the past, but I gotta say, after watching this guy refuse to quit and literally go in 11 months from a guy possibly facing life with 1 arm to a guy with a legit shot at the title, I have nothing but respect. And again, I just think the fields too thick for Eli to ever dominate in the way that we alllll thought he would. And I agree about the naysayers, but guys that TRULY believe in themselves are undeterred by external doubt....in fact for guys with a motor like that, it’s frickin coal for the fire.

I think you can teach it but some methods are probably not popular on here but one of them is meditation, but yeah he some how needs to think hes riding on the test track and worry about nothing external.

His MX championship was interesting it's as if he did his best to lose the lead he had.

He needs a good sport psychologist. I’d love the opportunity to work with him for an hour.

DrinkMoreWater wrote:

Tomac lets things to get to him, he starts hearing that hes a choker from the fan's and media and starts believing/questioning himself then it manifests with in him.

It doesn't help when Ralph and Jeff mention his mental issues whenever something happens to him, the demons will just grow, he needs to learn how to block everything out and start believing in himself.

A prime example is Kennys tactics last year how saying he's unbeatable, Tomac entered the championship as if he was already beat by Kenny, as soon as Kenny goes down he gains speed faster than anyone that year, he was never worried about Dungey in speed it was all about Kenny for him since his opinion of Dungey's speed was low he killed Dungey until he questioned if he can actually win the championship and the rest is history.

The boy is smart but he needs to stop questioning himself and start believing.

Kenny on the other hand you can bet that he visualizes success all the time and believes it, We don't even know how that arm feels for him he hasn't even mentioned it but the difference is he doesn't let that arm get in the way of his vision

sickboy3636 wrote:

Totally agree with this, it’s mental toughness and grit that he lacks. But I’m gonna go on a limb and say, I really don’t think this is something you can teach. Maybe from a very young age, but I really believe you either have that killer instinct or you don’t. I’ve seen enough of Eli’s endeavors that I don’t know he can ever change it. I mean, as far as his career it’s either now or never and I just think there’s too many guys like Roczen who will LITERALLY give a limb to win. I’ve never really been a huge Roczen fan just cause some of the issues him and his dad have had with teams in the past, but I gotta say, after watching this guy refuse to quit and literally go in 11 months from a guy possibly facing life with 1 arm to a guy with a legit shot at the title, I have nothing but respect. And again, I just think the fields too thick for Eli to ever dominate in the way that we alllll thought he would. And I agree about the naysayers, but guys that TRULY believe in themselves are undeterred by external doubt....in fact for guys with a motor like that, it’s frickin coal for the fire.

jorgechavez wrote:

Did you miss the part where he hurt himself in the crash.. or..?

It’s always something, and there’s an excuse everytime he pulls off whether it’s bent rotors, sticky masters, faulty pant buckles, bumping his head or other boo boos. The point is it’s a common thread that he’s just quit after other tip overs, set on his bike for 10 seconds without even starting it while the points lead drifted out of reach and everyone from Ralph and Jeff down were scratching their heads. So if I missed soemthing during this race, I’d say you’ve missed the last 3-4 years of watching Eli race. I like Eli, in fact I grew up in CO where’s he’s a local legend so I’ve always pulled for the guy. But there comes a point where it’s not the constant situations and bad luck, it’s you.

Hank_Thrill wrote:

He needs a good sport psychologist. I’d love the opportunity to work with him for an hour.

If you can figure out Eli Tomac in one hour, you need a serious pay raise.

DrinkMoreWater wrote:

Tomac lets things to get to him, he starts hearing that hes a choker from the fan's and media and starts believing/questioning himself then it manifests with in him.

It doesn't help when Ralph and Jeff mention his mental issues whenever something happens to him, the demons will just grow, he needs to learn how to block everything out and start believing in himself.

A prime example is Kennys tactics last year how saying he's unbeatable, Tomac entered the championship as if he was already beat by Kenny, as soon as Kenny goes down he gains speed faster than anyone that year, he was never worried about Dungey in speed it was all about Kenny for him since his opinion of Dungey's speed was low he killed Dungey until he questioned if he can actually win the championship and the rest is history.

The boy is smart but he needs to stop questioning himself and start believing.

Kenny on the other hand you can bet that he visualizes success all the time and believes it, We don't even know how that arm feels for him he hasn't even mentioned it but the difference is he doesn't let that arm get in the way of his vision

sickboy3636 wrote:

Totally agree with this, it’s mental toughness and grit that he lacks. But I’m gonna go on a limb and say, I really don’t think this is something you can teach. Maybe from a very young age, but I really believe you either have that killer instinct or you don’t. I’ve seen enough of Eli’s endeavors that I don’t know he can ever change it. I mean, as far as his career it’s either now or never and I just think there’s too many guys like Roczen who will LITERALLY give a limb to win. I’ve never really been a huge Roczen fan just cause some of the issues him and his dad have had with teams in the past, but I gotta say, after watching this guy refuse to quit and literally go in 11 months from a guy possibly facing life with 1 arm to a guy with a legit shot at the title, I have nothing but respect. And again, I just think the fields too thick for Eli to ever dominate in the way that we alllll thought he would. And I agree about the naysayers, but guys that TRULY believe in themselves are undeterred by external doubt....in fact for guys with a motor like that, it’s frickin coal for the fire.

DrinkMoreWater wrote:

I think you can teach it but some methods are probably not popular on here but one of them is meditation, but yeah he some how needs to think hes riding on the test track and worry about nothing external.

His MX championship was interesting it's as if he did his best to lose the lead he had.

That’s what I’m saying, almost like he’ll sabotage everything so he has no chance.......then when all the pressures off he rides like a bat outta hell. or if he has the championship or the lead, he’ll almost do everything in his power to lose it. That’s kinda what I’m saying......there’s no rhyme or reason, but he’s like the opposite of any other sports competitor under the sun.

He definitely has no urgency when he crashes. I agree completely that he either wants to be out front by 30 seconds or in the trailer. Whenever he crashes you can see him throw in the towel right there. If he can keep it on 2 wheels he has the speed to win. If it comes fown to pure grind and determination its not there. All he has is a bruised shoulder. AC had asterisks pop his shoulder back in and ran full speed and jumped onto his bike.

He absolutely could have salvaged a couple points tonight. You win championships on your bad days and Tomac is bad at having bad days. If he loses by 3 points hes gonna kick himself for this. In the McGrath interview he said his 1 regret is pulling off like a diva vs finishing the race at the back of the pack and losing by a couple points to emig in an mx championship because his ego got to him and he didnt wanna ride around at the back of the pack. That interview immediately came to mind tonight same thing. You have to try to finish until you physically or mechanically can not. That didnt happen tonight his ego got to him and he gave up.

Hank_Thrill wrote:

He needs a good sport psychologist. I’d love the opportunity to work with him for an hour.

sickboy3636 wrote:

If you can figure out Eli Tomac in one hour, you need a serious pay raise.

Well, an hour would be enough to figure out what the issue is. To get things straightened out would depend on many variables. If someone’s foot or shoulder is messed up, they get it fixed without batting an eye. There’s nothing wrong with doing the same if an athlete’s mental fitness needs a little tweaking, imo.

Hank_Thrill wrote:

Well, an hour would be enough to figure out what the issue is. To get things straightened out would depend on many variables. If someone’s foot or shoulder is messed up, they get it fixed without batting an eye. There’s nothing wrong with doing the same if an athlete’s mental fitness needs a little tweaking, imo.

Speaking of a foot, I think maybe he just needs someone to use a foot and boot him right in the ass. Tell him he’s only got a few more years and he’s gonna he past his prime. Or maybe he can go train with the guy that just faced amputation 11 months ago and damn near podiumed. Might put things in perspective the next time he gets a boo boo and wants to quit mid race.

rutsmash wrote:

At some point, "random issues" are not random. More reason why Ryan Dungey will be viewed as one of the best in the history of MX/SX. If they were random, he would have experienced them as well, but rarely did he.

Dungey had arguably two titles robbed from him in 2011 from "random" issues. Broken chain in supercross and boiling fuel in Texas and a bike that wouldn't start later at Southwick.

DrinkMoreWater wrote:

Tomac lets things to get to him, he starts hearing that hes a choker from the fan's and media and starts believing/questioning himself then it manifests with in him.

It doesn't help when Ralph and Jeff mention his mental issues whenever something happens to him, the demons will just grow, he needs to learn how to block everything out and start believing in himself.

A prime example is Kennys tactics last year how saying he's unbeatable, Tomac entered the championship as if he was already beat by Kenny, as soon as Kenny goes down he gains speed faster than anyone that year, he was never worried about Dungey in speed it was all about Kenny for him since his opinion of Dungey's speed was low he killed Dungey until he questioned if he can actually win the championship and the rest is history.

The boy is smart but he needs to stop questioning himself and start believing.

Kenny on the other hand you can bet that he visualizes success all the time and believes it, We don't even know how that arm feels for him he hasn't even mentioned it but the difference is he doesn't let that arm get in the way of his vision

Yes, I agree with that completely.

sickboy3636 wrote:

It’s always something, and there’s an excuse everytime he pulls off whether it’s bent rotors, sticky masters, faulty pant buckles, bumping his head or other boo boos. The point is it’s a common thread that he’s just quit after other tip overs, set on his bike for 10 seconds without even starting it while the points lead drifted out of reach and everyone from Ralph and Jeff down were scratching their heads. So if I missed soemthing during this race, I’d say you’ve missed the last 3-4 years of watching Eli race. I like Eli, in fact I grew up in CO where’s he’s a local legend so I’ve always pulled for the guy. But there comes a point where it’s not the constant situations and bad luck, it’s you.

I'm not even trying to say it's bad luck or make excuses, it's not like someone else caused him to crash, that was all on his own but your post was basically insinuating that the guy has no will or determination to win. My whole point was if the guy was hurt the guy was hurt, using your logic Dean Wilson should have lined up for that LCQ.

Although based on the field day you seem to be having with this I would argue that your theories can't quite be considered logic.

drt410 wrote:

He definitely has no urgency when he crashes. I agree completely that he either wants to be out front by 30 seconds or in the trailer. Whenever he crashes you can see him throw in the towel right there. If he can keep it on 2 wheels he has the speed to win. If it comes fown to pure grind and determination its not there. All he has is a bruised shoulder. AC had asterisks pop his shoulder back in and ran full speed and jumped onto his bike.

He absolutely could have salvaged a couple points tonight. You win championships on your bad days and Tomac is bad at having bad days. If he loses by 3 points hes gonna kick himself for this. In the McGrath interview he said his 1 regret is pulling off like a diva vs finishing the race at the back of the pack and losing by a couple points to emig in an mx championship because his ego got to him and he didnt wanna ride around at the back of the pack. That interview immediately came to mind tonight same thing. You have to try to finish until you physically or mechanically can not. That didnt happen tonight his ego got to him and he gave up.

Dude, couple excellent points there. RC is always pounding that point home about winning championships on your bad days. That’s what made Dungey so good, the guy didn’t feel the need to push himself to near death to win. But he would slice up a pack like no one I’ve ever seen when he had to. Also McGrath.....I was just watching the interview with him the other day where he was talking about that. Pulling off just cause of pride and it cost him the title. For whatever reason Eli doesn’t get it.

And like you were saying about AC.....or there is a long list of riders who rode through pure hell just to finish. I’ve got a couple shattered collarbones myself, but seeing dudes finish races or come back next week with broken collarbones just makes my skin crawl. But I get it, and I respect the hell out of it. And I’ll note again like I have 10 times. Roczen facing amputation, and to come back inside of a year and nearly podium. Those are the guys I just love watching. I thought Eli would be the next RV, Dungey just based on speed alone, I can say 100% comfortably he never will be solely cause of this. The greats fight through anything, guys like JorgeChavez pull off when they lose their visor or break a nail.

JB 19 wrote:

Dungey had arguably two titles robbed from him in 2011 from "random" issues. Broken chain in supercross and boiling fuel in Texas and a bike that wouldn't start later at Southwick.

And many titles did he win again? the point is it can be considered random because bikes are mechanical. It’s not random when it’s 2-3 times a season.

jorgechavez wrote:

I'm not even trying to say it's bad luck or make excuses, it's not like someone else caused him to crash, that was all on his own but your post was basically insinuating that the guy has no will or determination to win. My whole point was if the guy was hurt the guy was hurt, using your logic Dean Wilson should have lined up for that LCQ.

Although based on the field day you seem to be having with this I would argue that your theories can't quite be considered logic.

Yes Jorge, that’s exactly what I was saying. You’re so intuitive. Esp Deano....that guys nevvver ridden through a knee injury before. Lmao

sickboy3636 wrote:

Yes Jorge, that’s exactly what I was saying. You’re so intuitive. Esp Deano....that guys nevvver ridden through a knee injury before. Lmao

Obviously not as intuitive as you, the ability to know someones pain through a TV screen is a real talent!