Interesting 3-D printing nugget re KTM MotoGP

FreshTopEnd
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Edited Date/Time 6/3/2021 10:37am
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/motorcycles/motogp/the-big-mugello-motogp-surprise-ktms-comeback

Printing frame components for quick R&D to track updates:

“Using a steel frame definitely helps, especially now with 3-D printing. Before you had to source the tubing with the correct wall thickness. Now we can print whatever you want, which makes things even better for us.”
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ocscottie
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5/31/2021 10:02pm
3d Printing has come so far and it is such amazing technology I can only imagine how much it will advance in the next 10 or so years.

Always wanted to buy one of those fairly cheap home units just to play with, I just dont think I have the patience lol
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#434
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5/31/2021 10:15pm
Very cool!! Makes me wonder if they use the 3D-printing for the MXGP-frames too.
Heck, the AMA would never know if they would use such a frame in supercross.
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6/1/2021 12:44am
The Athertons are making their mountain bikes using 3D printing. Instead of mega-expensive molds for full carbon frames that can't be altered without making a new mold, they 3D print the lugs in titanium then bond carbon tubes into them. If they test a frame and it needs tweaking, they can just print new lugs quickly and fairly inexpensively, then go back and try it out.
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The Shop

Springcreek
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6/1/2021 5:56am
Here is a metal printed part that we are cutting off of the build plate with wire EDM

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#434
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If I were HRC, I would want the AMA to cut open Webb‘s Supercross frame, haha
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FWYT
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6/1/2021 7:35am
Fascinating!!!

Man, just a short time ago this sort of thing was just fantasy. Amazing how far it has come.
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philG
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The Athertons are making their mountain bikes using 3D printing. Instead of mega-expensive molds for full carbon frames that can't be altered without making a new...
The Athertons are making their mountain bikes using 3D printing. Instead of mega-expensive molds for full carbon frames that can't be altered without making a new mold, they 3D print the lugs in titanium then bond carbon tubes into them. If they test a frame and it needs tweaking, they can just print new lugs quickly and fairly inexpensively, then go back and try it out.
Work colleague looking at a position there ..
ocscottie
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6/1/2021 9:17am
In F1 they 3D print pistons, that’s some high tech shit! I would love to see the process
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ZOBITO
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Alan Dove wrote:
You can print steel tubing? am I reading that right?
You missed that BMW prototype?
It was rather impressive.


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FreshTopEnd
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6/1/2021 12:35pm
Alan Dove wrote:
You can print steel tubing? am I reading that right?
Yup, and what really struck me was the ability to engineer chassis flex with variable tube thickness through the frame spar itself.
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skeef
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6/1/2021 12:58pm
#434 wrote:
Very cool!! Makes me wonder if they use the 3D-printing for the MXGP-frames too. Heck, the AMA would never know if they would use such a...
Very cool!! Makes me wonder if they use the 3D-printing for the MXGP-frames too.
Heck, the AMA would never know if they would use such a frame in supercross.
Yeah true. Way less important for the factory im sure. Using printed parts to create self steering in the frame sounds insane..
mx_phreek
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6/1/2021 1:03pm
I thought it was just plastic that was 3D printed. That is so cool they can print a frame now. Amazing.
JBecker 72
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6/1/2021 1:24pm
mx_phreek wrote:
I thought it was just plastic that was 3D printed. That is so cool they can print a frame now. Amazing.
They are working on 3D printing new organs using your own tissue as it’s base so you won’t have to wait for someone to die or take anti-rejection meds after. As of 2019 they had already made a heart, but not sure if one has been used in a transplant yet.
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FreshTopEnd
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mx_phreek wrote:
I thought it was just plastic that was 3D printed. That is so cool they can print a frame now. Amazing.
JBecker 72 wrote:
They are working on 3D printing new organs using your own tissue as it’s base so you won’t have to wait for someone to die or...
They are working on 3D printing new organs using your own tissue as it’s base so you won’t have to wait for someone to die or take anti-rejection meds after. As of 2019 they had already made a heart, but not sure if one has been used in a transplant yet.
Still a way off.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/08/how-to-build-an-artificial-heart

It's a terrific article, even if a bit of a gut punch that he framed it with the life and death of his friend transplanted the same year that I was.

“'She did great,' Cohn said. 'Many heart-transplant recipients are dead in ten years.'”

“'Recently, I went to a birthday party for a guy I transplanted thirty years ago,' Frazier said. 'But those are rare, rare, rare. Only about five per cent of transplant recipients make it to thirty years.' The artificial pumps on the market are considered bridge therapies, and heart transplants “destination” therapies; but, if you live long enough, the transplants, too, are merely bridges."

It's got to be incredible now for customizing prosthetics, though.
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6/1/2021 1:50pm
#434 wrote:
If I were HRC, I would want the AMA to cut open Webb‘s Supercross frame, haha
X2
philG
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FWYT wrote:
Fascinating!!!

Man, just a short time ago this sort of thing was just fantasy. Amazing how far it has come.
We were 3D printing Ti Turbo wastegates back in 2003. Back then, just as now , the biggest issue is voids and cooling cracks due to variations in cross section.

A lot of people have been trying for years to get this stuff right , and unless you have the ability to do full 3D XRays too, on every part , you never truly know if the print is good.. that is where the cost is.

Matsura do a great 3D printer/ 5 Axis mill that adds layers then machines them back, which i was involved with proving out a few years ago, the machining allowed the shrinkage issues to be easier to rectify.

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indy_maico
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6/2/2021 9:51am
Pankl is under the same holding company as KTM. Everyone knows by now that Pankl is a big F1 supplier, and MXA can't print a test of a KTM-Husky-Gas-Gas without mentioning the Pankl gearbox.
If you have seen the windscreen that Indycar added last year, you may not know it but the supporting structure of the screen is a halo system similar to what is on F1, GP2, GP3 racing cars. But the Indycar halo is a Pankl-manufactured part that is 3D printed titanium. It is printed in 3 sections, then electron-beam welded together. It's much bulkier and less elegant than the F1 halo because there is no structural area for the rearmost mounting points to the chassis, so it had to be tied into the steel roll hoop and it is much higher than it needs to be at the rear.
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GuyB
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As always, FTE bringing the goods.

I've been playing with some PLA 3D-printed parts. It's really interesting stuff, both on the design side, and the printing itself. Printing/machining metal stuff in a variety of materials? It's amazing what they can do.
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GuyB
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6/2/2021 12:08pm
indy_maico wrote:
Pankl is under the same holding company as KTM. Everyone knows by now that Pankl is a big F1 supplier, and MXA can't print a test...
Pankl is under the same holding company as KTM. Everyone knows by now that Pankl is a big F1 supplier, and MXA can't print a test of a KTM-Husky-Gas-Gas without mentioning the Pankl gearbox.
If you have seen the windscreen that Indycar added last year, you may not know it but the supporting structure of the screen is a halo system similar to what is on F1, GP2, GP3 racing cars. But the Indycar halo is a Pankl-manufactured part that is 3D printed titanium. It is printed in 3 sections, then electron-beam welded together. It's much bulkier and less elegant than the F1 halo because there is no structural area for the rearmost mounting points to the chassis, so it had to be tied into the steel roll hoop and it is much higher than it needs to be at the rear.
Are you still working at the same spot? If so, I'm sure you've stepped up the game a bit since I was there last. Smile
indy_maico
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6/2/2021 3:28pm
indy_maico wrote:
Pankl is under the same holding company as KTM. Everyone knows by now that Pankl is a big F1 supplier, and MXA can't print a test...
Pankl is under the same holding company as KTM. Everyone knows by now that Pankl is a big F1 supplier, and MXA can't print a test of a KTM-Husky-Gas-Gas without mentioning the Pankl gearbox.
If you have seen the windscreen that Indycar added last year, you may not know it but the supporting structure of the screen is a halo system similar to what is on F1, GP2, GP3 racing cars. But the Indycar halo is a Pankl-manufactured part that is 3D printed titanium. It is printed in 3 sections, then electron-beam welded together. It's much bulkier and less elegant than the F1 halo because there is no structural area for the rearmost mounting points to the chassis, so it had to be tied into the steel roll hoop and it is much higher than it needs to be at the rear.
GuyB wrote:
Are you still working at the same spot? If so, I'm sure you've stepped up the game a bit since I was there last. Smile
Hey GuyB....Still there! We have expanded quite a bit since you were here. Next time you're in Indy you'll have to come by for an update!
GuyB
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indy_maico wrote:
Hey GuyB....Still there! We have expanded quite a bit since you were here. Next time you're in Indy you'll have to come by for an update!
Very cool. I remember you'd just started construction on a bunch of new stuff when we were by there.
RMZ290
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6/2/2021 5:45pm
FWYT wrote:
Fascinating!!!

Man, just a short time ago this sort of thing was just fantasy. Amazing how far it has come.
philG wrote:
We were 3D printing Ti Turbo wastegates back in 2003. Back then, just as now , the biggest issue is voids and cooling cracks due to...
We were 3D printing Ti Turbo wastegates back in 2003. Back then, just as now , the biggest issue is voids and cooling cracks due to variations in cross section.

A lot of people have been trying for years to get this stuff right , and unless you have the ability to do full 3D XRays too, on every part , you never truly know if the print is good.. that is where the cost is.

Matsura do a great 3D printer/ 5 Axis mill that adds layers then machines them back, which i was involved with proving out a few years ago, the machining allowed the shrinkage issues to be easier to rectify.

Those issues are no more with modern powder bed fusion machines and well designed build parameters. Look at how many AM parts are on the new GE commercial engines....
1
6/2/2021 5:49pm Edited Date/Time 6/2/2021 5:50pm
mx_phreek wrote:
I thought it was just plastic that was 3D printed. That is so cool they can print a frame now. Amazing.
JBecker 72 wrote:
They are working on 3D printing new organs using your own tissue as it’s base so you won’t have to wait for someone to die or...
They are working on 3D printing new organs using your own tissue as it’s base so you won’t have to wait for someone to die or take anti-rejection meds after. As of 2019 they had already made a heart, but not sure if one has been used in a transplant yet.
Still a way off. [url=https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/08/how-to-build-an-artificial-heart]https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/08/how-to-build-an-artificial-heart[/url] It's a terrific article, even if a bit of a gut punch that he framed it with the life and death...
Still a way off.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/03/08/how-to-build-an-artificial-heart

It's a terrific article, even if a bit of a gut punch that he framed it with the life and death of his friend transplanted the same year that I was.

“'She did great,' Cohn said. 'Many heart-transplant recipients are dead in ten years.'”

“'Recently, I went to a birthday party for a guy I transplanted thirty years ago,' Frazier said. 'But those are rare, rare, rare. Only about five per cent of transplant recipients make it to thirty years.' The artificial pumps on the market are considered bridge therapies, and heart transplants “destination” therapies; but, if you live long enough, the transplants, too, are merely bridges."

It's got to be incredible now for customizing prosthetics, though.
Ah I get it! Fresh Top End - v clever. Good on ya fella!

Cheers
Simon

EDIT - I'm probably about 10 years late here.
Myke
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6/2/2021 6:28pm
The Athertons are making their mountain bikes using 3D printing. Instead of mega-expensive molds for full carbon frames that can't be altered without making a new...
The Athertons are making their mountain bikes using 3D printing. Instead of mega-expensive molds for full carbon frames that can't be altered without making a new mold, they 3D print the lugs in titanium then bond carbon tubes into them. If they test a frame and it needs tweaking, they can just print new lugs quickly and fairly inexpensively, then go back and try it out.
Interesting bikes. https://www.athertonbikes.com/

Kinda reminds me of a modern one of these:


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DAG
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6/3/2021 12:44am
Or how about an even more modern one of these that were built in the 30's. Monark Silver Kings used gusset construction. Most got melted for the aluminum drive.
indy_maico
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6/3/2021 5:04am
indy_maico wrote:
Hey GuyB....Still there! We have expanded quite a bit since you were here. Next time you're in Indy you'll have to come by for an update!
GuyB wrote:
Very cool. I remember you'd just started construction on a bunch of new stuff when we were by there.
Were you here before the simulator was up and running?



Crossup
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At my biz, we 3-D print road bike frames to actual size and can use the model to check component fit and check clearances. Amazing stuff.
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GuyB
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6/3/2021 7:22am
indy_maico wrote:
Were you here before the simulator was up and running?
Were you here before the simulator was up and running?



Whoa! Now that’s a sim! For sure it wasn’t there.

When I visited, there was a lot of construction going on in the back to help boost manufacturing capacity.
GuyB
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Ah I get it! Fresh Top End - v clever. Good on ya fella!

Cheers
Simon

EDIT - I'm probably about 10 years late here.
Yep, definitely one of the better usernames.

Between here and Motodrive, I’m guessing it’s probably closer to 20 years?

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