Insight into the Tensions Between US Racing / Teams and World Supercross

ATKpilot99
Posts
9819
Joined
4/13/2010
Location
Lake Geneva, WI US
9/21/2022 6:12am
Motofinne wrote:
I admire peoples enthusiastic desire to see a series fail that for the first time ever in our sport wants to work with team owners and...
I admire peoples enthusiastic desire to see a series fail that for the first time ever in our sport wants to work with team owners and riders long term with moneymaking and value creating as a central point in the business model.

DonM wrote:
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really...
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really hope they succeed in the fall off season where it belongs.
It's like beating your head against a wall trying to explain this to people.
2
1
Gungadin
Posts
235
Joined
7/8/2022
Location
Sarasota, FL US
9/21/2022 7:04am Edited Date/Time 9/21/2022 7:05am
DonM wrote:
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really...
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really hope they succeed in the fall off season where it belongs.
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal.

In other words you are tainting them with low expectation and hoping they fail- indeed working at it with your critical and derisive commentary.
8
DonM
Posts
6755
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
9/21/2022 7:17am
You're wrong...They will have a greater chance of success as a fall off season series than they will trying to compete with other series in the world...It's tough enough to have to compete with other sports and your thinking it's advantageous to compete within in the sport and diminish other series is shortsighted on your part...
2
1
USA
Posts
1987
Joined
9/4/2016
Location
Richmond, TX US
Fantasy
507th
9/21/2022 7:19am
DonM wrote:
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really...
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really hope they succeed in the fall off season where it belongs.
Gungadin wrote:
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal...
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal.

In other words you are tainting them with low expectation and hoping they fail- indeed working at it with your critical and derisive commentary.
Be diminished to a secondary series? Woohoo

The series has to prove itself first, much less come right in and be the premier series! How about WSX brood their own talent instead of just trying to steal from the US teams that don't want to be involved?

Hilarious that you would even insinuate that this 2 round series is somehow an equal to the 50-year history of supercross racing in USA.
5
2

The Shop

Gungadin
Posts
235
Joined
7/8/2022
Location
Sarasota, FL US
9/21/2022 7:59am
DonM wrote:
You're wrong...They will have a greater chance of success as a fall off season series than they will trying to compete with other series in the...
You're wrong...They will have a greater chance of success as a fall off season series than they will trying to compete with other series in the world...It's tough enough to have to compete with other sports and your thinking it's advantageous to compete within in the sport and diminish other series is shortsighted on your part...
I've said consistently that a rising tide will float all boats.

Also, critically, it is up to the riders to decide who with and where they ply their trade.

WSX is not in direct domestic competition.

The AMA/Feld SX series is big enough and ugly enough to look after itself
7
GrapeApe
Posts
6988
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
Fantasy
551st
9/21/2022 8:16am
I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but will WSX take over the regular Australian SX series or are they going to run them both in tandem? I notice the Melbourne round of WSX is also the opening round for the Australian SX series.
lumpy790
Posts
9280
Joined
9/18/2007
Location
York, SC US
9/21/2022 8:20am
DonM wrote:
You're wrong...They will have a greater chance of success as a fall off season series than they will trying to compete with other series in the...
You're wrong...They will have a greater chance of success as a fall off season series than they will trying to compete with other series in the world...It's tough enough to have to compete with other sports and your thinking it's advantageous to compete within in the sport and diminish other series is shortsighted on your part...
IF they make the final round here in the USA everyone would be cheering.

Some of us are old enough to remember TransUSA series when they came here.
2
TeamGreen
Posts
29083
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
9/21/2022 8:35am
DonM wrote:
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really...
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really hope they succeed in the fall off season where it belongs.
Gungadin wrote:
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal...
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal.

In other words you are tainting them with low expectation and hoping they fail- indeed working at it with your critical and derisive commentary.
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously.

MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an international flair.

All the while, we've acknowledged factual things...not "derisive commentary"...things like:

The "National/Regional Teams" ain't gonna foot the bill.
The OEM's ARE NOT interested in messing top their current operational model.
Too many of us are 'suspect' of the intentions to cut into, ruin or CAUSE the demise of OUTDOOR MOTOCROSS.
Too many of us SURE AS HELL DO NOT TRUST THE FIM.
Too many of us "have been here, before".
We've heard and seen a very "non-cooperative" attitude from the new promoters.
(towards the current promoters of our sport; hence, trying to kill Motocross based on their "proposed" schedule)
We're seeing VERY knowledgeable people like Eric Peronnard back away from this madness.
(He's VERY much about ALL THINGS Moto-Racing and one of our sports true Guardians)
We're witnessing the current promises being "un-met" at a rate that's not impressive.

Yet, still, we wait and anticipate with a bit of hope.

All the while, a couple of you seem to need to point your fingers and make accusations as the "older and wiser" among us say,"Huh? Oh, well...we'll see."

No worries.
You do your thing.
We'll do ours.

I'll say THE OBVIOUS and THE PREVIOUSLY STATED...AGAIN...

It would be AWESOME if Adam and his group re-assessed this whole program and pushed it into The Fall/Winter WHERE IT BELONGS...
After AMA MX Nationals.
After MXGP.
AFTER MXoN.

October
November
December

There's OVER 12 weeks/weekends for their Race Calendar in that time period.
(Starting AFTER MXON. Not including Christmas. Not including New Years.)

They could EASILY have 7, 8, 9...TEN events in that time period and STILL get PLENTY of racers interested in their pay outs and their title.

And, yes, they'll have to "Compete with the SuperMotocross Series"...but, that's how business goes.
6
1
DonM
Posts
6755
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
9/21/2022 8:44am
DonM wrote:
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really...
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really hope they succeed in the fall off season where it belongs.
Gungadin wrote:
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal...
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal.

In other words you are tainting them with low expectation and hoping they fail- indeed working at it with your critical and derisive commentary.
TeamGreen wrote:
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously. MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an...
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously.

MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an international flair.

All the while, we've acknowledged factual things...not "derisive commentary"...things like:

The "National/Regional Teams" ain't gonna foot the bill.
The OEM's ARE NOT interested in messing top their current operational model.
Too many of us are 'suspect' of the intentions to cut into, ruin or CAUSE the demise of OUTDOOR MOTOCROSS.
Too many of us SURE AS HELL DO NOT TRUST THE FIM.
Too many of us "have been here, before".
We've heard and seen a very "non-cooperative" attitude from the new promoters.
(towards the current promoters of our sport; hence, trying to kill Motocross based on their "proposed" schedule)
We're seeing VERY knowledgeable people like Eric Peronnard back away from this madness.
(He's VERY much about ALL THINGS Moto-Racing and one of our sports true Guardians)
We're witnessing the current promises being "un-met" at a rate that's not impressive.

Yet, still, we wait and anticipate with a bit of hope.

All the while, a couple of you seem to need to point your fingers and make accusations as the "older and wiser" among us say,"Huh? Oh, well...we'll see."

No worries.
You do your thing.
We'll do ours.

I'll say THE OBVIOUS and THE PREVIOUSLY STATED...AGAIN...

It would be AWESOME if Adam and his group re-assessed this whole program and pushed it into The Fall/Winter WHERE IT BELONGS...
After AMA MX Nationals.
After MXGP.
AFTER MXoN.

October
November
December

There's OVER 12 weeks/weekends for their Race Calendar in that time period.
(Starting AFTER MXON. Not including Christmas. Not including New Years.)

They could EASILY have 7, 8, 9...TEN events in that time period and STILL get PLENTY of racers interested in their pay outs and their title.

And, yes, they'll have to "Compete with the SuperMotocross Series"...but, that's how business goes.
Exactly!....almost time for a little Lebowski on this subject...
1
1
DonM
Posts
6755
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
9/21/2022 8:45am Edited Date/Time 9/21/2022 8:58am
DonM wrote:
You're wrong...They will have a greater chance of success as a fall off season series than they will trying to compete with other series in the...
You're wrong...They will have a greater chance of success as a fall off season series than they will trying to compete with other series in the world...It's tough enough to have to compete with other sports and your thinking it's advantageous to compete within in the sport and diminish other series is shortsighted on your part...
lumpy790 wrote:
IF they make the final round here in the USA everyone would be cheering. Some of us are old enough to remember TransUSA series when they...
IF they make the final round here in the USA everyone would be cheering.

Some of us are old enough to remember TransUSA series when they came here.
And some of us are old enough to remember the Trans AMA and Inter AM series....In fact I'm looking forward to re-visiting the track where I saw my first Trans-AMA race at this weekend for more international racing...
1
1
TeamGreen
Posts
29083
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
9/21/2022 8:49am
Gungadin wrote:
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal...
You and old mate ATKpilot99 are saying in various way you would like WSX to be diminished, and secondary to your preferred series, not an equal.

In other words you are tainting them with low expectation and hoping they fail- indeed working at it with your critical and derisive commentary.
TeamGreen wrote:
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously. MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an...
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously.

MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an international flair.

All the while, we've acknowledged factual things...not "derisive commentary"...things like:

The "National/Regional Teams" ain't gonna foot the bill.
The OEM's ARE NOT interested in messing top their current operational model.
Too many of us are 'suspect' of the intentions to cut into, ruin or CAUSE the demise of OUTDOOR MOTOCROSS.
Too many of us SURE AS HELL DO NOT TRUST THE FIM.
Too many of us "have been here, before".
We've heard and seen a very "non-cooperative" attitude from the new promoters.
(towards the current promoters of our sport; hence, trying to kill Motocross based on their "proposed" schedule)
We're seeing VERY knowledgeable people like Eric Peronnard back away from this madness.
(He's VERY much about ALL THINGS Moto-Racing and one of our sports true Guardians)
We're witnessing the current promises being "un-met" at a rate that's not impressive.

Yet, still, we wait and anticipate with a bit of hope.

All the while, a couple of you seem to need to point your fingers and make accusations as the "older and wiser" among us say,"Huh? Oh, well...we'll see."

No worries.
You do your thing.
We'll do ours.

I'll say THE OBVIOUS and THE PREVIOUSLY STATED...AGAIN...

It would be AWESOME if Adam and his group re-assessed this whole program and pushed it into The Fall/Winter WHERE IT BELONGS...
After AMA MX Nationals.
After MXGP.
AFTER MXoN.

October
November
December

There's OVER 12 weeks/weekends for their Race Calendar in that time period.
(Starting AFTER MXON. Not including Christmas. Not including New Years.)

They could EASILY have 7, 8, 9...TEN events in that time period and STILL get PLENTY of racers interested in their pay outs and their title.

And, yes, they'll have to "Compete with the SuperMotocross Series"...but, that's how business goes.
DonM wrote:
Exactly!....almost time for a little Lebowski on this subject...
Hey, that's just like...your opinion, man. Grinning
1
DonM
Posts
6755
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
9/21/2022 8:57am
TeamGreen wrote:
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously. MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an...
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously.

MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an international flair.

All the while, we've acknowledged factual things...not "derisive commentary"...things like:

The "National/Regional Teams" ain't gonna foot the bill.
The OEM's ARE NOT interested in messing top their current operational model.
Too many of us are 'suspect' of the intentions to cut into, ruin or CAUSE the demise of OUTDOOR MOTOCROSS.
Too many of us SURE AS HELL DO NOT TRUST THE FIM.
Too many of us "have been here, before".
We've heard and seen a very "non-cooperative" attitude from the new promoters.
(towards the current promoters of our sport; hence, trying to kill Motocross based on their "proposed" schedule)
We're seeing VERY knowledgeable people like Eric Peronnard back away from this madness.
(He's VERY much about ALL THINGS Moto-Racing and one of our sports true Guardians)
We're witnessing the current promises being "un-met" at a rate that's not impressive.

Yet, still, we wait and anticipate with a bit of hope.

All the while, a couple of you seem to need to point your fingers and make accusations as the "older and wiser" among us say,"Huh? Oh, well...we'll see."

No worries.
You do your thing.
We'll do ours.

I'll say THE OBVIOUS and THE PREVIOUSLY STATED...AGAIN...

It would be AWESOME if Adam and his group re-assessed this whole program and pushed it into The Fall/Winter WHERE IT BELONGS...
After AMA MX Nationals.
After MXGP.
AFTER MXoN.

October
November
December

There's OVER 12 weeks/weekends for their Race Calendar in that time period.
(Starting AFTER MXON. Not including Christmas. Not including New Years.)

They could EASILY have 7, 8, 9...TEN events in that time period and STILL get PLENTY of racers interested in their pay outs and their title.

And, yes, they'll have to "Compete with the SuperMotocross Series"...but, that's how business goes.
DonM wrote:
Exactly!....almost time for a little Lebowski on this subject...
TeamGreen wrote:
Hey, that's just like...your opinion, man. Grinning
LaughingLaughing When all common sense fails....."The Dude abides"
1
KONG
Posts
783
Joined
9/2/2021
Location
FR
9/21/2022 9:21am
DonM wrote:
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really...
It's not about wanting it to fail....but how is it any different to wanting it to succeed at the cost of another race series. I really hope they succeed in the fall off season where it belongs.
Except they absolutely don't feel the off season is where they belong.
That's not their business model AT ALL.
2
Gungadin
Posts
235
Joined
7/8/2022
Location
Sarasota, FL US
9/21/2022 9:32am Edited Date/Time 9/21/2022 9:34am
TeamGreen wrote:
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously. MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an...
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously.

MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an international flair.

All the while, we've acknowledged factual things...not "derisive commentary"...things like:

The "National/Regional Teams" ain't gonna foot the bill.
The OEM's ARE NOT interested in messing top their current operational model.
Too many of us are 'suspect' of the intentions to cut into, ruin or CAUSE the demise of OUTDOOR MOTOCROSS.
Too many of us SURE AS HELL DO NOT TRUST THE FIM.
Too many of us "have been here, before".
We've heard and seen a very "non-cooperative" attitude from the new promoters.
(towards the current promoters of our sport; hence, trying to kill Motocross based on their "proposed" schedule)
We're seeing VERY knowledgeable people like Eric Peronnard back away from this madness.
(He's VERY much about ALL THINGS Moto-Racing and one of our sports true Guardians)
We're witnessing the current promises being "un-met" at a rate that's not impressive.

Yet, still, we wait and anticipate with a bit of hope.

All the while, a couple of you seem to need to point your fingers and make accusations as the "older and wiser" among us say,"Huh? Oh, well...we'll see."

No worries.
You do your thing.
We'll do ours.

I'll say THE OBVIOUS and THE PREVIOUSLY STATED...AGAIN...

It would be AWESOME if Adam and his group re-assessed this whole program and pushed it into The Fall/Winter WHERE IT BELONGS...
After AMA MX Nationals.
After MXGP.
AFTER MXoN.

October
November
December

There's OVER 12 weeks/weekends for their Race Calendar in that time period.
(Starting AFTER MXON. Not including Christmas. Not including New Years.)

They could EASILY have 7, 8, 9...TEN events in that time period and STILL get PLENTY of racers interested in their pay outs and their title.

And, yes, they'll have to "Compete with the SuperMotocross Series"...but, that's how business goes.
You are angry, parochial and seriously concerned is what I get from that. All understandable

I am also concerned about outdoors but for different reasons- those to do with it's promotion, payment structure venues and particularly broadcasting. Most of the WSX pilot series recruits didn't run the outdoors. The two biggest names in MXSX in the States #3 and #94 did as their probable finales so absent anyway in 2023 and now signed WSX.

The people that matter and ultimately make the key decisions are the riders. I have yet to hear a rider bag the idea of an employment opportunity that rivals or is better than what exists.

Yes, the two series are going head to head in some ways; look at is as an exciting a battle between your 2 favourite riders.




6
RandomUserName
Posts
1044
Joined
9/5/2021
Location
San Antonio, TX US
Fantasy
2773rd
9/21/2022 9:40am
my opin nobody asked for:

I wish that MX and SX would take the Jan-Aug timeframe and rotate events. one weekend SX. Then MX the next. Riders would have their SX bike and their MX bike. If the intention is to crown a SuperMotoCross Champ....intertwining the disciplies would make so much sense, would make it seem seemless to the fans and would add so much variety to the series as you have SX fans and MX fans and it would drive viewership to see how your rider did after a bad SX weekend.

just a thought.

As for WSX...yawn.
6
early
Posts
8280
Joined
2/13/2013
Location
University Heights, OH US
Fantasy
2231st
9/21/2022 10:34am
It's somewhat surprising that the FIM is allowing the WSX and MXGP to be planned to run concurrently in 2023, nevermind the conflict with the US series.
1
1
DonM
Posts
6755
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
9/21/2022 10:55am
TeamGreen wrote:
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously. MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an...
You're putting words in someone-else's mouth and your doing it dis-honestly &/or dis-ingeniously.

MANY of us would love to see this series grow and have an international flair.

All the while, we've acknowledged factual things...not "derisive commentary"...things like:

The "National/Regional Teams" ain't gonna foot the bill.
The OEM's ARE NOT interested in messing top their current operational model.
Too many of us are 'suspect' of the intentions to cut into, ruin or CAUSE the demise of OUTDOOR MOTOCROSS.
Too many of us SURE AS HELL DO NOT TRUST THE FIM.
Too many of us "have been here, before".
We've heard and seen a very "non-cooperative" attitude from the new promoters.
(towards the current promoters of our sport; hence, trying to kill Motocross based on their "proposed" schedule)
We're seeing VERY knowledgeable people like Eric Peronnard back away from this madness.
(He's VERY much about ALL THINGS Moto-Racing and one of our sports true Guardians)
We're witnessing the current promises being "un-met" at a rate that's not impressive.

Yet, still, we wait and anticipate with a bit of hope.

All the while, a couple of you seem to need to point your fingers and make accusations as the "older and wiser" among us say,"Huh? Oh, well...we'll see."

No worries.
You do your thing.
We'll do ours.

I'll say THE OBVIOUS and THE PREVIOUSLY STATED...AGAIN...

It would be AWESOME if Adam and his group re-assessed this whole program and pushed it into The Fall/Winter WHERE IT BELONGS...
After AMA MX Nationals.
After MXGP.
AFTER MXoN.

October
November
December

There's OVER 12 weeks/weekends for their Race Calendar in that time period.
(Starting AFTER MXON. Not including Christmas. Not including New Years.)

They could EASILY have 7, 8, 9...TEN events in that time period and STILL get PLENTY of racers interested in their pay outs and their title.

And, yes, they'll have to "Compete with the SuperMotocross Series"...but, that's how business goes.
Gungadin wrote:
You are angry, parochial and seriously concerned is what I get from that. All understandable I am also concerned about outdoors but for different reasons- those...
You are angry, parochial and seriously concerned is what I get from that. All understandable

I am also concerned about outdoors but for different reasons- those to do with it's promotion, payment structure venues and particularly broadcasting. Most of the WSX pilot series recruits didn't run the outdoors. The two biggest names in MXSX in the States #3 and #94 did as their probable finales so absent anyway in 2023 and now signed WSX.

The people that matter and ultimately make the key decisions are the riders. I have yet to hear a rider bag the idea of an employment opportunity that rivals or is better than what exists.

Yes, the two series are going head to head in some ways; look at is as an exciting a battle between your 2 favourite riders.




He's not angry he's right....Keep hanging your hat on the Eli ($250k for one race) and Ken ($250K per race) as your key WSX signees...Don't want to burst your bubble but just in case you didn't realize they did it for the money...Eli is also racing Paris for the single day payout for just showing up....you won't see Eli next year in WSX and more than likely you won't see Ken if he gets a factory ride in the US...Again I wish them success but believe the only way they will have any will be as a fall series....
5
1

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