Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL
US
Edited Date/Time
1/27/2012 7:31pm
...older 125 & 250 2 strokes. The decline of the industry as a whole reflects the shrinking market.
Yes, there will be the wealthy few buying new 4 strokes and they will win races.
But the roots of the sport will be the weekend guys racing and rebuilding their 2 strokes.
The industry is too short sighted to be proactive in responding to this consumer shift.
We'll go back to relatively inexpensive racing while the few race the latest 4 strokes with fuel injection and traction control.
But the guys having the most fun will be those who picked up an old 2 stroke that they can ride for a fraction of the cost.
A few of those brave soles will choose to race while the majority will choose to "practice" or ride on private land.
My industry is reacting to a shrinking market and is providing products to maintain market share. From a MX perspective, it seems only KTM is willing to support the direction of the sport for the masses rather than only top level pro support.
4 strokes will be for the wealthy while used 2 strokes will support the weekend warriors either on the track or on private land.
Yes, there will be the wealthy few buying new 4 strokes and they will win races.
But the roots of the sport will be the weekend guys racing and rebuilding their 2 strokes.
The industry is too short sighted to be proactive in responding to this consumer shift.
We'll go back to relatively inexpensive racing while the few race the latest 4 strokes with fuel injection and traction control.
But the guys having the most fun will be those who picked up an old 2 stroke that they can ride for a fraction of the cost.
A few of those brave soles will choose to race while the majority will choose to "practice" or ride on private land.
My industry is reacting to a shrinking market and is providing products to maintain market share. From a MX perspective, it seems only KTM is willing to support the direction of the sport for the masses rather than only top level pro support.
4 strokes will be for the wealthy while used 2 strokes will support the weekend warriors either on the track or on private land.
1) safety equipment - better helmets and spinal protection
2) Two strokes that perform like an early 2000 Japanese bike and are reasonably reliable. If somehow they can maintain a $5K price point, I think they would really take off!
If both of these items could be accomplished (meaning a safer and more cost effective sport) we could really start to grow the amateur and local scene again!
I want to get back into riding on the dirt but until I find that 2005 - 2007 KX250... Im holding out!
The Shop
I know our industry is SUPPOSEDLY declining and tracks are closing, However in the ten years I have been in the industry here in So. Cal. I have never seen so many tracks with-in a short distance. Many of them open 5-7 days a week and all of them very crowded every weekend. Also record amounts of race entries at races like World Vet, Day in The Dirt, and World minis. And do you really think the investers of the new Elsinore mx park are just throwing over a half million dollars into the place without doing their reserch??
Im so tired of hearing how expensive 4 strokes are. Im sure air cooled, twin shock, drum brakes are less expensive too. I love my 4 stroke. Its like having a single cylinder Indy car motor. I also think a 4 stroke sounds BAD ASS and not like a chain saw.
I can understand your So Cal market, but that is not enough to support the industry. The benefits you receive from being local to the industry are not replicated throughout the country. Unless the OEMs are only concerned about CA, then you haven't seen the true impact of the climbing costs. I travel extensively and it is my passion to check out the local MX scene and I can tell you that CA must be the exception.
I thought yours was going to be ".......a row of coin-operated power outlets for recharging your e-mxer."
H
As they start selling more and more 2 strokes, the other oems and promoters will be following too.
But, when I see gear that costs $265 for a set, this suggets they are able to get these prices...Just like $9K bikes. If there were no buyers, the market wouldn't support these price points. Fundamental stuff, son.
You must be from a diffent school than I or most financial groups. For you to believe the market is not shrinking is akin to placing your head in the sand.
Where does an OEM plan to gain market share in a market that has declined by over 50%?
Market is the total sales of a given product. What was the number of untis sold in 1980 vs 2011?
If the number of units sold is less then you have a shrinking market which should not be compared to market share.
Market share illustrates units sold vs the total number of units. Thus, who is gaining in market share in a shrinking market? The answer is KTM. They will continue to capitalize on this shrinking market by producing products that gains share. The Asian OEMs are not doing this.
Matthes...where art tho??
People aren't anti 4-stroke...they are anti-RAPE. If 4-strokes were more economical to own I wouldnt shed a tear over 2-strokes because they'd make the sport better and more available to people.
America is @ 30% unemployment..who the fuck can afford to drop 10K on a bike thats just going to get trashed in the dirt??
The MFG's need to figure out how to make the 4-strokes have the longevity of streetbikes or lower costs significantly to maintain them.
I've seen f4i's with a ton of track miles on them keep tickng and ticking..mean while a 250F is a $8000 time bomb.
Pit Row
Show me marketshare numbers then we can talk. The American market is not indicative of emerging markets oh wise one. In fact, just to show you how off-balance you are, if your company was smart enough to understand basic economics, they'd figure out that America isn't the best place to be placing their bets in the shorterm, and would have adjusted their product mix to support selling in growth markets. Yes my friend, growth markets. I've seen the data mind you, so I'm basing my comments on facts, not rhetoric.
What you have failed miserably to comprehend, using your one-dimension train of thought, is there ARE growth plays outside the US and this is why KTM is now primarily owned by an Indian company - so they can meet the growth in EMEA. America will lag until credit loosens again. Are you gonna tell me that automotive companies should stop selling cars and replace their product mix with mopeds next? BTW: We are in an economic trough. Look it up. What does this tell you? Demand for luxury items will still exist I hate to break it to you, but to tell me that America is in a decline, tells me nothing about the key drivers. So if I were a betting man, I should be putting all my money into 2 stroke technology? LOL. And total sales for KTM, while they have seen increased sales, is still very small looking at the TAM. Geez dude.
Lastly, speaking of price elasticity of demand, less units are sold as price goes up and the inverse is also true. But to add credibility to the story, unemployment in the early 80's was averaging roughly 7%, then rose a few years later. We are at 9+ and a kid can't get a loan to finance a bike for anything. So that means we should all buy 2 strokes?
One last thought for your pipe tonight. Had credit not been so crimped, there would be more bikes sold as most don't have cash to buy them - regardless if it's 1980 or 2011. Credit makes markets work. Free the lending standards, and watch the YoY growth story play out. If you really think the market for bikes is eroding, it's not due to demand, rather, tight credit. Much different perspective than your doom story that you want to believe. You clearly don't understand global markets.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales…
I ride a 450 and like it a lot. I want a second bike , a 250 2 stroke.
I would think a few years ago , the 2 stroke movement was a joke to a lot of people.....but now , not so much. The crowd for wanting 2 strokes is getting bigger by the day. I see them growing at the local tracks as well.
Keep on , keepin' on!
That is all.
Orange..... for you
2009 - 2010 Motorcycle Sales Totals
2009 Totals 2010 Totals Unit Change % Change
Dual Sport 27,210 23,531 -3,679 -13.5%
Off Road 105,524 80,962 -24,562 -23.3%
2008 - 2009 Motorcycle Sales Totals
2008 Totals 2009 Totals Unit Change % Change
Dual Sport 45,250 27,210 -18,993 -39.9%
Off Road 146,779 105,524 -41,676 -28.1%
The credit crunch supports my position. Who can afford a 9-10K bike? I'm guess you can but the can'ts out number the cans...
2012 KTM 250sx - msrp $6899.00
2012 Yamaha YZ 250 - msrp $7150.00
2012 Yamaha YZ 250F - msrp $7290.00
2012 Suzuki RMZ 250 - msrp $7399.00
New bikes aren't cheap.....2 stroke or 4 stroke .....period.
Before you guys all jump on the "those 4 stroke pigs cost a fortune to maintain" crap let me say this.
My son has ridden a 2007 RMZ 250F for the last 2 years, we have spent maybe $800-900 on maintenance including clutch replacement, tires and valve adjustment.
The 2007 YZ 125 he rode for one year before......almost $1900....that bike blew up if the wind was to strong.
He DNF'd more motos on that YZ in one year than the previous 4 years of racing.
My point is some bikes run great and some are dogs....no matter if they are 2 or 4 stroke.
As to original point of this thread;
All the used 2 strokes in the world circulating the tracks of the world make no difference to the marketing of new bikes.
When someone can no longer collect benefits they don't get counted towards the total unemployment rate.
The only thing emerging in America is the fact that if things dont pick up in 5 years we will be a 3rd world country.
paying jobs are NOT coming back either..
Reality is something alot of people don't want to accept...AMA MX will be close to the size of Pro ATV racing if things dont start shaping up.
Post a reply to: In a few years, most MX tracks will have...