If the public demand was high enough, could it happen ?

agn5009
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agn5009 4/2/2018 4:08pm
4/2/2018 4:08pm
philG wrote:
The top 6 riders in the world race MXGP, its the world championship, not a National one.
early wrote:
Who are your top 6?
philG wrote:
Cairoli, Herlings, Gajser, Febvre, Paulin, Van Horebeek.
You really think Gajser, Febvre and Van Horebeek can beat tomac, musquin and Anderson on a consistent basis? Lol that's funny.

Herlings, Cairoli, Tomac, Musquin and Anderson. Period.
agn5009
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agn5009 4/2/2018 4:16pm
4/2/2018 4:16pm
lostboy819 wrote:
So Roczen and Musquin both told you that is why they came to the US so they would not have to try to beat Cairoli :woohoo...
So Roczen and Musquin both told you that is why they came to the US so they would not have to try to beat Cairoli WoohooWoohooWoohoo That's the first time I have ever heard that excuse.
philG wrote:
They didnt need to tell me anything , both of them went to the US , instead of MX1 . So they made a career choice...
They didnt need to tell me anything , both of them went to the US , instead of MX1 . So they made a career choice, that going to the US was what they wanted to do, rather than stay and race MX1 . Thats a statement of fact , not opinion.

Our rules here dont allow career 250 riders, or multiple defenses, although with the threat of Herlings doing the same they did alter that .

Its not an excuse. Its what happened.
They came to the US because it was WAY more competitive and lucrative than the GP's at the time. The GP's had Cairoli, Paulin and Desalle as world class athletes. The US had Villopoto, Dungey, Stewart, Reed, Canard and a few I'm sure I'm forgetting. The US had the better series back when Musquin and Roczen came over, period. If you argue that then you simply have zero common sense and zero credibility. (we all already know you have neither.)

You can argue the GP's are more competitive now. I do believe the GP's has the two best riders in the entire world and I also believe they have much more depth right now. Back when Reed was still riding great, Stewart was still around and the two Ryan's weren't retired? Not a chance in hell the GP's could match up.
TheOriginalPancakee 4/2/2018 4:20pm
4/2/2018 4:20pm
lostboy819 wrote:
After watching some of the MXGPs back when RV gave it a try and seeing the awful tracks in terrible locations why would any top rider...
After watching some of the MXGPs back when RV gave it a try and seeing the awful tracks in terrible locations why would any top rider leave the USA to ride the MXGPs ? I could see riders with no other option doing it but there is a reason top riders like Kroc, Reed, Musquin etc come to the USA to race the SX and Nationals. The GPs have some great riders but the series is still bush league at times even though they do have some awesome tracks.

And no,most people on here DO NOT acknowledge that MXGP is the pinnacle of motocross racing, not even close
Even herlings talks about how bad the tracks are over seas. I remember him talking a lot about Ironman and how that’s a real track
philG
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philG 4/2/2018 5:00pm
4/2/2018 5:00pm
agn5009 wrote:
They came to the US because it was WAY more competitive and lucrative than the GP's at the time. The GP's had Cairoli, Paulin and Desalle...
They came to the US because it was WAY more competitive and lucrative than the GP's at the time. The GP's had Cairoli, Paulin and Desalle as world class athletes. The US had Villopoto, Dungey, Stewart, Reed, Canard and a few I'm sure I'm forgetting. The US had the better series back when Musquin and Roczen came over, period. If you argue that then you simply have zero common sense and zero credibility. (we all already know you have neither.)

You can argue the GP's are more competitive now. I do believe the GP's has the two best riders in the entire world and I also believe they have much more depth right now. Back when Reed was still riding great, Stewart was still around and the two Ryan's weren't retired? Not a chance in hell the GP's could match up.
Musquin came because the rules said he had to go 450 ,and he didnt want to, Roczen was always going to come , because he said he always would.

I doubt either of them would have been paid more to ride regional SX , than they would have to go 450 on a factory team.

And neither of them would have ridden against those guys on a 250, its a shame that RV & Dungey both gave up their titles instead of making someone win them, but that , coupled with Stewart going AWOL and Canard being , well Canard, by the time they got to 450 , it wasnt the class they came to win.

I could agree with you , but whats the point of us both being wrong?

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mxb2
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mxb2 4/2/2018 5:08pm
4/2/2018 5:08pm
lostboy819 wrote:
After watching some of the MXGPs back when RV gave it a try and seeing the awful tracks in terrible locations why would any top rider...
After watching some of the MXGPs back when RV gave it a try and seeing the awful tracks in terrible locations why would any top rider leave the USA to ride the MXGPs ? I could see riders with no other option doing it but there is a reason top riders like Kroc, Reed, Musquin etc come to the USA to race the SX and Nationals. The GPs have some great riders but the series is still bush league at times even though they do have some awesome tracks.

And no,most people on here DO NOT acknowledge that MXGP is the pinnacle of motocross racing, not even close
TheOriginalPancakee wrote:
Even herlings talks about how bad the tracks are over seas. I remember him talking a lot about Ironman and how that’s a real track
I was there, herlings looked great.
surfer22
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surfer22 4/2/2018 5:19pm
4/2/2018 5:19pm
agn5009 wrote:
They came to the US because it was WAY more competitive and lucrative than the GP's at the time. The GP's had Cairoli, Paulin and Desalle...
They came to the US because it was WAY more competitive and lucrative than the GP's at the time. The GP's had Cairoli, Paulin and Desalle as world class athletes. The US had Villopoto, Dungey, Stewart, Reed, Canard and a few I'm sure I'm forgetting. The US had the better series back when Musquin and Roczen came over, period. If you argue that then you simply have zero common sense and zero credibility. (we all already know you have neither.)

You can argue the GP's are more competitive now. I do believe the GP's has the two best riders in the entire world and I also believe they have much more depth right now. Back when Reed was still riding great, Stewart was still around and the two Ryan's weren't retired? Not a chance in hell the GP's could match up.
philG wrote:
Musquin came because the rules said he had to go 450 ,and he didnt want to, Roczen was always going to come , because he said...
Musquin came because the rules said he had to go 450 ,and he didnt want to, Roczen was always going to come , because he said he always would.

I doubt either of them would have been paid more to ride regional SX , than they would have to go 450 on a factory team.

And neither of them would have ridden against those guys on a 250, its a shame that RV & Dungey both gave up their titles instead of making someone win them, but that , coupled with Stewart going AWOL and Canard being , well Canard, by the time they got to 450 , it wasnt the class they came to win.

I could agree with you , but whats the point of us both being wrong?

But Phil G, you're the one that's wrong not agn5009 lol
TJMX947
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TJMX947 4/2/2018 6:10pm
4/2/2018 6:10pm
Prntscrn wrote:
3) Even though Herlings didn't win that last moto It's the most impressive ride I've ever witnessed in person. Unreal performance. And I did see RVs...
3) Even though Herlings didn't win that last moto It's the most impressive ride I've ever witnessed in person. Unreal performance. And I did see RVs 2007 performance.
I'm not disagreeing. His corner technique was poetry in motion. He looked like he was going faster using less energy...almost like everyone was stuck in 2nd gear around the whole track ringing out the bike full throttle going nowhere and he was cruising.
lumpy790
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lumpy790 4/2/2018 6:15pm
4/2/2018 6:15pm
Who’s total moto purse pay out wins?
Prejump
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Prejump 4/5/2018 2:54am
4/5/2018 2:54am Edited Date/Time 4/5/2018 2:54am
Sorry I been to busy to get back on here for a few days to reply.

I think there in general there is a ton of over thinking going on in most replies.

We dont need to do this US against them shit, SX VS MX etc. They are different sports. SX is pretty much a US only deal.

SX is a sport for money & casual fans. Casuals fans don't post on vital, they prob don't even know what the GP's are. Most of them prob dont even have a passport.

Look at the SX series from a proper fan point. Within a couple of rounds 90% of the talent is out injured. Now we are treated to Anderson hopping around playing safe, Tomac & MM going for pointless wins. Its crap racing.

Taking 2 elite riders away from SX wont change much, it will still be a shit show after a few rounds as the talent crash out.

The 2 elite riders instead train for outdoors MXGP & arrive at rd 1 ready to campaign for a proper World Title.

I think it's pretty sad the majority of folk don't respect & crave a World Title. Ultimately it's costing your talent progressing in the sport we all love.

36Wheeler
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36Wheeler 4/5/2018 3:53am
4/5/2018 3:53am
I think the answer may lie in a more balanced view point of motocross series/championships in general. Currently most riders especially those in the US focus on 1 championship ei SX or MX in USA or MXGP for the rest of the world (with the exception of some European riders who race both their home nations championship and MXGP). What if more riders took this approach? We also constantly hear riders complaining that there is too many races especially in the US with SX and MX, the racing is almost constant. If the number of MXGP rounds was reduced and same with US nationals and supercross, then this may allow more riders to compete in their respective national champs as well as some or all World championship races. Its possible that this may take some level of pressure off of the riders allowing them to aim for 2 championships (so that it isn’t the end of the world if they are out of contention for 1 title they can focus more on the other). It may also bring more grass roots interest into the sport if all of the best riders in your country were competing for the national title and all the best riders in the world competing for the world title. I think the argument for who’s series is the best and whether US riders are better than European riders etc is invalid as it will constantly go back and forth year to year as to who comes out on top. But allowing more riders to compete on the world stage whether in SX or MX may increase the exposure of the sport and the riders.
It might see more Europeans racing Supercross and more Americans racing GPs
Of course my point my be completely useless, just my 2 cents (or 2 pennies)
kb228
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kb228 4/5/2018 4:17am
4/5/2018 4:17am
moto282 wrote:
Neither did Herlings when Anderson beat him in Italy, Webb beat him in Charlotte, or Tomac, etc... all of which are equally as dumb as your...
Neither did Herlings when Anderson beat him in Italy, Webb beat him in Charlotte, or Tomac, etc... all of which are equally as dumb as your example
SKlein wrote:
"Charlotte was at the end of the series and he didn't care", wait for it.
Didnt forkner beat herlings too at charlotte?
vschaik141
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vschaik141 4/5/2018 4:23am
4/5/2018 4:23am
36Wheeler wrote:
I think the answer may lie in a more balanced view point of motocross series/championships in general. Currently most riders especially those in the US focus...
I think the answer may lie in a more balanced view point of motocross series/championships in general. Currently most riders especially those in the US focus on 1 championship ei SX or MX in USA or MXGP for the rest of the world (with the exception of some European riders who race both their home nations championship and MXGP). What if more riders took this approach? We also constantly hear riders complaining that there is too many races especially in the US with SX and MX, the racing is almost constant. If the number of MXGP rounds was reduced and same with US nationals and supercross, then this may allow more riders to compete in their respective national champs as well as some or all World championship races. Its possible that this may take some level of pressure off of the riders allowing them to aim for 2 championships (so that it isn’t the end of the world if they are out of contention for 1 title they can focus more on the other). It may also bring more grass roots interest into the sport if all of the best riders in your country were competing for the national title and all the best riders in the world competing for the world title. I think the argument for who’s series is the best and whether US riders are better than European riders etc is invalid as it will constantly go back and forth year to year as to who comes out on top. But allowing more riders to compete on the world stage whether in SX or MX may increase the exposure of the sport and the riders.
It might see more Europeans racing Supercross and more Americans racing GPs
Of course my point my be completely useless, just my 2 cents (or 2 pennies)
most euro riders already do.
https://www.mxlarge.com/news/2018-european-motocross-calendar
lumpy790
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lumpy790 4/5/2018 4:26am
4/5/2018 4:26am
I have attended just about every East coast USGP since 1981 at Unadilla, Steel City and Budds Creek and attendance is very low. Unadilla was probably the most attended.

Americans care more about attending a USA MXON that any GP.
sbarrington314 4/5/2018 6:44am
4/5/2018 6:44am
matthew.hall.23 wrote:
The top 4 out of 5 best riders in the world right now are European Cairoli Herlings Roczen Tomac Musquin In that order In my opinion...
The top 4 out of 5 best riders in the world right now are European

Cairoli
Herlings
Roczen
Tomac
Musquin

In that order In my opinion anyway
"right now" as Roczen is sidelined AGAIN with a major arm injury and Musquin sits second in points, more than a full race down, to someone not even on your list. Yea, we will take you seriously. Whistling
Beeby
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Beeby 4/5/2018 6:54am
4/5/2018 6:54am
lumpy790 wrote:
I have attended just about every East coast USGP since 1981 at Unadilla, Steel City and Budds Creek and attendance is very low. Unadilla was probably...
I have attended just about every East coast USGP since 1981 at Unadilla, Steel City and Budds Creek and attendance is very low. Unadilla was probably the most attended.

Americans care more about attending a USA MXON that any GP.
So if Anderson, Bagget, Moosecan and Tomac rode the first 8 rounds of the MXGP around the world and the series hit the west coast for a round, came to Red bud a few rounds later and then did a round in Florida you don’t think it would be well attended?
ehr400
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ehr400 4/5/2018 7:00am
4/5/2018 7:00am
Couldn't imagine clicking on this and seeing the same people talking the same shit and delusions. I swear some of the theories on here are amazing. Anyone think the riders regardless of where they are follow the money? I mean because Vitard street cred is more important then bank balances.
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Nuffsaid 4/5/2018 7:28am
4/5/2018 7:28am
lumpy790 wrote:
I have attended just about every East coast USGP since 1981 at Unadilla, Steel City and Budds Creek and attendance is very low. Unadilla was probably...
I have attended just about every East coast USGP since 1981 at Unadilla, Steel City and Budds Creek and attendance is very low. Unadilla was probably the most attended.

Americans care more about attending a USA MXON that any GP.
Beeby wrote:
So if Anderson, Bagget, Moosecan and Tomac rode the first 8 rounds of the MXGP around the world and the series hit the west coast for...
So if Anderson, Bagget, Moosecan and Tomac rode the first 8 rounds of the MXGP around the world and the series hit the west coast for a round, came to Red bud a few rounds later and then did a round in Florida you don’t think it would be well attended?
West coast, the Glen Helen GP attendance was a good indicator of SoCal mentally.

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Jimmy Jingles 4/5/2018 7:35am
4/5/2018 7:35am
I think most people on here now acknowledge MXGP as the pinnacle of motocross racing.

Huh

NO
Prejump
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Prejump 4/5/2018 12:52pm
4/5/2018 12:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/5/2018 12:54pm
lumpy790 wrote:
I have attended just about every East coast USGP since 1981 at Unadilla, Steel City and Budds Creek and attendance is very low. Unadilla was probably...
I have attended just about every East coast USGP since 1981 at Unadilla, Steel City and Budds Creek and attendance is very low. Unadilla was probably the most attended.

Americans care more about attending a USA MXON that any GP.
Beeby wrote:
So if Anderson, Bagget, Moosecan and Tomac rode the first 8 rounds of the MXGP around the world and the series hit the west coast for...
So if Anderson, Bagget, Moosecan and Tomac rode the first 8 rounds of the MXGP around the world and the series hit the west coast for a round, came to Red bud a few rounds later and then did a round in Florida you don’t think it would be well attended?
Nuffsaid wrote:
West coast, the Glen Helen GP attendance was a good indicator of SoCal mentally.
You need to look at the bigger picture.

Why do most US MX fans not give a shit about an MXGP rd ? It's because you dont have any of your elite riders contending for a championship.

If Bagget dug deep over the winter, came out swinging at the start of the MXGP season, was mixing it up with JH & AC it would be huge news. Probably the biggest hype in the industry. With the hype would come the crowds.

The trouble is IMO the USA turn everything into an in house only deal. It's not just a moto thing, it's the US mentality. You believe your the best at everything & prefer to feed the fantasy rather then show up at the world stage & be accountable if you fail.

Not all riders are or fans, but in general it seems the logic.

IMO there is a certain pride that money cant buy to being a guy who conquers on the world stage. I just hope at some stage the US mentality changes as I really do think US participation within MXGP would be a major win for our sport.


moto282
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moto282 4/5/2018 2:13pm
4/5/2018 2:13pm
Prejump wrote:
You need to look at the bigger picture. Why do most US MX fans not give a shit about an MXGP rd ? It's because you...
You need to look at the bigger picture.

Why do most US MX fans not give a shit about an MXGP rd ? It's because you dont have any of your elite riders contending for a championship.

If Bagget dug deep over the winter, came out swinging at the start of the MXGP season, was mixing it up with JH & AC it would be huge news. Probably the biggest hype in the industry. With the hype would come the crowds.

The trouble is IMO the USA turn everything into an in house only deal. It's not just a moto thing, it's the US mentality. You believe your the best at everything & prefer to feed the fantasy rather then show up at the world stage & be accountable if you fail.

Not all riders are or fans, but in general it seems the logic.

IMO there is a certain pride that money cant buy to being a guy who conquers on the world stage. I just hope at some stage the US mentality changes as I really do think US participation within MXGP would be a major win for our sport.


I'm sure decades of the US dominating motocross everywhere had nothing to do with it. The last ~6 years the MXGP guys have changed that for sure for outdoor racing. I do look at the MX2 field though and wonder if it's going to last when you compare it to the pipeline of talent coming up in 250 class here.

You are right about one thing - MXGP will never take off in the US until the top riders from the US participate in it. And that seems unlikely because they get more money in the US racing SX/MX. Also, in the US you grow up watching our SX and MX championships - so just like how you think MXGP is the most prestigious, here we grow up looking at our series as the pinnacle of the sport.

MX fans that post on Vital know about the MXGP series and follow it. But go to a local riding spot in the US and most people won't know thing about it outside of that Dutch guy Herlings being crazy fast and what happened at the last MXDN.
Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 4/7/2018 2:08am
4/7/2018 2:08am
World championship?

If the ama/is series had a race in Canada,Mexico and South America would that qualify as a world championship or make the series better? No

Racing in Qatar Thailand Mexico where little to no riders come from isn’t adding or should I say drawing talent from those locations.

The Mxgp and ama series are equal to a world championship because anyone from anywhere can compete in either series.
Jrewing
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Jrewing 4/7/2018 4:15am
4/7/2018 4:15am
You Americans have the best God in the world! According to the GH national race commentator after the national anthem.
Sx is a stop gap for the outdoors. Herrings proved Gp guys are another level.
keinz
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keinz 4/7/2018 4:49am
4/7/2018 4:49am Edited Date/Time 4/7/2018 4:50am
Relax and wait. In the future, it's coing to be just 2 premier series. SX in US and MXGP. Stamp it
Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 4/7/2018 5:43am
4/7/2018 5:43am
Jrewing wrote:
You Americans have the best God in the world! According to the GH national race commentator after the national anthem. Sx is a stop gap for...
You Americans have the best God in the world! According to the GH national race commentator after the national anthem.
Sx is a stop gap for the outdoors. Herrings proved Gp guys are another level.
One race wonder? One race don’t forever make you the best. To max went 3 for 4 against the gp boys. That don’t make him the best ever.
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Kawi15 4/7/2018 5:46am
4/7/2018 5:46am
I think the OP makes a lot of assumptions. It also has this socialist mentality of forcing things into a certain structure that the free market really does not support. It is clear to me that a lot of people do not view the GP series as the premier series or the pinnacle series and not because of its riders. The truth is that at best it can only be considered an equal and different series to the AMA Nats and SX series. I can say this because if it were truly better, US riders would go there, but they do not because it really is not. The US riders have a great situation here at home in the US, why would they leave? Because supposedly Herlings is faster?
Bonanza69 4/7/2018 7:52am
4/7/2018 7:52am
Kawi15 wrote:
I think the OP makes a lot of assumptions. It also has this socialist mentality of forcing things into a certain structure that the free market...
I think the OP makes a lot of assumptions. It also has this socialist mentality of forcing things into a certain structure that the free market really does not support. It is clear to me that a lot of people do not view the GP series as the premier series or the pinnacle series and not because of its riders. The truth is that at best it can only be considered an equal and different series to the AMA Nats and SX series. I can say this because if it were truly better, US riders would go there, but they do not because it really is not. The US riders have a great situation here at home in the US, why would they leave? Because supposedly Herlings is faster?
It‘s not about which series has the best riders but which is the most challenging.To all the dudes who put a national championship on the same level as MXGP:“you are wrong“.
aFACEdismembered 4/7/2018 8:30am
4/7/2018 8:30am Edited Date/Time 4/7/2018 8:33am
keinz wrote:
Relax and wait. In the future, it's coing to be just 2 premier series. SX in US and MXGP. Stamp it
There's only so much money to go around and the "my small corner of the globe" mentality is rapidly shrinking with the growth of communication and technology. Just look at the locations of people in this thread for evidence.

I could see SX turning in to a World Championship with half the races here and the others all over the world. No east/west, but a North America/Europe 250 structure. Maybe 125 support classes more regional at each round. I personally could give a shit less if it takes rides away from our 250 class. Maybe it would give a hard slap of reality to Some of these parents and kids who metaphorically sell the farm to make it as an unsuccessful pro for multiple years. Many bubble guys come to mind. Guys who were occasionally making mains a few years ago that get 10th in the LCQ's now. The ship has sailed and they're not on it. They reached their peak and it wasnt enough.

This is the pinnacle of off road motorcycle racing we're talking about here. It's not supposed to be easily accessible for anyone to participate it. It's meant for the world's elite. Use your countries national series, arenacross series, etc. to find talent, not 3 20 minute moto's in August on a glorified pitbike track.
Prejump
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Prejump 4/7/2018 9:56am
4/7/2018 9:56am
Kawi15 wrote:
I think the OP makes a lot of assumptions. It also has this socialist mentality of forcing things into a certain structure that the free market...
I think the OP makes a lot of assumptions. It also has this socialist mentality of forcing things into a certain structure that the free market really does not support. It is clear to me that a lot of people do not view the GP series as the premier series or the pinnacle series and not because of its riders. The truth is that at best it can only be considered an equal and different series to the AMA Nats and SX series. I can say this because if it were truly better, US riders would go there, but they do not because it really is not. The US riders have a great situation here at home in the US, why would they leave? Because supposedly Herlings is faster?
The reason to leave is to be a world champion. That should mean more then a national champion.

Maybe in the past the AMA had an equal or perhaps faster top 10. Now the AMA nationals looks just like any other national series to me. The guys towards the back of an AMA national don't look like they should be out there. Like Herlings said after Ironman, half the field weren't even jumping the jumps. Lapping occours very early in an AMA nat & its quite frustrating to see the elite guys held up.

It perfectly clear MXGP is on another level in every aspect to outdoor racing. Gone are the slow privateers for the most part. Coming through the pack after a bad start is much harder, you have to ride a lot more over 2 days, you rider a greater variety of terrains.

I think now the difference is clear for most people to see, it's time to for the US elite to have a go. Like I said before it a US world champ might actually help the US industry more then a national champ. The AMA nats would be seen as the feeder series to breed the next world champ.

USA just need to step up & think bigger.

Post a reply to: If the public demand was high enough, could it happen ?