If nothing in the rule book; make it up?

mattyhamz2 wrote:

Its the AMA, there is no consistency and probably never will be. Like I always heard joked about, what are the first three letters of amateur?

They are cowardly enough to only hand out stiff penalties where it doesn't actually matter to the integrity of the sport.

Dirty Points wrote:

There is no friggin' way Hartranft could know who he was supposed to fall in behind after that mess. Nor should he have stayed on the track.

Ultimately, I think Hartranft received such a severe penalty for the exact opposite reason that one would penalize positions: because his position didn't matter.

TDeath21 wrote:

Go offtrack. Turn around. Enter where he left. Go through carnage. Easy.

This. And if you don’t you’re DQ’d.

Common sense.

Riders wouldn’t cut the track again.

You can't just dock him time because that doesn't factor the difficulty and time required to make passes.

Dirty Points wrote:

There is no friggin' way Hartranft could know who he was supposed to fall in behind after that mess. Nor should he have stayed on the track.

Ultimately, I think Hartranft received such a severe penalty for the exact opposite reason that one would penalize positions: because his position didn't matter.

TDeath21 wrote:

Go offtrack. Turn around. Enter where he left. Go through carnage. Easy.

Robgvx wrote:

This. And if you don’t you’re DQ’d.

Common sense.

Riders wouldn’t cut the track again.

But, of course, don't do it to big name/big sponsor guys.

731chopper wrote:

You can't just dock him time because that doesn't factor the difficulty and time required to make passes.

It was the start. They're the same thing at that point.

I get the logic of pegging him behind Locurcio, but that's not what they did. Locurcio finished 11th, Hartranft was docked to 19th.

731chopper wrote:

You can't just dock him time because that doesn't factor the difficulty and time required to make passes.

Dirty Points wrote:

It was the start. They're the same thing at that point.

Oh okay, so any time there is carnage in front of you on the start just cut the track and take the 8 seconds added to your total race time. Hell of a lot better than avoiding the mess and tucking into 17th and having to work through the pack... You can't be serious.

731chopper wrote:

You can't just dock him time because that doesn't factor the difficulty and time required to make passes.

Dirty Points wrote:

It was the start. They're the same thing at that point.

731chopper wrote:

Oh okay, so any time there is carnage in front of you on the start just cut the track and take the 8 seconds added to your total race time. Hell of a lot better than avoiding the mess and tucking into 17th and having to work through the pack... You can't be serious.

It worked for AC. Except no time added or carnage in front. In fact, you can even feel free to add your own carnage to the track, if it helps your position.

Once again, I am perfectly fine with this penalty if it was functional as part of an even remotely uniform application of rules. It is not.

Here's a more complete explanation. And yeah, it's in the rule book.


1. The penalty for gaining an advantage while off course during a race will be the loss of number of positions gained plus one additional position in the final results for that race. If no positions were gained, the penalty will be the loss of one position in the final results for that race.
It was concluded that he had gained 13 positions (by using #44 as the first opportunity #114 would have had to cross back to where he left), but gave back 3 by slowing. That leaves 10, plus one penalty spot, as the rule states.

This is the same way Plessinger was penalized, this year, and also Savatgy, last year.

GuyB wrote:

Here's a more complete explanation. And yeah, it's in the rule book.


1. The penalty for gaining an advantage while off course during a race will be the loss of number of positions gained plus one additional position in the final results for that race. If no positions were gained, the penalty will be the loss of one position in the final results for that race.
It was concluded that he had gained 13 positions (by using #44 as the first opportunity #114 would have had to cross back to where he left), but gave back 3 by slowing. That leaves 10, plus one penalty spot, as the rule states.

This is the same way Plessinger was penalized, this year, and also Savatgy, last year.

Seems fair to me

Dirty Points wrote:

There is no friggin' way Hartranft could know who he was supposed to fall in behind after that mess. Nor should he have stayed on the track.

Ultimately, I think Hartranft received such a severe penalty for the exact opposite reason that one would penalize positions: because his position didn't matter.

TDeath21 wrote:

Go offtrack. Turn around. Enter where he left. Go through carnage. Easy.

Robgvx wrote:

This. And if you don’t you’re DQ’d.

Common sense.

Riders wouldn’t cut the track again.

Great idea if you're pushed off the track between the triples or a difficult rhythm section...just brilliant...

450 main event. Tomac gets shoved wide and off the track due to first turn carnage. Just to the inside of him, Adam Raper manages to stay on the track and proceed as normal after picking his way through the yard sale. Tomac waits a little bit and files into third place. He proceeds to pass Seely and Wilson and cross the checkered flag first. Raper, meanwhile, gets 20th. What does the AMA do?

I think the rule used to be one had to re-enter where they went off? Does anyone know when that changed?

TDeath21 wrote:

450 main event. Tomac gets shoved wide and off the track due to first turn carnage. Just to the inside of him, Adam Raper manages to stay on the track and proceed as normal after picking his way through the yard sale. Tomac waits a little bit and files into third place. He proceeds to pass Seely and Wilson and cross the checkered flag first. Raper, meanwhile, gets 20th. What does the AMA do?

Who's Adam Raper?