If WP CV's are so good why are they always for sale?

joe846
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12/11/2017 2:07pm
In the past it seemed like A Kit suspension was really, really tough to get second hand outside of Southern California for years. I remember people freaking out of getting Ohlins forks in the road race world...

Over time that's changed, with different levels of accessibility (ecommerce) and with KYB & Showa seeing how a larger channel has fueled consumer appetite. Still, you'd don't see this stuff just floating around.

Now though, WP Cone Valves seem to have flooded the market and are showing up in all types of racing and across all of "for sale" forums. Is this just because WP produces 99% of their stuff for one brand while KYB & Showa span a few brands? Or is it the KTM buyer who has more funds and is more willing to try expensive suspension?

Either way, if CV's are so good why are so many for sales?
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Tuna
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12/11/2017 2:22pm
WP supply more than one brand of bikes. KTM, Husky, Sherco, Alta...
joe846
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12/11/2017 2:29pm
Tuna wrote:
WP supply more than one brand of bikes. KTM, Husky, Sherco, Alta...
The % of their production allocated to non KTM brands is very low. There are a ton of KTM/Husky's on the market and tons more KTM/Husky CV's compared to other brands.
12/11/2017 2:41pm
It's cuz 4CS were so friggin awful everyone went looking for alternative solutions, and cone valves are pretty cheap in the world of kit suspension.
yz133rider
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12/11/2017 2:58pm
I'd say anything ktm/husky is very hot right now. They fit all the big bikes also, so they can swap from 125-450 etc

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captmoto
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12/11/2017 3:01pm
I think it's a different mindset from WP. Maybe WP produces them with an eye on aftermarket sales as opposed to factory only use. It's Euro thinking vs. Japanese thinking too. I don't see me buying them but it's nice to know they are out there if I wanted to spring for them.
pete24
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12/11/2017 3:58pm
maybe people get sik of the ktms and go back to jap bikes and sell off the parts,
12/11/2017 4:27pm
You can find many brands of kit suspension for all different makes all the time, look in the FS section you will find lots of suspension.
colintrax
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12/11/2017 4:39pm
The 4cs sucked, so lots of cone valves were sold to replace those. You won't find many people swapping out the yamaha sss stuff for kyb kit forks. Also the cone valves are pretty cheap, easier to justify the expense.
xr70
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12/11/2017 5:40pm
I think that some people expect more from the cv"s and they get little disappointed and trying to recover their $. Well at least some cases. The cv"s are not magical! Good set of SSS KYB"s is as that good if not better.
Superdave19
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12/11/2017 6:09pm
xr70 wrote:
I think that some people expect more from the cv"s and they get little disappointed and trying to recover their $. Well at least some cases...
I think that some people expect more from the cv"s and they get little disappointed and trying to recover their $. Well at least some cases. The cv"s are not magical! Good set of SSS KYB"s is as that good if not better.
Not magical, but tons better than stk AER's, which are pretty good anyway
CarlinoJoeVideo
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12/11/2017 6:31pm
I think its because they are less expensive than most kit suspension so there's lots on the market. No suspension is magic, any suspension is only as good as the person setting them up.
ML512
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12/11/2017 7:13pm
Lots of guys bought them during the 4CS era; not as many need them during the AER48 era, switching bike brands, or updating to newer units.
Superdave19
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12/11/2017 7:16pm
ML512 wrote:
Lots of guys bought them during the 4CS era; not as many need them during the AER48 era, switching bike brands, or updating to newer units.
ML- Conventioal Cone Valve, or AER Cone Valve? -which do you prefer?
ML512
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12/11/2017 8:15pm Edited Date/Time 12/11/2017 8:15pm
ML512 wrote:
Lots of guys bought them during the 4CS era; not as many need them during the AER48 era, switching bike brands, or updating to newer units.
ML- Conventioal Cone Valve, or AER Cone Valve? -which do you prefer?
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork over the AER48 CV air leg...I like the self balancing pressure system better than separating the positive and negative air chambers.

Favorite fork period would still be a kit KYB PSF1.
kdawson252
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12/11/2017 9:02pm
ML512 wrote:
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork...
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork over the AER48 CV air leg...I like the self balancing pressure system better than separating the positive and negative air chambers.

Favorite fork period would still be a kit KYB PSF1.
Well we know what one the kit shootout now.
ML512
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12/11/2017 10:23pm
ML512 wrote:
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork...
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork over the AER48 CV air leg...I like the self balancing pressure system better than separating the positive and negative air chambers.

Favorite fork period would still be a kit KYB PSF1.
kdawson252 wrote:
Well we know what one the kit shootout now.
PSF1 wasn't in it, spring forks only...
tek14
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12/11/2017 10:31pm
So suspension shootout is ready to publish?
WP CVs are best I have ever run in my bike but now I have been just using WP AER48 and saved extra money for second bike.
Justin345
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12/12/2017 5:39am
Brand new WP cone valves - $3,500
Brand new WP trax shock - $2,500
You can buy them separately.

Showa A kit purchased from pro circuit:
Must buy forks/shock together and will also need triple clamps and axle.
~$11,000
Bruneval
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12/12/2017 6:29am
I have bought aftermarket suspension for my KTMs on a number of occasions.Admittedly it has all been Ohlins and not CV, but this example might explain why:

I bought a brand new 2015 Husqvarna TC250, and sold the ridden once OEM 4CS forks and WP shock for a total of 1100 GBP. I didn't like it at all. I then picked up an 9.5 out of 10 condition Ohlins RFX fork and TTX shock for 1,500 GBP and had the Ohlins sprung for me, with the tuner telling me not to bother re-valving as it was in the ballpark for me and the sheer number of click adjustments would allow me to dial it in. Service and springs was another 350 GBP.

All in, I had a set of far superior suspension tailored to me for not much more than it would have paid to set-up (and still be unhappy with) the stock stuff, and I was able to use it on a number of different bikes and then sell it for pretty much what I paid for it.

For me, the reason there's so many CV in circulation is that KTM is really good about interchangeability between it's models, combined with the strong resale value. I would think very differently about spending c.11k for new A Kit from PC when I would only get a fraction of that back if I wanted to sell it a year down the line.
JohnMatrix
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12/12/2017 11:06am
I agree with pretty much what everyone has said. I think what makes them so easy to buy and sell is their low initial cost for kit forks, and more importantly, their resale value. Often the total loss you would take on buying CV's then selling in a few years is around the same as getting a stock fork revalved and maybe having a spring conversion, etc done. So if you can handle the up-front investment for them, you're really only going to lose what you'd probably spend on custom setup for a likely inferior fork.

And don't let the quantity for sale on the market fool you, they are awesome!
mx317
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12/12/2017 11:16am
ML512 wrote:
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork...
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork over the AER48 CV air leg...I like the self balancing pressure system better than separating the positive and negative air chambers.

Favorite fork period would still be a kit KYB PSF1.
I know at least one tuner that replaces the cone with a conventional mid-valve. He said it was partly because of his knowledge of that particular mid-valve piston he uses.
aees
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12/12/2017 12:52pm
ML512 wrote:
Lots of guys bought them during the 4CS era; not as many need them during the AER48 era, switching bike brands, or updating to newer units.
ML- Conventioal Cone Valve, or AER Cone Valve? -which do you prefer?
ML512 wrote:
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork...
Conventional CV without a CV in it would be my main choice... As for AER, I actually prefer the air leg from a standard AER48 fork over the AER48 CV air leg...I like the self balancing pressure system better than separating the positive and negative air chambers.

Favorite fork period would still be a kit KYB PSF1.
Interesting. What did you want to fix with removing the CV, and how did it work out? Got 2017/18 CV on my 450sxf
bowser
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12/12/2017 1:03pm
One of the biggest advantages is with the cone is the ability to have low bleed/float and the cone travel.
So a large high speed hit's energy can displace the cone a lot further and take the sting out of it. To setup a conventional piston the same with low float etc results in fatiguing the shims early.

CV's were an easy choice for me, I have no plans to swap from Husky/KTM hence buy one set of good forks and swap from bike to bike. The swap from larger to smaller axle saw a lot of CV's hit the market with teams swapping to the newer axle size.
Superdave19
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12/12/2017 1:07pm Edited Date/Time 12/12/2017 1:15pm
I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a set of CV’s, but feel the stk shock is serviceable..Would it be crazy? Running CV’s w/ a quality revalved shock?
bowser
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12/12/2017 1:16pm
I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a set of CV’s, but feel the stk shock is serviceable..Would it be crazy? Running CV’s w/ a...
I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a set of CV’s, but feel the stk shock is serviceable..Would it be crazy? Running CV’s w/ a quality revalved shock?
Certainly not, trax are way over rated and over priced. I have done a lot of testing back to back with revalved stock vs stock trax vs revalved trax.
My current bike will have my CV's fitted (when back from kashima coating) and revalved stock shock.
mark911
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12/12/2017 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 12/12/2017 6:03pm
Justin345 wrote:
Brand new WP cone valves - $3,500 Brand new WP trax shock - $2,500 You can buy them separately. Showa A kit purchased from pro circuit...
Brand new WP cone valves - $3,500
Brand new WP trax shock - $2,500
You can buy them separately.

Showa A kit purchased from pro circuit:
Must buy forks/shock together and will also need triple clamps and axle.
~$11,000
I've been thinking about the cost and availability of so-called "kit" suspension as they pertain to the AMA rules for the 250SX and 250MX class. As I read them, ANY fork and shock that's being used by ANY 250 team must be made available to the public within a specific time of order for a working item cost not to exceed $5200 (fork) and $2000 (shock). Replacement parts must also be made available as well. I'm not sure if it includes clamps, however. The only real caveat being you need to be a current AMA licensed SX or MX Pro to apply.

So, if you can find a licensed pro to apply you can buy the same stuff the factory 250 teams are running, including the same Showa forks/shock that ProCircuit sells, apparently at quite a cost savings. Obviously, they'll still need to be tuned.

I'm not saying any of this stuff is better, just that it's an attempt by the AMA to help level the playing field in the 250 class.
ML512
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12/12/2017 2:55pm
aees wrote:
Interesting. What did you want to fix with removing the CV, and how did it work out? Got 2017/18 CV on my 450sxf
Im not an overall fan of the damping characteristic of a CV, mostly the initial feel of one and how held up they felt for the most part. Interesting note...the majority of factory KTM and Husky riders are on WP 52mm forks with mid speed valves instead of cone valves, as far as I've seen.
ML512
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12/12/2017 2:58pm Edited Date/Time 12/12/2017 2:58pm
I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a set of CV’s, but feel the stk shock is serviceable..Would it be crazy? Running CV’s w/ a...
I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a set of CV’s, but feel the stk shock is serviceable..Would it be crazy? Running CV’s w/ a quality revalved shock?
TLD does it with their am kids all the time. The Traxx shock isn't that big of a difference over production in terms of usability in my opinion. I'd rather spend the money having a stock shock revalved and have a bladder placed in it. The customer Traxx shocks still use dual pistons while the US teams have been using bladders in their Traxx shocks. Last I checked the parts to convert them over weren't available to the public...but that was a year ago when I asked.
bowser
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12/12/2017 3:02pm
The CV's still have that inherent problem of pressure build up in the inner chamber, like most dual chamber forks
CarlinoJoeVideo
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12/12/2017 7:25pm
I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a set of CV’s, but feel the stk shock is serviceable..Would it be crazy? Running CV’s w/ a...
I’m very close to pulling the trigger on a set of CV’s, but feel the stk shock is serviceable..Would it be crazy? Running CV’s w/ a quality revalved shock?
ML512 wrote:
TLD does it with their am kids all the time. The Traxx shock isn't that big of a difference over production in terms of usability in...
TLD does it with their am kids all the time. The Traxx shock isn't that big of a difference over production in terms of usability in my opinion. I'd rather spend the money having a stock shock revalved and have a bladder placed in it. The customer Traxx shocks still use dual pistons while the US teams have been using bladders in their Traxx shocks. Last I checked the parts to convert them over weren't available to the public...but that was a year ago when I asked.
Another interesting fact about the Trax shock is that sounds like theres a big number of pro riders that use the shock with the "Trax" mechanism disengaged. Would you say thats true?

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