I want to know all the Aus MX problems

Related:
Create New Tag

7/14/2018 3:52 PM

Because if I only look at their social, the riders of the series social, etc.. it looks like it’s banging. Lots of riders, good competition, semi trucks, reminds me of Canadian nationals.

So please enlighten us what the hell is going on in Australia that makes people talk like MA is burying the sport one weekend at a time.

|

7/14/2018 10:33 PM

Haha *crickets*

I don't actually know how the MA is ruining Aus mx (I mean exactly that, I'm not saying they aren't haha)..

The problem I see is the quality of riders drops off pretty drastically after the top 5-6 but that's no ones fault..
Also maybe the teams are throwing too much money at the rigs and all that, I reckon they could do it all with less..
Although an authority on all that I'm not haha

|

why am I reading this? ..... Oh christ, now I'm posting...... shiiiiiiiit!!

7/14/2018 11:18 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/15/2018 10:33 PM

It is what it is - what it has, generally, always been : a tiny sport, in the grand scheme of things.

We are a Vast, Vast country, with just on 24 million people Most of us clustered on the Coastline, or within the first hundred or so Kilometers of it.

Yet, when compared to the USA, with roughly 14 to 15 times the population we have, we buy about a fifth / sixth of the bikes the US does. So, we've a pretty bloody good per capita sales rate compared to the USA. And many other countries / markets.

But still, we've the distances, and thus the costs, that keep much of our sport compartmentalized.

.We've had Federations that have milked the Dirt Bike side of the sport to 'feed' the tar side. That was corrected finally in the late eighties by people that worked their guts out to solve issues.Because I worked with several of the main players in that era, I saw a lot of went down. And, have unending admiration for those that did the hard yards.

I'm out of it all now.

It appears things have gone backwards a bit.

We have a few blokes here that are pretty vociferous about the situation now. I'd like to hear / read of things, but a bit might be (perfectly understandably) coloured by some's more localized problems.

The thing is - World Wide, I believe We All are facing pretty much the same problems - a shrinking sport, due to Many issues, be it land access, noise, expense, 'Haters' of the sport (well, Any Motorsport) and the radically changing habits of people - the young especially..

Wherever you are in 'established' markets, things have contracted. Less people riding / buying bikes. Then, the almost inevitable exodus from MX, where you generally get such little track time, to Enduro / Offroad racing, to the Biggest side of our sport - Trail Riding.

The hope we may have IS the emerging markets. The ones that many on this site bleat about having GPs etc. I've said so very often, if the emerging / growing markets like South America, India, Asia in general / China specifically have even a poofteenth of a percentage of the more cashed up people get into the Fun of Dirt Bikes, we could see a boom that utterly Dwarfs the 70s boom in Dirt Bikes in the US, Australia / New Zealand, and much of the 'West'.

To (basically) repeat, I believe we have pretty much the same problems as say, the US. The sport having Federations that don't do a good enough job, that have ceded so much to Promoters. And, Promoters, largely, have only their bottom line as important to them - not the Sport itself.

Things Everywhere , are not particularly 'Rosie'.

I Do welcome writings of fellow Aussies who are far, far more involved in our sport here than I am - as I said, I'm well out of it, so have little current knowledge of Motorcycling Australia's efforts in either furthering our Sport, or if they are, indeed, burying it.

|

7/14/2018 11:20 PM

Small population in comparison, expensive bikes and a cost to race that is unrealistic but for those willing to go deep or have it in buckets. Bike shops are closing everywhere. So are tracks.

|

7/14/2018 11:21 PM

I think it’s more to do with the way the promoter is running the MX series, all the ex riders never have a good word to say about it, wether they don’t wanna say it why they are still racing I’m not sure but it always seems to come out once they are finished. On the flip side all the riders current and past have nothing but great things to say about the SX series and the way the different promoters are at putting on the events and the way they are run.

|

7/14/2018 11:40 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/14/2018 11:42 PM

I think it’s similar here and in the US, there are a lot more practice tracks and bike parks that most people prefer to go to , because they get more riding in, the races are more hassle to most people that just want to turn up and ride ,

Add that to the professionalism like webcasts , trucks , and other stuff has taken money away from the racers , creating a bigger gaps between the teams and the privateers ,

|

7/14/2018 11:46 PM

Gone from racing kick ass tracks like this




to racing flat paddock tracks like this

|

7/15/2018 12:12 AM

Stoop wrote:

Gone from racing kick ass tracks like this




to racing flat paddock tracks like this

I'm Australian and I've only been into riding the last 4/5 years and can't really say to much about it but that first track looked fucking awesome. When I have watched a bit of the racing on nrgtv and have noticed that the tracks are flat and almost looks like the riders have to hold back on jumps! With pretty shit coverage watching from home too so I didn't bother watching any more.

|

7/15/2018 12:16 AM

it doesn’t help that the rounds are to far apart and in the past they have gone up and down the coast line like a yo-yo instead of working its way up or down the coast to make it easier on the teams, instead they have to travel to a round and then back to their base then 3 weeks later travel to another round in the opposite direction and back, logistically it could be done some much better to help the teams financially which would entice more teams to be part of and to stay apart of the series, which could help improve the pay packet for the riders also not having to spend some much on travel alone, This country has so many riders that are or could be quite capable of racing at a national level but it’s just not affordable or enticing for them So they just work a regular job which pays 3 times as much and ride club days and at ride parks

Some of the moto media in this country are good but most are horrible at interaction with the public, if you live outside of the east coast and can’t make an event good luck finding to much out besides a results post, even with the social media aspect of things which in this day and age is a gateway for the fans and a promoting tool for not only the riders but media themselves the interaction is never there you could ask a question or comment and there is little no response so people tend to shy away from the sport

|

7/15/2018 12:41 AM

Participation is the biggest issue facing MX worldwide.

Anything that retards that is an issue. Anything that advances it are great. Mx has a lot of issues... cost, noise, laise, obesity, parental paranoia, PlayStations and fortnite and like above, distance and our other sports posing competition.

|

Cheers, Crush
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


7/15/2018 1:32 AM

When I lived in qld MX was very alive and well on a local and pro level.

Now I'm back in SA, and it is the worst I've ever seen. It's pretty much non existent outside of the capital city which is why I've had to turn to trail riding to get any joy out of my bike.

|

7/15/2018 1:57 AM

What did happen with Goanna tracks hosting a national? That was a great event.

|

7/15/2018 2:02 AM

pdub187 wrote:

What did happen with Goanna tracks hosting a national? That was a great event.

My understanding was the promoter wanted somewhere closer to major population.

|

7/15/2018 2:18 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/15/2018 2:19 AM

I raced a lot in the 90's and early 2000's. I then took a break from moto to concentrate on school then career then house then family.
I got back into moto a couple years ago and I don't feel the sport is much different now than it was back then. The only place it has regressed is track availability as there has been a number of closures which can't be helped by those in the industry.
Cost wise I feel prices are about the same. Gear, boots, helmets etc are all about the same price now was they were then. I paid around 7k for a kx125 in 2001, now a yz125 is around 9-10k, not much of an increase in 18 years.
Club days still get good turn outs around here although there are less clubs so that would factor in. The big series still pull big numbers too.
As has been said, it's a small sport where tracks are mostly in the middle of no where and it's not cheap compared to other sports.
On the national level, if the big teams got together and as a collective decided to downsize their rigs they could then pay the riders more and more riders could get support. Whether this would impact sponsorship I don'tknow.
I'm not sure the promotors could do more for the schedule to make it easier for the teams, you would think if it were possible they would have done it. That's between the teams and promotors.

|

7/15/2018 3:10 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/15/2018 3:11 AM

I live in a Moto mecca and couldn't even practice at local tracks in the end. The clubs are run by yobbos, and MNSW, MA, are useless as tits on a bull. You just need to read Casey Stoner's book to realise how fucked MA is.

|

7/15/2018 3:53 AM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

Because if I only look at their social, the riders of the series social, etc.. it looks like it’s banging. Lots of riders, ...more

Forget about our national series, its doing ok'ish. It costs around $300 to enter a national in either the mx1 or mx 2 class.
Thats beyond local hero ,have a stab at it , pricing...thats why the gates arent always full..

The real issue is grass roots...Its not quite dead, but it surely has died off.
MA ( motorcycling Asphyxiated) bears the lions share of the blame.

Forget about all the other factors weighing on the sport...the ride parks are pumping and bikes are selling. Per capita...waaaaay more than most countries, even the USA, Australia subsidises the USA...the Japanese OEM's can cut prices to the USA to be competetive, to get sales, and ask a huge premium in Australia and usually get it..

Its about mx racing... From here on , all my assertions are based on the State of Victoria, where I live and do most of my racing

Back track....In the 80's , the race calendar was full, a club had to have it's shit together to get a date.
I raced 38 open senior race meetings in 1984.
Now there are less than 6 open senior races on the vic calendar.

Back before around 1994, there was a body that ran senior mx and other bodies that ran junior mx...seniors had their tracks,juniors had theirs, they operated completely independently.
Both juniors and seniors mx thrived.
Then....some imbecile thought it would be a brilliant idea to amalgamate all into one controlling body ( m a ).

As the sport is mostly run and administrated by volunteers...we had a meeting of volunteers at the committee level.
The club/racing/ sports enthusiast volunteers came up against pushy , obnoxious mini bike parents...and walked away leaving mx in Victoria 100% run by mini bike parents...

As an adult rider..this is what happened...

Racing mx went from...turn up Sunday morning..race your class,and there were usually no more than 8 classes on the day and typically you got 2x 20 min motos, minimal charge for en extra class, minimal hassles, minimal expense.

To....

Turn up pre dawn , sign up, sign up your own personal flag marshal or you dont ride...( junior racing used parents as flaggers on a roster basis, they never considered that adult racers might not have the option to take a parent with them..see, juniors dont take parents to the races with them, the parents take the juniors..whats more, the parents pay for it all ).
Take your bikes and gear into a tiny fenced in and locked up pit area, no more pitting where you are parked...

Go to riders briefing, wait through the tedium of the roll call...if you dont answer when your name is called...no ride..

Go for practise..maybe 2 laps...( after all...its no longer 8 senior classes but something in the realm of 30 classes of assorted nappy wearing babies on bikes )

Wait a couple of hours for your 5 lap race..cut down to 3 laps ,due to delays in the program every time a nappy wearing child falls over and lays there and cries til mummy comes to kiss it better..

Then repeat.... If you are lucky you got 5x 3 lap motos in from 6am saturday morning to 4 pm sunday afternoon..

Yeah yeah...why not run seniors one day...juniors the next? Noooo...the little kids like to see the big boys ride so we cant do that....motocross is all about the kids..the kids are the future of the sport ( till mummy and daddy stop paying for it, and or they discover cars, grog and the waxed magnet...previously the furry magnet..)

A newbie discovers dirt bikes..lets
go race...

Gotta have a license to race..ok...thats $ 350 per year...but you cant get a license unless you join an affiliate club..that might be $100...you dont want to join a club, you dont want to be in a club , just go race but stiff shit, those are the rules.
You have to have your race license application and or renewal , stamped by the secretary of your club, to do that, you need to track them down personally..never mail it, they might check the club po box every other month or so..

Then you wanna enter a race...say the vic titles.. ok..cough up around $140 for your class including the mandatory, flagger levy, the riders insurance levy, the medical levy...then add another $80 per extra class.

Or, you could just go ride at a ride park for $45 to $55, race your mates all day long on a professionally managed and prepared mx track that is way better than just about any club track..

If you are a club...

You have a track? Yes ? Good! But you can't ride on it....ever ...unless you get a permit from MA and fork over the $$$
You just wanna ride ,not race? Stiff shit, you still have to have ma officials present and you may have to pay for them to travel there...
Its only a practise day and the track is safe..no bad blind spots...do we really need flaggers? Yes! And they must be able to link hands all the way around the circuit!

So you wanna change your track a bit? Maybe add some new jumps or something...nope, cant do that..not without permission from ma... you have to send them a plan of your propsed changes, they will send a track inspector to approve the changes...$$$$ and if you wanna keep making changes all the time, its inspections and registration fees , each and every change you make..$$$$$$$$$
You have to have your track inspected and registered by MA every year too...$$$$

You wanna run a race? Give MA all your money...every cent...you cant run mx racing without MA... after all, they are the government recognised, official controlling body of motorcycle sport in Australia...except for New South Wales ,where the NSW department of sport and recreation has the overriding authority.

Look...I could go on and on and on..
If you really wanna know, get your arse on an airplane and come to Australia, I'll loan you a bike..you wanna go racing, be my guest...wont be long before you figure out for yourself why I call the pricks, Motorcycling Asphyxiated..

|

2020 YZ450F
2006 YZ125
2013 YZ 250F special edition
2017 YZ 250
2015 YZ 250f soecial edition
2019 KTM 85 big wheel
1979 YZ 250

7/15/2018 4:11 AM

PJRAUS wrote:

Forget about our national series, its doing ok'ish. It costs around $300 to enter a national in either the mx1 or mx 2 class.
...more

100% agree with all of this its fucked in Victoria my license has been expired for 18 months and I refuse to renew it due to the cost, quality of tracks and lack of races. Why pay $200+ to race a vic round at some hard pack blue grooved track when I can go to muskerry or ride park for $45 or go ride a local rotted out Bush track of similar quality to these club rounds. What a joke.

|

7/15/2018 5:04 AM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

Because if I only look at their social, the riders of the series social, etc.. it looks like it’s banging. Lots of riders, ...more

PJRAUS wrote:

Forget about our national series, its doing ok'ish. It costs around $300 to enter a national in either the mx1 or mx 2 class.
...more

I'm in NSW and you 100% nailed it, the cost before you even start your bike is insane, but as an adult trying to race it's the flag Marshall issue that has really killed it, even if I wanted to race I need to ask a friend to stand on a track in the heat or rain all day long and wave a flag, oh and for free too, it's not they have weekend plans or a life or anything.

|

7/15/2018 7:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 7/15/2018 7:43 AM

like anything run by comittees, its a clusterfck of ideas, plans, commitments, with a few complete idiots thrown in..

ive been a secretary of a ma afiliated club, with the whole shebang of meetings where we had tres, pres and sec up front holding a full fledged meeting with minutes of the last meeting right thru to the gabble hits the table and meeting closed...

we ran race meetings, held club days, flagged at an oz sx round etc etc..

we had about 30-40 regulars turn up every second tues night.
sometimes we got stuff done other times we didnt..

one interesting thing was after awhile i got really good at putting hecklers in their place, by being quick to tirning it from everybody laughing at me to everyone laughing at the heckler..

my point, if i had one, is that ypu need a core group of likeminded, all get on well, that are willing to put the time in...about 6 to 10 guys can acomplish a lot..

the trick is how do you form such a group?

the MA doesnt have that, doubt it ever has, so thats why its next to useless.

|

7/15/2018 10:16 AM

make1go wrote:

like anything run by comittees, its a clusterfck of ideas, plans, commitments, with a few complete idiots thrown in..

ive ...more

Ive done all that too, really just not interested in being involved in the club scene anymore.
The club thing is an inefficient buisness model , which is why most clubs struggle.
Racing needs to be run by private entrepenuers that run races for profit, therefore they would have to provide their customers ( the racers ) with a value for money experience.
Any involvement with MA rules that out completely as being a viable proposition.
The sport needs only a small level of administration, so a small privately run buisness could be set up to do that.

Clubs should look at leasing their tracks to private operators....think about it...
The ride park operators are doing well and more and more people are buying new bikes or dusting off old ones to go ride these great new tracks..
The vast majority of these people want nothing to do with clubs or MA....that says it all

|

2020 YZ450F
2006 YZ125
2013 YZ 250F special edition
2017 YZ 250
2015 YZ 250f soecial edition
2019 KTM 85 big wheel
1979 YZ 250

7/15/2018 2:19 PM

Something I forgot to add in my first post, back before I took my break from moto there were no motocross parks around and clubs rarely had practice days. If you wanted to ride moto you had to go to race meets. With parks popping up and more clubs opening up for practice days you can avoid racing and get more riding time for less money.
My comments are geared towards Queensland. I have been on a club committee in New South Wales and the difference in the regulations between motorcycling qld and motorcycling nsw is surprising. MNSW seems a lot harder to deal worth than MQld and have their hand out at every opportunity

|

7/15/2018 6:14 PM

A little off topic here, but why cant we get a MXGP in Australia?

|

7/15/2018 6:18 PM

JackkyT wrote:

A little off topic here, but why cant we get a MXGP in Australia?

the same reason NZ does not have one, the government (state or federal) wont write the big cheque to Youthstream,

|

7/15/2018 6:20 PM

PJRAUS wrote:

Ive done all that too, really just not interested in being involved in the club scene anymore.
The club thing is an ...more

Clubs run where business can not make it viable to run,

i think MX would be even more expensive if a business ran it,

look at WEM running the aussie nationals, no one is claiming its more efficient and cheaper for the riders,

|

7/15/2018 7:13 PM

Can someone explain what a club is? Like we literally don’t have these in America so it’s very foreign to me. What does it take to be in a club? What’s the point?

Sounds like you guys need some good ole American anti government freedom to ride type operation.

|

7/15/2018 7:20 PM

I havent raced in a few years now, If i want to head out for a club race this weekend, it either costs me $350 for a year licence. Or about $100 for a single event licence, once i've gone through the drama of getting somebody to OK that i can ride a circle without killing myself. Then you add the membership cost to the club and entry fee and im up for minimum $300. If i have a good time and want to have another go next month, that's another $300.

The other problem is, the 12 hour sit around for 3x4 lap races. Sit in the sun for 45 minutes waving a flag, fall asleep between race 2 and 3. Then have race 3 dropped to 3 laps or cancelled completely due to bad light.

Easier to driver to a praccy track, ride from 8am-11:30, get double the laps of a race day and then i'm home in time to wash everything up and continue on with my life.

I am interested in the indoor track that's opening in Sydney soon though, that might get me on the bike more often.

|

7/15/2018 7:55 PM

make1go wrote:

like anything run by comittees, its a clusterfck of ideas, plans, commitments, with a few complete idiots thrown in..

ive ...more

PJRAUS wrote:

Ive done all that too, really just not interested in being involved in the club scene anymore.
The club thing is an ...more

scott_nz wrote:

Clubs run where business can not make it viable to run,

i think MX would be even more expensive if a business ran it,

look ...more

I really dont think youve considered my post properly.
Kevin Williams is the Giuseppe Luongo of Australian MX he loves the $$$ and he milks the riders for every penny, He does everything through MA and MA guarantees that he will never see a rival trying to run big championship races.
He has to fork out $$$$to pay for flights , meals and accomodation for the MA officials that oversee national title events$$$$$ plus all the other MA bulshit and $$$$$ expense that goes along with it...If he wasnt hooked to MA his overheads would be considerably less.

Clubs often own their property or lease it...they could in turn lease it to a private operator whos job it would be to have that track prepped and ready for every saturday and sunday and maybe a day through the week...the club riders would be the foundation of his customer base.....many more new customers would come along.
The club could still use the track to do club things but would have to leave MA behind.
It would be in the best interest of the club to help the private operator with maintenance and promotion.

The idea could work well...think about it all before shooting me down....
The private track operators are making a good living from charging adults $45 to $55 per day. They get that nearly every saturday and sunday. Most clubs run a practise day about 8 to 10 times a year, thats usually a real hard push with volunteer labour, the rest of the time the track is locked up,and once MA takes their chunk out of the dollars , theres usually bugger all left after a practise day

MA are a glorified insurance broker....a very expensive insurance broker with no competition...
All their bullshit rules and regulations are just there way of trying to justify their own existence.
They run huge races at places in the USA with no wankers like MA involved...the world vet championship and the world two stroke championship are 2 that spring to mind..
How well do you reckon that would go if MA had any involvement with it?

Think it all through carefully before replying

|

2020 YZ450F
2006 YZ125
2013 YZ 250F special edition
2017 YZ 250
2015 YZ 250f soecial edition
2019 KTM 85 big wheel
1979 YZ 250

7/15/2018 8:00 PM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

Can someone explain what a club is? Like we literally don’t have these in America so it’s very foreign to me. What does it ...more

In order to obtain a race licence, which you have to have ,just because MA says so, you have to be a financial member of an MA afilliated club before you can apply for a license...because MA says so.
Clubs have tracks but you arent allowed to ride on them ever, unless its an MA sanctioned event or practise day.
If MA finds out a club had been letting them ride without an ma permit, they cancel the clubs affiliation and they have to either shut or go find their own insurance.
Clubs in South Australia are all dropping MA and getting their own insurance...next step for them should be to lease their facilitties to a private operator to make the club pump..

|

2020 YZ450F
2006 YZ125
2013 YZ 250F special edition
2017 YZ 250
2015 YZ 250f soecial edition
2019 KTM 85 big wheel
1979 YZ 250

7/15/2018 10:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/15/2018 10:46 PM

Jeff_Crutcher wrote:

Can someone explain what a club is? Like we literally don’t have these in America so it’s very foreign to me. What does it ...more

a club is a non profit organisation run by volunteers for the better of the sport,

USA does have them, I know Dirt Diggers that ran hangtown are one,

|

7/15/2018 10:42 PM
Edited Date/Time: 7/15/2018 10:43 PM

PJR is on the money, motorcycle racing has to be run as a business, even with MA it could still work but for the good of the sport, better MA (and the various state controlling bodies) are bi-passed.

I have raced for over 45 years, professional motocross and professional roadracing, I have been an 'official' and a 'coach' under MV (Motorcycling Victoria) for over 20 years. I have raced in 4 different countries, plus have run race & recreation ride events under MV for over 20 years.

With so many farmers struggling for a dollar in Australia, finding somewhere to run a motocross is easy, farmers are jumping at a $500 payment for a one-weekend event on their property.

Once insurance is covered from rider entry-fees, pay a few corner-workers, sling the property owner a few bucks ..... everyone has a good time.

|

Melbourne, Australia. Current rides: '11 RMZ450, '84 CR500, '06 DRZ400, '79 KX250 with 400 engine, '06 GSXR1000 full Yosh racebike.