I could almost bet ktm is payin

BikeGraphixKC
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 3:26am
those guys to ride the 350....

i just have that gut feeling. after just watching shorty's last phx recap vid, i was just thinking to myself why?? why why why??? if you have a bike with 100 more cc's and your riders arent doing what they should, why not ride the 450?
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jndmx
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jndmx 1/17/2011 2:54pm
1/17/2011 2:54pm
Don't they get paid to ride on a factory team normally?
newmann
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newmann 1/17/2011 2:58pm
1/17/2011 2:58pm
It's what they're trying to sell. I'll bet every other top guy is getting paid to ride a 4 stroke. Why why why?
MunchMunch
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MunchMunch 1/17/2011 2:59pm
1/17/2011 2:59pm
Have they not atleast tested the 450cc machine at the ktm test track??? I'd guess they have and are running faster lap times on the 350cc bike..... for them to stick with it.

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WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 1/17/2011 3:05pm
1/17/2011 3:05pm
KTM has staked a lot of their well-deserved reputation for innovative engineering on the 350. They really want that bike to be a success, and pulling their factory guys off of it would put the "failure" label on it whether it deserves it or not (and it doesn't for almost any amateur). It's like Yamaha and Honda lobbying so strongly to keep pro SX/MX from allowing 250 two strokes to race against 250Fs - Yamaha in particular would actually be at a big competitive advantage and Honda could just restart production of the CR250s, but that would hurt their 250F sales.

There's a reason that race teams are part of factories' marketing efforts.
lucero10x
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lucero10x 1/17/2011 3:10pm
1/17/2011 3:10pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2011 3:11pm
I think everyone on here is forgetting that KTM's track record in big bike SX is fuggin horrible. Last year, the year before, the year before that and so on. The last dude to place worth a shit in the big boy class is Mike Fisher. I think he ran a top five or something on like a 1991 or 1992 KTM 250 MX. Then, the next year they named the line SX after Fishers amazing finishes in supercross.

Guess what guys, these aren't bad finishes for KTM, 350 or 450. Give them a minute to get it figured out. This is their first real effort in SX for decades.

And if their efforts in off road and the GP's are any clue as to what the future holds...talk all your shit now because they will get it figured out.
dunn2500
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dunn2500 1/17/2011 3:11pm
1/17/2011 3:11pm
MunchMunch wrote:
Have they not atleast tested the 450cc machine at the ktm test track??? I'd guess they have and are running faster lap times on the 350cc...
Have they not atleast tested the 450cc machine at the ktm test track??? I'd guess they have and are running faster lap times on the 350cc bike..... for them to stick with it.
bingo
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`ol Ger 1/17/2011 5:33pm
1/17/2011 5:33pm
I like kTM's innovative spirit.
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ktm764 1/17/2011 6:06pm
1/17/2011 6:06pm
Did you not notice that short was second into the first corner in the main, and also ty simmonds holeshot in the lcq on the 350, did you ever think it might be the rider, short is awesome and finishing a couple spots behind dungy and others just like last year. And as far as the quad he could jump at a1 wey and many others did'nt do it either.
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Chad McCan 1/17/2011 6:43pm
1/17/2011 6:43pm
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big class.
TerryK
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TerryK 1/17/2011 6:51pm
1/17/2011 6:51pm
Chad McCan wrote:
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big...
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big class.
Exactly! Many of the 250 guys would be running in the top ten in the 450 class is given the chance. I just don't understand how people seem to think the 350 is not capable of running up near the front.
Xeno
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Xeno 1/17/2011 6:58pm
1/17/2011 6:58pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2011 6:59pm
Chad McCan wrote:
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big...
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big class.
TerryK wrote:
Exactly! Many of the 250 guys would be running in the top ten in the 450 class is given the chance. I just don't understand how...
Exactly! Many of the 250 guys would be running in the top ten in the 450 class is given the chance. I just don't understand how people seem to think the 350 is not capable of running up near the front.
Yes, going by lap times the smaller bikes can hold their own with 450s.
However, the comparison doesn't always work when the bikes are racing on the track. I'll give you an example:

At Phoenix there was a triple after the whoops. It was a short run from a right hander to hit the triple. Shorty had to rail the outside of the turn to clear the triple. The top 450 guys were jumping it from the middle line no problem. Guess where Shorty got passed? Guys would get a run at him in the whoops and then dive inside of him while still being able to pull the trigger on the triple.
Same thing would happen if the top Lites guys raced their bikes against the 450s.

TerryK
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TerryK 1/17/2011 7:05pm
1/17/2011 7:05pm
Xeno wrote:
Yes, going by lap times the smaller bikes can hold their own with 450s. However, the comparison doesn't always work when the bikes are racing on...
Yes, going by lap times the smaller bikes can hold their own with 450s.
However, the comparison doesn't always work when the bikes are racing on the track. I'll give you an example:

At Phoenix there was a triple after the whoops. It was a short run from a right hander to hit the triple. Shorty had to rail the outside of the turn to clear the triple. The top 450 guys were jumping it from the middle line no problem. Guess where Shorty got passed? Guys would get a run at him in the whoops and then dive inside of him while still being able to pull the trigger on the triple.
Same thing would happen if the top Lites guys raced their bikes against the 450s.

Makes sense, but if the smaller bike's rider were turning the same lap times it becomes obvious that the 250/350 rider is making up the time in other areas.
MDMCG
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MDMCG 1/17/2011 7:13pm
1/17/2011 7:13pm
Chad McCan wrote:
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big...
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big class.
TerryK wrote:
Exactly! Many of the 250 guys would be running in the top ten in the 450 class is given the chance. I just don't understand how...
Exactly! Many of the 250 guys would be running in the top ten in the 450 class is given the chance. I just don't understand how people seem to think the 350 is not capable of running up near the front.
That's b/c the ProCircuit bikes are faster than the KTM factory 350. Just stating that simple little fact....
mxr102
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mxr102 1/17/2011 7:20pm
1/17/2011 7:20pm
Those KTM 350s are 408cc to. So don't let them fool you. My good buddy who is the National Sales Rep for Motorex goes to alot of there Dyno runs and alot of KTM does for testing. He has personally told me that he got this information strait out of the head man at KTM.
Chad McCan
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Chad McCan 1/17/2011 7:20pm
1/17/2011 7:20pm
Fine, but it's not the 100cc's that they are giving up that's costing them. A KTM 450 doesn't land any of those guys on the podium. RD will solve the puzzle, but Short and Alessi aren't part of the solution. He should get Pourcel on a bike tonight.

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mxr102
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mxr102 1/17/2011 7:24pm
1/17/2011 7:24pm
Chad McCan wrote:
Fine, but it's not the 100cc's that they are giving up that's costing them. A KTM 450 doesn't land any of those guys on the podium...
Fine, but it's not the 100cc's that they are giving up that's costing them. A KTM 450 doesn't land any of those guys on the podium. RD will solve the puzzle, but Short and Alessi aren't part of the solution. He should get Pourcel on a bike tonight.
Andrew Short is one of the best test riders out there.
Chad McCan
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Chad McCan 1/17/2011 7:30pm
1/17/2011 7:30pm
Yep, about the 8th best. He's got a family and kids, he can't afford to hang it out on a bike that's not the weapon of choice. He's trying, but look at the top 5 (single, no kids, willing to win or die). Only Reeds ego keeps him in the running.
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TbonesPop 1/17/2011 7:39pm
1/17/2011 7:39pm
Chad McCan wrote:
Fine, but it's not the 100cc's that they are giving up that's costing them. A KTM 450 doesn't land any of those guys on the podium...
Fine, but it's not the 100cc's that they are giving up that's costing them. A KTM 450 doesn't land any of those guys on the podium. RD will solve the puzzle, but Short and Alessi aren't part of the solution. He should get Pourcel on a bike tonight.
mxr102 wrote:
Andrew Short is one of the best test riders out there.
Yes, and Shorty took second in his heat race too on the KTM 350. Alessi couldn't even make it out of the LCQ. It's not the lack of CCs. If anything, it's mostly the Rider and or suspension/bike tuning.
Xeno
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Xeno 1/17/2011 7:42pm
1/17/2011 7:42pm
Maybe the fastest lap time for each racer happens on a lap when they don't have a competitor directly in front or behind them. They can take the fast lines and not worry about a block pass from the inside.

I thought the 350 would be competitive this year- maybe even in the top 5. I still think Shorty will get there, but after watching the first two races in person I realized the 450s have just a little extra off the bottom to make an advantage in tight sections.

Think about it, racers like Alessi and Short don't lose talent overnight. And they are arguably in the top 5 as far as training and practice habits. Their results tell me they are bringing a pistol to a fight that warrants a bazooka. It's too bad because the 350 is probably a great bike for the masses (although I haven't ridden it yet) and I hope KTM sells a ton of them in spite of the race results.
TripleFive 1/17/2011 7:42pm
1/17/2011 7:42pm
Chad McCan wrote:
Fine, but it's not the 100cc's that they are giving up that's costing them. A KTM 450 doesn't land any of those guys on the podium...
Fine, but it's not the 100cc's that they are giving up that's costing them. A KTM 450 doesn't land any of those guys on the podium. RD will solve the puzzle, but Short and Alessi aren't part of the solution. He should get Pourcel on a bike tonight.
mxr102 wrote:
Andrew Short is one of the best test riders out there.
And had been a podium guy for how many series in a row? A tun. much more than people seem to give him credit for.

However, I am of the impression that it takes a certain rider to make the 350 work - I could see guys like Barcia, K-Roc and the like ripping on one. I believe that the power of the 450 suited the silky-smooth style of Andrew, rather than the "hold it wide" style of some of the younger guys right now.

That being said, Andrew did pull a 2nd place ride in heat 1 at Phoenix. Everyone jumping on the 350 hatin' band-wagon is a little premature I believe. Let's take a look at who beat Andrew at rd.2: 7,2,41,22,1,10. All of those guys (-JB$) have proven themselves consistently faster than Andrew in years past. His fall from a 2nd-3rd-4th place guy is just a result of having all of the top guys healthy in addition to some fresh meat (41,2,1).

100cc's might help him be a consistent top5 guy but it wouldn't help much more right now.
TerryK
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TerryK 1/17/2011 7:55pm
1/17/2011 7:55pm
mxr102 wrote:
Those KTM 350s are 408cc to. So don't let them fool you. My good buddy who is the National Sales Rep for Motorex goes to alot...
Those KTM 350s are 408cc to. So don't let them fool you. My good buddy who is the National Sales Rep for Motorex goes to alot of there Dyno runs and alot of KTM does for testing. He has personally told me that he got this information strait out of the head man at KTM.
Yeah, I'm sure that KTM is running 408cc motors and saying they are 350s and telling Joe average everything, thereby risking all the millions of dollars they have invested in the 350.

Dry
TerryK
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TerryK 1/17/2011 7:56pm
1/17/2011 7:56pm
TripleFive wrote:
And had been a podium guy for how many series in a row? A tun. much more than people seem to give him credit for. However...
And had been a podium guy for how many series in a row? A tun. much more than people seem to give him credit for.

However, I am of the impression that it takes a certain rider to make the 350 work - I could see guys like Barcia, K-Roc and the like ripping on one. I believe that the power of the 450 suited the silky-smooth style of Andrew, rather than the "hold it wide" style of some of the younger guys right now.

That being said, Andrew did pull a 2nd place ride in heat 1 at Phoenix. Everyone jumping on the 350 hatin' band-wagon is a little premature I believe. Let's take a look at who beat Andrew at rd.2: 7,2,41,22,1,10. All of those guys (-JB$) have proven themselves consistently faster than Andrew in years past. His fall from a 2nd-3rd-4th place guy is just a result of having all of the top guys healthy in addition to some fresh meat (41,2,1).

100cc's might help him be a consistent top5 guy but it wouldn't help much more right now.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Right on the money.
gotwings
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gotwings 1/17/2011 8:01pm
1/17/2011 8:01pm
Chad McCan wrote:
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big...
I don't think it's the 100cc's. I saw Hanson in the low 50's on a 250f, which would have put him top 5ish in the big class.
TerryK wrote:
Exactly! Many of the 250 guys would be running in the top ten in the 450 class is given the chance. I just don't understand how...
Exactly! Many of the 250 guys would be running in the top ten in the 450 class is given the chance. I just don't understand how people seem to think the 350 is not capable of running up near the front.
Yeah, they can do similar lap times (within a couple of seconds), ONCE THEY GET ROLLING. But they get smoked on the start. I didn't see Shorty get second on the holeshot at Phoenix...
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Faceaz 1/17/2011 8:02pm
1/17/2011 8:02pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
KTM has staked a lot of their well-deserved reputation for innovative engineering on the 350. They really want that bike to be a success, and pulling...
KTM has staked a lot of their well-deserved reputation for innovative engineering on the 350. They really want that bike to be a success, and pulling their factory guys off of it would put the "failure" label on it whether it deserves it or not (and it doesn't for almost any amateur). It's like Yamaha and Honda lobbying so strongly to keep pro SX/MX from allowing 250 two strokes to race against 250Fs - Yamaha in particular would actually be at a big competitive advantage and Honda could just restart production of the CR250s, but that would hurt their 250F sales.

There's a reason that race teams are part of factories' marketing efforts.
How would the 250 2 stroke hurt Yamaha, they still make it. Kawasaki, Suzuki & Honda on the other hand are probably very against it.
TerryK
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TerryK 1/17/2011 8:05pm
1/17/2011 8:05pm
gotwings wrote:
Yeah, they can do similar lap times (within a couple of seconds), ONCE THEY GET ROLLING. But they get smoked on the start. I didn't see...
Yeah, they can do similar lap times (within a couple of seconds), ONCE THEY GET ROLLING. But they get smoked on the start. I didn't see Shorty get second on the holeshot at Phoenix...
Smoked? He was second into the first turn in his heat.
gotwings
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gotwings 1/17/2011 8:18pm
1/17/2011 8:18pm
Oh, in his HEAT.
Even a busted clock is right twice a day. If you're getting smoked by a privateer Honda, something's not working...
TripleFive 1/17/2011 8:23pm
1/17/2011 8:23pm
gotwings wrote:
Oh, in his HEAT.
Even a busted clock is right twice a day. If you're getting smoked by a privateer Honda, something's not working...
Are you referencing 22?

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