"I changed the frame this week..."

davis224
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davis224
Edited Date/Time 8/31/2021 12:16pm
Who else caught that? Cooper said they changed the frame during the week and that "Ian and Roger were possibly going to murder me over it".

So, what do we think? Are they tailoring custom frames for their riders? Did he misspeak and mean just a generic chassis change?

Personally, I'd be surprised if most of the factories weren't tweaking the frames for their riders, and it would be especially easy to hide on a steel frame. I don't really care if they use different thicknesses/angles in certain areas, because they still have to race the damn thing. I'm not sure if the AMA or another team will see it the same though.
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mx317
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mx317 8/28/2021 2:51pm
8/28/2021 2:51pm
Maybe went back to 2018 softer frame
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Scull79
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Scull79 8/28/2021 2:55pm
8/28/2021 2:55pm
Prediction: Webb ends his career as 4x sx champ/ 1x mx champ in 450s. Let the hate begin.
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davis224
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davis224 8/28/2021 2:58pm
8/28/2021 2:58pm
Scull79 wrote:
Prediction: Webb ends his career as 4x sx champ/ 1x mx champ in 450s. Let the hate begin.
I'm gonna say yes/no. 4x supercross titles seems likely, but an outdoor championship when he just now got his 2nd podium ever? Tall order.
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davis224
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davis224 8/28/2021 3:01pm
8/28/2021 3:01pm
mx317 wrote:
Maybe went back to 2018 softer frame
I guess I didn't think of that possibility. Didn't McGrath race the same frame on Honda?
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Scull79
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Scull79 8/28/2021 3:05pm
8/28/2021 3:05pm
Scull79 wrote:
Prediction: Webb ends his career as 4x sx champ/ 1x mx champ in 450s. Let the hate begin.
davis224 wrote:
I'm gonna say yes/no. 4x supercross titles seems likely, but an outdoor championship when he just now got his 2nd podium ever? Tall order.
I agree, even 1 mx title is a tall order but the dude is a scrapper. That’s why I’ve always pulled for him, he’s Mercia all the way. If he pulls out another podium next weekend, then things are looking good. Either way I don’t think anyone will have anything for him come January. Especially if he gets some confidence at the end of outdoors.
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FerCzD
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FerCzD 8/28/2021 3:06pm
8/28/2021 3:06pm
Scull79 wrote:
Prediction: Webb ends his career as 4x sx champ/ 1x mx champ in 450s. Let the hate begin.
Not sure about one MX champ. But indoors I wouldn't bet against him on getting 4. Next year will be telling, since is his first year in KTM without Aldon tutelage
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flarider
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flarider 8/28/2021 3:09pm
8/28/2021 3:09pm
May just be engine hangers, not the actual frame
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 8/28/2021 3:20pm
8/28/2021 3:20pm
Lots of changes can be made to the frame externally. Aka engine mounts subframe height, different bolts of TI vs aluminum or even stainless steal. All of that adds up to flex/rigidity
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 8/28/2021 3:29pm
8/28/2021 3:29pm
Maybe he switched to aluminum but painted it so no one would catch on……

😎
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 8/28/2021 3:31pm
8/28/2021 3:31pm
flarider wrote:
May just be engine hangers, not the actual frame
The ones he ordered from WCL back in February finally arrived?!?!?!?!

(Sorry if it’s ‘too soon’ but it was an empty net……)
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flarider
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flarider 8/28/2021 3:43pm
8/28/2021 3:43pm
LOL

Kawboy got clicked again?
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TyRod
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TyRod 8/28/2021 4:04pm
8/28/2021 4:04pm
mx317 wrote:
Maybe went back to 2018 softer frame
That's exactly what I was thinking! Remembering how McGrath was using the 93 frame up to 96 before the aluminum frame...
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Superdave19
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Superdave19 8/28/2021 5:25pm
8/28/2021 5:25pm
If you look carefully on the Austrian SX bikes, they have a small brace welded under the exhaust on the cradle.
Do the outdoor bikes not have this mod?
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soggy
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soggy 8/28/2021 5:42pm
8/28/2021 5:42pm
davis224 wrote:
Who else caught that? Cooper said they changed the frame during the week and that "Ian and Roger were possibly going to murder me over it"...
Who else caught that? Cooper said they changed the frame during the week and that "Ian and Roger were possibly going to murder me over it".

So, what do we think? Are they tailoring custom frames for their riders? Did he misspeak and mean just a generic chassis change?

Personally, I'd be surprised if most of the factories weren't tweaking the frames for their riders, and it would be especially easy to hide on a steel frame. I don't really care if they use different thicknesses/angles in certain areas, because they still have to race the damn thing. I'm not sure if the AMA or another team will see it the same though.
I believe they are able to add bracing in certain areas of the frame but can’t make any geometry changes.
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 8/28/2021 5:42pm
8/28/2021 5:42pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2021 5:43pm
A legal move as long as it's not over 5 years old. The big take is that" Ian and Roger are gonna kill me". Best finish of the season, and he had to fight his team for the change. Shades of Keith.
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number six
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number six 8/28/2021 5:56pm
8/28/2021 5:56pm

" we coulda been up here all year " was an interesting comment from Webb.
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Zachintosh
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Zachintosh 8/28/2021 6:08pm
8/28/2021 6:08pm
I believe it. Remember how Poto’s season turned around in 2011 when he got on the 2012 Kawi’s more compliant frame? He was a different rider.
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MKMX
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MKMX 8/28/2021 6:18pm
8/28/2021 6:18pm
A bit like JS7 and some tyres. Some things just make a huge difference.
kylemenz1
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kylemenz1 8/28/2021 6:28pm
8/28/2021 6:28pm
Serious question here:

With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an amateur) has any manufacturer tried designing SX and MX frames for production bikes every other few years?

For instance, if a frame was built ridgid good for tight point and shoot style SX racing, and the next generation frame was built with more flex that suited long rough MX style racing. If this was done race teams be able to use the different generation frames for multiple years in each discipline giving teams better ability to set up chassis.

Do you guys think that would benefit riders/teams in preseason testing and racing?
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inthebadboycorner 8/28/2021 6:53pm
8/28/2021 6:53pm
kylemenz1 wrote:
Serious question here: With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an amateur)...
Serious question here:

With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an amateur) has any manufacturer tried designing SX and MX frames for production bikes every other few years?

For instance, if a frame was built ridgid good for tight point and shoot style SX racing, and the next generation frame was built with more flex that suited long rough MX style racing. If this was done race teams be able to use the different generation frames for multiple years in each discipline giving teams better ability to set up chassis.

Do you guys think that would benefit riders/teams in preseason testing and racing?
Plausible idea for the KTM group, make a production MX bike for the masses, then make an Factory SX Edition 1/2 year edition. They seem to have money to throw around.
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 8/28/2021 6:59pm
8/28/2021 6:59pm
Not sure what changes KTM made to the frame, but you can be damn sure that AMA tech is going to flip up the peg springs TWICE next race during tech inspection since cooper said something.
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UGOTBIT
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UGOTBIT 8/28/2021 7:05pm
8/28/2021 7:05pm
number six wrote:

" we coulda been up here all year " was an interesting comment from Webb.
He said he "wished obviously they could have been here all season"
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 8/28/2021 7:16pm
8/28/2021 7:16pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2021 7:23pm
It’s been stated several times that Roger put them on their GP Team package since they were delayed in their own MX testing due to SX championship contention. They were late to the game and thought they were better to start the 2021 National series with the GP package than what little time they had left to test to develop their own package.

I’m willing to bet Cooper finally convinced them to ditch the GP frame version and let him go back to whatever he was running at the end of SX. I could see this being a big deal to Roger and Ian because when the frames are different between USA and GP, the team loses correlation and data between the two teams. The frame change would also impact suspension settings, forward traction which would require diff ECU settings/mapping, and probably many other small things.

Anyone’s guess as to what’s different with the GP frame.
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Zycki11
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Zycki11 8/28/2021 7:35pm
8/28/2021 7:35pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2021 7:49pm
kylemenz1 wrote:
Serious question here: With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an amateur)...
Serious question here:

With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an amateur) has any manufacturer tried designing SX and MX frames for production bikes every other few years?

For instance, if a frame was built ridgid good for tight point and shoot style SX racing, and the next generation frame was built with more flex that suited long rough MX style racing. If this was done race teams be able to use the different generation frames for multiple years in each discipline giving teams better ability to set up chassis.

Do you guys think that would benefit riders/teams in preseason testing and racing?
Wouldn’t make sense. The whole goal is to sell motorcycles. Make a bike that works for the masses and the pros can win on.

Not to mention the manufacturing costs to switch it so often.
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 8/28/2021 7:37pm
8/28/2021 7:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2021 7:40pm
mxtech1 wrote:
It’s been stated several times that Roger put them on their GP Team package since they were delayed in their own MX testing due to SX...
It’s been stated several times that Roger put them on their GP Team package since they were delayed in their own MX testing due to SX championship contention. They were late to the game and thought they were better to start the 2021 National series with the GP package than what little time they had left to test to develop their own package.

I’m willing to bet Cooper finally convinced them to ditch the GP frame version and let him go back to whatever he was running at the end of SX. I could see this being a big deal to Roger and Ian because when the frames are different between USA and GP, the team loses correlation and data between the two teams. The frame change would also impact suspension settings, forward traction which would require diff ECU settings/mapping, and probably many other small things.

Anyone’s guess as to what’s different with the GP frame.
KTM wouldnt' likely be running around all season in the back of the top 10 with a GP frame. That wouldn't be worth risking an embarrassing protest over, because only production is legal. Everyone who has tested the new frames said the same thing, overly rigid. Team Austria has had a very rough year, and JA21 and DW15 have also struggled. Bam Bam had been the bright spot.
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motokiwi
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motokiwi 8/28/2021 7:45pm
8/28/2021 7:45pm
kylemenz1 wrote:
Serious question here: With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an amateur)...
Serious question here:

With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an amateur) has any manufacturer tried designing SX and MX frames for production bikes every other few years?

For instance, if a frame was built ridgid good for tight point and shoot style SX racing, and the next generation frame was built with more flex that suited long rough MX style racing. If this was done race teams be able to use the different generation frames for multiple years in each discipline giving teams better ability to set up chassis.

Do you guys think that would benefit riders/teams in preseason testing and racing?
This is the future. And is what Triumph should be doing.

PB- its madness that Webb is not sx only.
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