"I changed the frame this week..."

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8/28/2021 2:49 PM

Who else caught that? Cooper said they changed the frame during the week and that "Ian and Roger were possibly going to murder me over it".

So, what do we think? Are they tailoring custom frames for their riders? Did he misspeak and mean just a generic chassis change?

Personally, I'd be surprised if most of the factories weren't tweaking the frames for their riders, and it would be especially easy to hide on a steel frame. I don't really care if they use different thicknesses/angles in certain areas, because they still have to race the damn thing. I'm not sure if the AMA or another team will see it the same though.

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8/28/2021 2:51 PM

Maybe went back to 2018 softer frame

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Take it to the limit, one more time!

8/28/2021 2:55 PM

Prediction: Webb ends his career as 4x sx champ/ 1x mx champ in 450s. Let the hate begin.

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8/28/2021 2:58 PM

Scull79 wrote:

Prediction: Webb ends his career as 4x sx champ/ 1x mx champ in 450s. Let the hate begin.

I'm gonna say yes/no. 4x supercross titles seems likely, but an outdoor championship when he just now got his 2nd podium ever? Tall order.

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8/28/2021 3:01 PM

mx317 wrote:

Maybe went back to 2018 softer frame

I guess I didn't think of that possibility. Didn't McGrath race the same frame on Honda?

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8/28/2021 3:05 PM

Scull79 wrote:

Prediction: Webb ends his career as 4x sx champ/ 1x mx champ in 450s. Let the hate begin.

davis224 wrote:

I'm gonna say yes/no. 4x supercross titles seems likely, but an outdoor championship when he just now got his 2nd podium ever? ...more

I agree, even 1 mx title is a tall order but the dude is a scrapper. That’s why I’ve always pulled for him, he’s Mercia all the way. If he pulls out another podium next weekend, then things are looking good. Either way I don’t think anyone will have anything for him come January. Especially if he gets some confidence at the end of outdoors.

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8/28/2021 3:06 PM

Scull79 wrote:

Prediction: Webb ends his career as 4x sx champ/ 1x mx champ in 450s. Let the hate begin.

Not sure about one MX champ. But indoors I wouldn't bet against him on getting 4. Next year will be telling, since is his first year in KTM without Aldon tutelage

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8/28/2021 3:09 PM

May just be engine hangers, not the actual frame

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8/28/2021 3:13 PM

Or the subframe.

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8/28/2021 3:20 PM

Lots of changes can be made to the frame externally. Aka engine mounts subframe height, different bolts of TI vs aluminum or even stainless steal. All of that adds up to flex/rigidity

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8/28/2021 3:21 PM

Lowered subframe and foot pegs?

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8/28/2021 3:29 PM

Maybe he switched to aluminum but painted it so no one would catch on……

😎

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8/28/2021 3:31 PM

flarider wrote:

May just be engine hangers, not the actual frame

The ones he ordered from WCL back in February finally arrived?!?!?!?!

(Sorry if it’s ‘too soon’ but it was an empty net……)

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8/28/2021 3:43 PM

LOL

Kawboy got clicked again?

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8/28/2021 4:04 PM

mx317 wrote:

Maybe went back to 2018 softer frame

That's exactly what I was thinking! Remembering how McGrath was using the 93 frame up to 96 before the aluminum frame...

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8/28/2021 5:25 PM

If you look carefully on the Austrian SX bikes, they have a small brace welded under the exhaust on the cradle.
Do the outdoor bikes not have this mod?

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Current rides-
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2021 GasGas MC450

8/28/2021 5:42 PM

davis224 wrote:

Who else caught that? Cooper said they changed the frame during the week and that "Ian and Roger were possibly going to murder ...more

I believe they are able to add bracing in certain areas of the frame but can’t make any geometry changes.

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8/28/2021 5:42 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/28/2021 5:43 PM

A legal move as long as it's not over 5 years old. The big take is that" Ian and Roger are gonna kill me". Best finish of the season, and he had to fight his team for the change. Shades of Keith.

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8/28/2021 5:56 PM


" we coulda been up here all year " was an interesting comment from Webb.
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8/28/2021 6:04 PM

Webb is a SX only rider, or KTM has a SX only frame?

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8/28/2021 6:08 PM

I believe it. Remember how Poto’s season turned around in 2011 when he got on the 2012 Kawi’s more compliant frame? He was a different rider.

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8/28/2021 6:18 PM

A bit like JS7 and some tyres. Some things just make a huge difference.

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8/28/2021 6:28 PM

Serious question here:

With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an amateur) has any manufacturer tried designing SX and MX frames for production bikes every other few years?

For instance, if a frame was built ridgid good for tight point and shoot style SX racing, and the next generation frame was built with more flex that suited long rough MX style racing. If this was done race teams be able to use the different generation frames for multiple years in each discipline giving teams better ability to set up chassis.

Do you guys think that would benefit riders/teams in preseason testing and racing?

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8/28/2021 6:39 PM

flarider wrote:

LOL

Kawboy got clicked again?

I did?

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8/28/2021 6:53 PM

kylemenz1 wrote:

Serious question here:

With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an ...more

Plausible idea for the KTM group, make a production MX bike for the masses, then make an Factory SX Edition 1/2 year edition. They seem to have money to throw around.

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8/28/2021 6:59 PM

Not sure what changes KTM made to the frame, but you can be damn sure that AMA tech is going to flip up the peg springs TWICE next race during tech inspection since cooper said something.

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8/28/2021 7:05 PM

number six wrote:
" we coulda been up here all year " was an interesting comment from Webb.

He said he "wished obviously they could have been here all season"

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8/28/2021 7:16 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/28/2021 7:23 PM

It’s been stated several times that Roger put them on their GP Team package since they were delayed in their own MX testing due to SX championship contention. They were late to the game and thought they were better to start the 2021 National series with the GP package than what little time they had left to test to develop their own package.

I’m willing to bet Cooper finally convinced them to ditch the GP frame version and let him go back to whatever he was running at the end of SX. I could see this being a big deal to Roger and Ian because when the frames are different between USA and GP, the team loses correlation and data between the two teams. The frame change would also impact suspension settings, forward traction which would require diff ECU settings/mapping, and probably many other small things.

Anyone’s guess as to what’s different with the GP frame.

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8/28/2021 7:35 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/28/2021 7:49 PM

kylemenz1 wrote:

Serious question here:

With the ability to run a frame that’s design is 5 years old (I thought it was 2 years but I’m an ...more

Wouldn’t make sense. The whole goal is to sell motorcycles. Make a bike that works for the masses and the pros can win on.

Not to mention the manufacturing costs to switch it so often.

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8/28/2021 7:37 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/28/2021 7:40 PM

mxtech1 wrote:

It’s been stated several times that Roger put them on their GP Team package since they were delayed in their own MX testing ...more

KTM wouldnt' likely be running around all season in the back of the top 10 with a GP frame. That wouldn't be worth risking an embarrassing protest over, because only production is legal. Everyone who has tested the new frames said the same thing, overly rigid. Team Austria has had a very rough year, and JA21 and DW15 have also struggled. Bam Bam had been the bright spot.

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