How would Mitch Payton do?

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8/27/2018 12:30 PM

A thought entered my mind the other night. How would Pro Circuit do if they became the official Suzuki 250 effort? Could Mitch turn it around?

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8/27/2018 12:31 PM

How long till Mitch sells what he built and retires?

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8/27/2018 12:34 PM

Well, it’s never going to happen.

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“Let the Good Times Roll”

8/27/2018 12:35 PM

MrKnowNothing wrote:

A thought entered my mind the other night. How would Pro Circuit do if they became the official Suzuki 250 effort? Could Mitch ...more

as soon as AMA allows them use KTM/Husky motors in Suzukis like MXGP teams did use.

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8/27/2018 12:37 PM

tek14 wrote:

as soon as AMA allows them use KTM/Husky motors in Suzukis like MXGP teams did use.

Huh? laughing

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8/27/2018 12:38 PM

MrKnowNothing wrote:

A thought entered my mind the other night. How would Pro Circuit do if they became the official Suzuki 250 effort? Could Mitch ...more

tek14 wrote:

as soon as AMA allows them use KTM/Husky motors in Suzukis like MXGP teams did use.

TRUTH

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Current rides-
1988 RM250
2019 KX450

8/27/2018 1:07 PM

"if, if, if.. well if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle" - GL

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Positively, absolutely 110% obsessed with anything MOTO.

8/27/2018 2:11 PM

MrKnowNothing wrote:

A thought entered my mind the other night. How would Pro Circuit do if they became the official Suzuki 250 effort? Could Mitch ...more

tek14 wrote:

as soon as AMA allows them use KTM/Husky motors in Suzukis like MXGP teams did use.

You've lost your marbles hahaha!

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8/27/2018 2:35 PM

I have no doubt Mitch runs a tight program and can develop a bike, but think about the talent he's had first dibs on from the Team Green pipeline. Then think about the state of Suzuki's amateur "program". He'd have no chance to compete against KTM/Orange Brigade, Geico/Amsoil Honda, Star Yamaha, Rockstar Husky, etc., regardless of the equipment.

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8/27/2018 3:33 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/27/2018 3:33 PM

Let's assume Mitch - and PC - were as successful with a zook the next 10 years as they were the last 10

2018 - no titles
2017 - Justin Hill west sx
2016 - no titles
2015 - no titles
2014 - no titles
2013 - no titles
2012 - blake bagget outdoors
2011 - tickle sx, wilson ouotdoors
2010 - weimer, pourcel
2009 - pourcel sx
2008 - Villopoto outdoors

I think that is correct - 8titles in 30 tries

Since Geico went in house, and KTM has started full blast again with their 2013 bike, yamaha got their redesigned 2014 - it's been slim pickings.

I said it in another thread - but JGR is doing just fine. They are just restarting a long defunct program - that will take years to fully build up.
The bike is good enough for SX motor wise - believe it or not - being a full 10 percent off in the power department - isn't much when it comes to lap times for sx.

The zook needs the gsxr1000 design - and it would immediately be competitive.



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8/27/2018 3:40 PM

Derek Harris wrote:

Let's assume Mitch - and PC - were as successful with a zook the next 10 years as they were the last 10

2018 - no titles
2017 ...more

Derek correct me if i’m Wrong but i feel that Mitch got the jump on all the factory’s with the 4 stroke development when he hired the ex Indy car motor guy to do his engines and it was clear to everyone that Mitch’s bikes were the fastest.
Fast forward to what you mentioned about teams going full bottle and its another story and these results prove this in my eyes

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8/27/2018 4:04 PM

GrapeApe wrote:

I have no doubt Mitch runs a tight program and can develop a bike, but think about the talent he's had first dibs on from the ...more

It's not easy, but quick turnarounds do happen (mostly when DeCoster is involved).

1. Look at KTM when it picked up DeCoster and put a full fledged program together. They went from Alessi on a 350 to Dungey winning title after title and they had no amateur program.

2. Look at Star Yamaha. From nothing for years to JMart, Jmart, Webb, Plessinger.

3. Look at Suzuki's program back in early 2000's with DeCoster. They had one of the strongest amateur programs ever. Tomac, Roczen, Seely, Millsaps, Pastrana, and on and on all rode Suzuki as amateurs.

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8/27/2018 4:14 PM

Could it maybe be the rider pool/selection?

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vomiting equals disqualification.

8/27/2018 4:17 PM

ML512 wrote:

Huh? laughing

I think hes talking about suzuki teams in the gps were running KTM bottom ends and some other parts

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There are two kinds of people against dirt bikes, those who never tried and those who weren't good at them.

8/27/2018 4:23 PM

tek14 wrote:

as soon as AMA allows them use KTM/Husky motors in Suzukis like MXGP teams did use.

ML512 wrote:

Huh? laughing

Aussie_power_sports wrote:

I think hes talking about suzuki teams in the gps were running KTM bottom ends and some other parts

where did you get this info from..?

I remember reading about "the man" being heavily involved with the design on the RM motors back in the early days.
was all Suzuki production parts with trick TI parts and certain Coatings on mechanical components.

Never seen anything mentions about KTM parts.
If anything, KTM many years ago.. There 2 strokes had a lot of issues,

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8/27/2018 4:36 PM

I don't know about 4stroke but some 125 teams used a KTM engine, one for example was BUD racing in a kx frame

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8/27/2018 4:39 PM

I thought that was a Yamaha engine in a KX frame? There was a trick build with a KTM 125 engine in a highly modified CRF250 frame.

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vomiting equals disqualification.

8/27/2018 5:11 PM

Forget about Mitch, let Tyler run the SUZUKI program.

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8/27/2018 5:16 PM

Aussie_power_sports wrote:

I think hes talking about suzuki teams in the gps were running KTM bottom ends and some other parts

Using the plane bearing bottom end commonly found in a KTM isn't that uncommon, I've seen a few teams do it and as far as I'm aware, it's not illegal in the states if it can be used in modified stock cases.

What isn't legal by AMA rules but is legal by FIM/MXGP/MX2 is changing the stock bore and stroke, which I heard CLS was doing towards the end of their existence.

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8/27/2018 5:20 PM

tingo wrote:

Forget about Mitch, let Tyler run the SUZUKI program.

* SUSZUKI

LOL. Surprised he hasn't chimed in yet.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

8/27/2018 5:25 PM

Kawasaki and pro circuit are lifelong partners. Why would switching to a worse stock bike help make a better factory bike? That makes no sense. A year from now the current kx250 will have all the features of the 450 and the zook will be untouched. Seems like a step backwards.

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8/27/2018 5:25 PM

tingo wrote:

Forget about Mitch, let Tyler run the SUZUKI program.

Ezza for the design

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8/27/2018 6:22 PM

kb228 wrote:

Kawasaki and pro circuit are lifelong partners. Why would switching to a worse stock bike help make a better factory bike? ...more

Worked for Roger when he moved to KTM. That made the factory bike a lot better. Ofcourse that actually simultaneously proves your point about Suzuki

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8/27/2018 6:29 PM

kb228 wrote:

Kawasaki and pro circuit are lifelong partners. Why would switching to a worse stock bike help make a better factory bike? ...more

It's an hypothetical question not a literal one.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

8/27/2018 8:28 PM

ML512 wrote:

Huh? laughing

Aussie_power_sports wrote:

I think hes talking about suzuki teams in the gps were running KTM bottom ends and some other parts

ML512 wrote:

Using the plane bearing bottom end commonly found in a KTM isn't that uncommon, I've seen a few teams do it and as far as I'm ...more

Remember when pc blew up like every bike at the wick?

My sources at the time (not saying reliable) said that was when they were switching to a plain bearing rod

But if you can dream it up - ml is on the money - you can run it so long as oem castings (oem looking) are used along with stock bore and stroke

The rules are so vague - even stock cases is questionable when hrc ran their hydrualic clutches


My question for ML - ever dig more into the bud kx250f that had clear welding work and what looked like finger followers from a ktm installed?
That - would be quite the transformation

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8/28/2018 8:56 AM

kb228 wrote:

Kawasaki and pro circuit are lifelong partners. Why would switching to a worse stock bike help make a better factory bike? ...more

I’m not sure how many times or different ways we can explain this to you. The factory bikes are so far removed from what you ride in the D class it’s not even funny. Just because you put a set of Hotcams in your bike, please don’t pretend you know what goes into a full blown race Bike. You can take any top 10 rider in either class and put them on any current factory Bike and they would finish in the same spot as they do on their current team.

Your infatuation with Kawasaki and pessimistic outlook on anything other than a green bike is downright annoying.

You were already Kicked off Vital once, maybe the second time will be the charm.

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8/28/2018 9:12 AM

Derek Harris wrote:

Remember when pc blew up like every bike at the wick?

My sources at the time (not saying reliable) said that was when they ...more

I saw a few suggestions that was going on but talking to riders that rode it...there wasn't a ton of praise about the power and no hints that's what was really going on...so I didn't dig much further.

As for HRC with the hydro, it's a modified stock case.

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8/28/2018 10:03 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/28/2018 10:03 AM

Mitch has just had some bad luck. He has two of the most promising rookies on his team (Adam and Austin), but they have both had injuries.

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