People dropping from A to B class

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5/18/2015 3:57 PM

So does anyone know the rules for dropping from a to b class? I tried looking it up on the ama page but wasn't having much luck. I think I read awhile ago if you had a major injury and aren't competitive even in the lower class. Or you haven't raced for X amount of years. Or you have permission from the ama.

Anyway I checked the ama page today for results from yesterday's race, the one class I got 2nd in and noticed something about the the two people who finished 3rd and 4th. They both raced A class, one of them went back to 2013 for the last season raced which was A. The other went back to 2010 which was also A. Now 3rd and 4th still seem to be competitive to me.

I hate to be that guy, but should I say something either with the local promotors or with the ama?

Or should I just continue on and make them my targets for the rest of the season

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5/18/2015 3:59 PM

I say kill them with kindness.... and by that I mean kindly stuff them in the first corner you can devil tongue

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Never try to argue with idiots; they will only bring you down to their level.....and being more experienced, they will beat you at their own game!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

5/18/2015 4:04 PM

Keep beating them wink

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5/18/2015 4:07 PM

You beat them right? Sounds like they are in the right class. Or if you try to make a case that they should be promoted, how are you going to defend your own position in the B class?

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5/18/2015 4:14 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/18/2015 4:16 PM

NotCore wrote:

You beat them right? Sounds like they are in the right class. Or if you try to make a case that they should be promoted, how are you going to defend your own position in the B class?

Because I have never been advanced to A either through rpv or self advanced...

And it's not like I race until my rpv is right under the limit and stop. I did 17 races last year

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5/18/2015 4:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/18/2015 4:28 PM

If they race 2013 as an A class rider even it they self advanced they can't go back to B... even with a year off without an
appeal...

enter their name here below, is there a giant A or B when you click on their name? What ever it is that's what class they
are supposed to run...

http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/Riders

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Racing/Results/MXAdvancementAppeals.aspx


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Who Ever Dies With The Most Toys Wins...
No Point Waiting Till Then... Newman Wins





5/18/2015 4:24 PM

h&m_cycle wrote:

If they race 2013 as an A class rider even it they self advanced they can't go back to B... even with a year off without an
appeal...

enter their name here below, is there a giant A or B when you click on their name? What ever it is that's what class they
are supposed to run...

http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/Riders

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Racing/Results/MXAdvancementAppeals.aspx


I know that's a way around it, but from what I saw the one guy had about 8 years of racing and the only years that weren't listed were 2014. The other guy only had 2010 as a past season so both seem to be on the same ama card.

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5/18/2015 4:31 PM

h&m_cycle wrote:

If they race 2013 as an A class rider even it they self advanced they can't go back to B... even with a year off without an
appeal...

enter their name here below, is there a giant A or B when you click on their name? What ever it is that's what class they
are supposed to run...

http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/Riders

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Racing/Results/MXAdvancementAppeals.aspx


Thanks for that link. Didn't know it existed. Kinda cool to be able to look up my own stats.

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5/18/2015 4:35 PM

Here's Austin Forkners he's a B or Y, he has a 23 rpv way over the 15 but he can & will stay a B till after Lorettas

Just using as a example.. If you click on their name & there's a giant B their sandbagging...

http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/riders/1090-austin-forkner/results/motocross/2015

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Who Ever Dies With The Most Toys Wins...
No Point Waiting Till Then... Newman Wins





5/18/2015 4:37 PM

mx836 wrote:

Thanks for that link. Didn't know it existed. Kinda cool to be able to look up my own stats.

In the old days the AMA would send you a letter if your RPV hit 15.0 to move up.

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Who Ever Dies With The Most Toys Wins...
No Point Waiting Till Then... Newman Wins





5/18/2015 4:38 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/18/2015 4:42 PM

mx836 wrote:

Thanks for that link. Didn't know it existed. Kinda cool to be able to look up my own stats.

Be careful on that site, you may get lost for hours looking up races from around the country haha

Yes I know how the rpv scale works, wondering why they upped the rpv for c class from 11 to 15 this year

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5/18/2015 4:43 PM

See the B on Forkner? So if those 2 sandbaggers have an A where Forkners B is their cheating...



Home > Riders > Austin Forkner > Results > Motocross > 2015

MX
B
OR
Y
AUSTIN FORKNER - RICHARDS, MO
2015 MOTOCROSS RESULTS
Participation Points by Class
Class Points Races
250 B 207 9
Open B 154 7
Youth Advancement (12-16) 182 8
Combined Classes 43 2
RPV by Class
Class Points Races RPV
250 B 207 9 23.00
Open B 154 7 22.00
Youth Advancement (12-16) 182 8 22.75

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Who Ever Dies With The Most Toys Wins...
No Point Waiting Till Then... Newman Wins





5/18/2015 4:45 PM

h&m_cycle wrote:

If they race 2013 as an A class rider even it they self advanced they can't go back to B... even with a year off without an
appeal...

enter their name here below, is there a giant A or B when you click on their name? What ever it is that's what class they
are supposed to run...

http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/Riders

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Racing/Results/MXAdvancementAppeals.aspx


njracer46 wrote:

I know that's a way around it, but from what I saw the one guy had about 8 years of racing and the only years that weren't listed were 2014. The other guy only had 2010 as a past season so both seem to be on the same ama card.

I believe the rules also say that if you petition to move back down, you can only race in the lower division for a set amount of time/races/points. Unless the rules have changed, it is not supposed to be a permanent move.

Are you racing with them in a displacement class or an age class?

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5/18/2015 4:51 PM

mark_swart wrote:

I believe the rules also say that if you petition to move back down, you can only race in the lower division for a set amount of time/races/points. Unless the rules have changed, it is not supposed to be a permanent move.

Are you racing with them in a displacement class or an age class?

This is from +25 b

It does have a B on both of them, the one has 4 years of open and +25 A races up to 2013

So by the ama standards I could drop myself down to c, seems legit..

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5/18/2015 5:05 PM

That happened already, he raced plus 25. I think he was trying to qualify in pro sport to but had some bad luck. Not sure if he did actually qualify or just didn't want to race it.

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5/18/2015 5:05 PM

Just move yourself to A and you won't have to worry about any of that...
Personally I wish they didn't have skill divisions in plus classes, the turnouts are bad as it is already. It's not uncommon for +30A to have only 1 or 2 guys around here... sad

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5/18/2015 5:07 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/18/2015 5:08 PM

So the guys you beat were sandbagging, but you weren't? Brilliant line of thinking there.

This is what kills me about amateur racing. Everyone gets so caught up in the letter designations that they forget to apply any common sense to the situation.

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5/18/2015 5:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/18/2015 5:13 PM

It happened
Ricky got the title after retiring won all his motos in 2012 plus 25 class...

Never mind I saw you mentioned this already...

http://llvault.racerxonline.com/rider/ricky-carmichael-1/races



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Who Ever Dies With The Most Toys Wins...
No Point Waiting Till Then... Newman Wins





5/18/2015 5:14 PM

To get back on topic, I didn't start this thread to say these two guys were sand bagging winning every race in site. More of a question if it was actually legal.

Mr. X raced A class for 4 years and was sick of getting stomped on, so decided to drop back down to B. I know when I use to race hare scrambles once you signed up for a higher class, you were there for life. Just seems like the ama encourages this type of stuff for mx racing. Dropping back down classes, appealing advancement, seems like a perfect way to screw the system and make your trophy case a little bigger.

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5/18/2015 5:20 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/18/2015 5:20 PM

njracer46 wrote:

To get back on topic, I didn't start this thread to say these two guys were sand bagging winning every race in site. More of a question if it was actually legal.

Mr. X raced A class for 4 years and was sick of getting stomped on, so decided to drop back down to B. I know when I use to race hare scrambles once you signed up for a higher class, you were there for life. Just seems like the ama encourages this type of stuff for mx racing. Dropping back down classes, appealing advancement, seems like a perfect way to screw the system and make your trophy case a little bigger.

The only thing I can think of he must of been bad @ A class & Had a RPV. of 0

under the radar... of the ama...

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Who Ever Dies With The Most Toys Wins...
No Point Waiting Till Then... Newman Wins





5/18/2015 5:22 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/18/2015 5:23 PM

SPYGUY wrote:

So the guys you beat were sandbagging, but you weren't? Brilliant line of thinking there.

This is what kills me about amateur racing. Everyone gets so caught up in the letter designations that they forget to apply any common sense to the situation.

Once again, I have never been advanced or raced A class. These two have, how am I a sand bagger? Because I beat them in a race?

Once again to clear it up for you, the guy raced A class in 2013 and now races B class.

This is not 250 B at a regional qualifier, this is a local race in +25 B. I don't think I could make it past a qualifier in the regular B class. I would not consider my self a sand bagger at all.

@ ti473, I know what you mean. Here are some numbers from this weekend.

+25 b had 17 riders in it, + 25 A had 2 riders in it

250 b had over 20 riders, 250 A had 4

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5/18/2015 5:25 PM

njracer46 wrote:

To get back on topic, I didn't start this thread to say these two guys were sand bagging winning every race in site. More of a question if it was actually legal.

Mr. X raced A class for 4 years and was sick of getting stomped on, so decided to drop back down to B. I know when I use to race hare scrambles once you signed up for a higher class, you were there for life. Just seems like the ama encourages this type of stuff for mx racing. Dropping back down classes, appealing advancement, seems like a perfect way to screw the system and make your trophy case a little bigger.

Well, you never know, there could be some back-story with those guys- injuries, other problems, who knows. Given that it is an age class, I wouldn't be super concerned. And if they start winning a lot they will point back up. If it were really a developmental class I would see it as more of an issue.

I think you should just take pride in the fact you beat some former A riders!

It's a weird gap between B and A in the + classes, because most of us aren't going to get any faster as we get old. I'm a perfect example, I do pretty well in +30 B, but the +30 A guys are on a whole different level that I will never have the talent or seat time to get to.


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5/18/2015 5:26 PM

"local race in +25 B"

Okay, there you go, problem solved. Doesn't matter.

To answer your question, no it's not legal. But it's not a big deal so it doesn't matter.

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5/18/2015 5:46 PM

Grizz wrote:

"local race in +25 B"

Okay, there you go, problem solved. Doesn't matter.

To answer your question, no it's not legal. But it's not a big deal so it doesn't matter.

It is what it is, just found it weird that there were a few guys in my class that raced A class within the past few years.

But by your logic just because it's local racing means that you can race whatever you feel like. Should I cancel my ama and sign up for C class at the next race because it doesn't matter?

Personally I feel like they should drop the letters and just have all age classes, as long as two open classes for any age, just split by displacement.

I should have said people who drop from a to b class, not sand baggers.

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5/18/2015 6:11 PM

I thought you had to petition the AMA to move down a class. The only except I've heard (haven't checked the rules tho) is you can drop from an A class to an B class provided you also drop down in age category e.g. 35+A can race in 25+B. Again, I haven't checked this.

Cheers
Simon

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5/18/2015 6:19 PM

njracer46 wrote:

To get back on topic, I didn't start this thread to say these two guys were sand bagging winning every race in site. More of a question if it was actually legal.

Mr. X raced A class for 4 years and was sick of getting stomped on, so decided to drop back down to B. I know when I use to race hare scrambles once you signed up for a higher class, you were there for life. Just seems like the ama encourages this type of stuff for mx racing. Dropping back down classes, appealing advancement, seems like a perfect way to screw the system and make your trophy case a little bigger.

h&m_cycle wrote:

The only thing I can think of he must of been bad @ A class & Had a RPV. of 0

under the radar... of the ama...

All I know is that I have a weird desire to pursue archery.... for some reason whistling tongue

|

Never try to argue with idiots; they will only bring you down to their level.....and being more experienced, they will beat you at their own game!

2020.5 KTM 450 SXF FE
2006 KX250

5/18/2015 7:04 PM

h&m_cycle wrote:

If they race 2013 as an A class rider even it they self advanced they can't go back to B... even with a year off without an
appeal...

enter their name here below, is there a giant A or B when you click on their name? What ever it is that's what class they
are supposed to run...

http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/Riders

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Racing/Results/MXAdvancementAppeals.aspx


Tom Ferguson District 16 WI

The system is flawed.

http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/riders/36034-tom-ferguson/results/motocross/2014

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5/18/2015 7:32 PM

njracer46 wrote:

This is from +25 b

It does have a B on both of them, the one has 4 years of open and +25 A races up to 2013

So by the ama standards I could drop myself down to c, seems legit..

You might as well drop down to C class with the way you are whining about who should and shouldn't be in B class you would fit right in.wink

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Ed Johnson

5/18/2015 8:12 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/18/2015 8:13 PM

h&m_cycle wrote:

If they race 2013 as an A class rider even it they self advanced they can't go back to B... even with a year off without an
appeal...

enter their name here below, is there a giant A or B when you click on their name? What ever it is that's what class they
are supposed to run...

http://results.americanmotorcyclist.com/Riders

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Racing/Results/MXAdvancementAppeals.aspx


I looked back to 2008, He self advanced himself to A on 8/24/2008...

He bounces around between A+ 25, A+30, A+35, B+35, B+40 and a couple others... VET A also...

races mostly @ Aztalan, I see MOST of the time the district doesn't give him any points, when dropping down to (B class, which

shouldn't be a problem, as long as it's not any type of national qualifier... Racing in B not receiving any points is one thing, they

shouldn't be giving the B class trophies though to him, (taking away from true B riders)...

Biggest mistake I saw was Millville, he got a 3rd overall & there had to be quite a few bikes because he received 18 points.

Millville must be out of another district other then district 16 for him to receive points...

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Who Ever Dies With The Most Toys Wins...
No Point Waiting Till Then... Newman Wins





5/18/2015 9:04 PM

I haven't raced in over 6 years, can I drop down a class?

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