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Johnny Depp
2/13/2018 5:55am
2/13/2018 5:55am
Is is the promoter's or the entrants who desire so many choices? It seems to only get bigger, never smaller.
If you are a spectator, what is the right mix?
If you are a entrant, when there is a new series, is "what are the classes?" the 1st question?
What method should determine when a new class is justified?
If you are a spectator, what is the right mix?
If you are a entrant, when there is a new series, is "what are the classes?" the 1st question?
What method should determine when a new class is justified?
In SX I wish there were the top 40 in the country going for 1 title on 1 size bike....preferably 250’s. There are 40 guys in the night show that have no business being in front of paying customers
The Shop
The bajillion classes is one of the main reasons a lot of us don’t race the district. The day is stupid long. It’s nice when they split the Youth to their own day and big bikes the other day.
For specialized series for Youth or Vets, sure go crazy with a bunch of classes.
How many of the classes where you go have a full gate?
As for one +30 class....as an aging rider, let me tell you there are very valid performance reasons for +30, +40 and +50. The decline is real. BUT I could accept a single skill level for the age classes as opposed to A, B and C.
I know this is a blow to most riders ego but... you guys aren't in shape to race 15 minutes twice in a day after a 10 minute AM practice.
However, promoters would have to cut down on class numbers. Which would cause them to raise prices on entries. And if I had a dollar for every time someone on here bitched about how expensive our sport is, I could pay for everyone to race.
If they converted that format to racing, probably go with A, B, C, Vets and kids. Run any size bike in each class (except kids). Maybe split the four classes into morning for a couple groups, then afternoons for the other groups. Scheduling Vets and kids for the mornings would free up the second half of the day for that family (usually Dad and son) to leave and go fishing or something else, and the faster riders would have a rougher challenging track ready.
For the simple fact that I want as much track time as possible. Im there to race. And I have the conditioning.
Wouldn’t kill me if there were less classes tho. And it could be done if there was a system that forced people up into their proper class. There’s no reason to have C, Beginner, and 1st Timer classes all on the same day. That’s one class split 3 ways.
Give me a proper C class and a Vet 30+ and Im happy.
If I was a local promoter it’d look like this... cant really get it below 18 classes.
50cc (4t)
50cc (2t)
65cc
85cc
105cc
112cc (2t) / 150cc (4t)
125cc
250cc C (beginner)
350cc B (intermediate)
500cc B (intermediate)
500cc A (expert)
500cc ProAm (100% payback)
500cc V (veteran) 30+
500cc V (veteran) 40+
500cc V (veteran) 50+
Vintage 70s
Vintage 80s
Vintage 90s
For instance, the last time I raced there were 5 riders. Two 35+ Intermediates, a 45+ Novice, a 15+ Novice, and me - 30+ Novice. The intermediate guys jumped out to a good lead and I smoked the 45 Novice guy and I was catching the second 35+ intermediate guy. No matter what you're always going to race against similar level competition, no show up and be the only person in your class. It really pushes you and you get to race a lot of different people in situations that matter.
A track could adopt this and have a year end grand champion which all riders are eligible for, the caveat is that Expert riders get more points than intermediate, and novice. Basically its a self regulating sandbagger policy for the most part.
Tennis in Europe has a unique system as well that is incredibly effective (everyone of same age is in the same tournament bracket, higher ranked players get byes so that lower ranked players get a few matches against like competition, netter players are afraid to sandbag in that they run a high chance of getting knocked out early/upset).
The guys I rode with back in my younger "whipper-snapper" days had dads that talked about how mx was in the mid 70s - mid 80s. They said basically there was 100 - 125 - 250 - 500 classes with Amateur and Pro divisions in addition to minicycle classes. IMO I think it would be a better program if we had that same format now. Maybe a true Beginner class for Minis and Big bikes with a 5 - 10 race limit then you're amateur.
50 - 65 - 80 - Supermini - 125 - 250 (Pro & AM) - 450 (Pro & AM) - Mini Beg A for 50/65s - Mini Beg B for 85s/100s - +30 , +40 something along those lines.
I always wish Loretta's would bring back a Vet Am class but at the same time it doesn't really matter, it would mean making it to the regional is that much more important to a regular Joe like myself. I do hate seeing 6 damn C classes!!!
Your post hits the nail on the head, and validates my thoughts.
I'm working on a format that I am hesitant to discuss too much at this point. It's objectives are more seat time, closer competition, full gates with oversize classes, and 4 hours of racing with 1 hour allocated per class, So A/B/C/D.
Discuss?
Pit Row
How do we fix those two issues? Not easily, that's for sure...
Entered a tournament. Naturally in the 3.0 division. Made it to the final and went up against a clown who was a 4.5 at worst.
Then you got the jerkoffs who go to the National Chapionships, they either win or runner up. That typically will automatically bump them up a division. Then they stop playing and just train for 2 years so they can drop back down to 3.0
And the USTA cant figure out why numbers keep dropping.
Worst sandbagging I’ve ever experienced was in tennis. Totally sucked for the people who played fair. Cause I ended up going nuts 6-days-a-week playing/training for the next tournament. Tried entering 4.0 or 3.5 cause (a) that was more my level and (b) there seemed to be less sandbagging the higher the division. Promoter wouldnt let me enter above my ranking. So I ended up destroying the 3.0 field. All my opponents felt like they got screwed.
The domino effect in full swing.
Perhaps you could run the A and B together, run C by itself because its usually the biggest class (around these parts atleast), run D and the Vet Class. It would basically give everyone a person to battle with. Aim for gates of 30 riders? Something fresh would be great.
Promoter: yup.
Otherwise no full gate or minimum number of riders the n...Nope.
Cut classes that don’t have 5 show up. Offer all them. But if you don’t get minimum number refund it. Cut the class. Shorten the day. I go to the sign up window and I’m like hey how many does 30 have signed up? Lady says: 2. I’m like gay. Not racing that class. What’s 25+ got ? Lady goes 2. Gay. Not racing that. So then I ask what’s the biggest class? Lady goes 7. Gay. I’m leaving. Who the fuck wants to race 7 people? I want to race a ton of people. State of moto sucks if you ain’t chasing Loretta’s. Local mostly sucks.
Gotta pick and choose awesome events....like....redbud vetfest. 20-40 in every class. Fast dudes too. fast running program. Done by 2pm. Home to Ohio before sundown. That’s how ya do it folks.
I agree, I want to be on a gate with 15+ people at the minimum. With 2-4 guys you're probably just going to ride around by yourself...that's no fun. The way you explained it is the way BMX does it. If enough don't show up to form a legal class they cut it and bump you and other people into a group until the minimum is met across all classes.
Last time I raced I was the only person in my class. They ran me with Open C/D and school boy. 6 of us on the gate. Pitiful...absolutely pitiful. I hope to do one of those Vet Festival Races this year, maybe the Davey Coombs HC race, that would be great.
Last spring I was watching a 250C moto and a kid fell a few turns in, he went from 20th to 4th in 5 laps. He was definitely a Loretta's hopeful and you could clearly see that he was the Eli Tomac of the C class that day.
When I moved to Georgia I was 25 and considered myself a C rider. My buddies were B riders from Wisconsin and told me they had been moved out of C class to B class and their district did a good job of policing this. They basically told me that I probably would have been moved to B class as well which is something I would have never done on my own considering I had never gotten better than 3rd out of 7 in a C class race.
I'm all for having a full gate, shorter program, less complication, more fun...
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