How many Pro dirt bike series have been won by 2-strokes in the last 5 years?

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10/28/2017 10:32 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/28/2017 12:34 PM

When the rules have been opened up to allow 2 & 4 strokes to go head to head where have they had success? This would include off road too, let's get a feel for where they work best. I'm not that up on Canada and Australia MX series, but I'm pretty sure they compete well there. Post up photos if you can and name the series, rider, bike etc.


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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 10:35 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/28/2017 10:56 AM

Kaven Benoit 250 Canadian champ in 2014 and 2015. KTM 250sx.

In 2014 engine modifications were allowed. After he won the title the rules changed and for 2015 the only modifications allowed were a pipe & silencer.

2014 KTM 250sx & Title

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2015 Title

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Pics of both years

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/28/2017 10:42 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Kaven Benoit 250 Canadian champ in 2014 and 2015. KTM 250sx.

In 2014 engine modifications were allowed. After he won the title the rules changed and for 2015 the only modifications allowed were a pipe & silencer.

2014 KTM 250sx & Title

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2015 Title

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Pics of both years

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2014 he was on both a 250 and 250f.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

10/28/2017 11:01 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/28/2017 11:01 AM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Kaven Benoit 250 Canadian champ in 2014 and 2015. KTM 250sx.

In 2014 engine modifications were allowed. After he won the title the rules changed and for 2015 the only modifications allowed were a pipe & silencer.

2014 KTM 250sx & Title

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2015 Title

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Pics of both years

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Photo Photo
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BobPA wrote:

2014 he was on both a 250 and 250f.

He rode a couple rounds out West on the 250f then switched to the 250sx. He rode more rounds on the two stroke. After he won the title the rules were changed. For 2015 whichever bike you started the series with is the one you had to ride all year.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/28/2017 11:13 AM

Egan Mastin won the 2017 MX2/250 Australian MX National title on a KTM 250sx.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/28/2017 11:13 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/28/2017 11:15 AM

GNCC XC2
2014 Grant Baylor
2015 Jason Thomas

I had to google this stuff up because I really didn't know? There are others if you go back further.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 11:23 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/28/2017 11:25 AM

Not a title but I know a 250 2 stroke won the last round of the EMX250 series this year. The bike was also torn down due to a protest I believe lol

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10/28/2017 12:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/28/2017 12:22 PM

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10/28/2017 12:19 PM

J-Day Off-road - Pro Champ

2012- Jonathan Girroir - YZ250
2013- Jonathan Girroir - KTM 300
2014- Robby Marshall - KTM 250 SX
2015- Jonathan Girroir - KTM 300
2016- Jonathan Girroir - KTM 300
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10/28/2017 12:20 PM

Endurocross

2104 Cody Webb Beta 300
2015 Cody Webb KTM 300

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 12:24 PM

So are these guys in Canada and Australia racing 250 2 strokes in the 250 class or 450 class?

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10/28/2017 12:40 PM

pmshortt2 wrote:

So are these guys in Canada and Australia racing 250 2 strokes in the 250 class or 450 class?

250's. I don't know of any MX races where 2t's have won against 450 4t's? It would be cool if someone knows of it? I'd guess something more than 300cc's is gonna be needed.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 12:49 PM

Interesting how the sanctioning bodies create a rule to handicap the 2 stroke, to create a "level playing field".

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10/28/2017 12:58 PM

Best thread in awhile!

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10/28/2017 1:12 PM

pmshortt2 wrote:

So are these guys in Canada and Australia racing 250 2 strokes in the 250 class or 450 class?

Johnny Depp wrote:

250's. I don't know of any MX races where 2t's have won against 450 4t's? It would be cool if someone knows of it? I'd guess something more than 300cc's is gonna be needed.

My guess would be the early-mid 2000's was the last time a 250t won againt the 450's at the professional level.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/28/2017 1:20 PM

Two strokes riders have won a bunch at the Erzberg Rodeo over the years.

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"Sorry Goose, but it's time to buzz the tower."

10/28/2017 1:48 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Two strokes riders have won a bunch at the Erzberg Rodeo over the years.

I was going to say, the hard enduro stuff is dominated by two strokes.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

10/28/2017 1:56 PM

-MAVERICK- wrote:

My guess would be the early-mid 2000's was the last time a 250t won againt the 450's at the professional level.

I would be guessing when bubba was winning on the kx250.

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There are two kinds of people against dirt bikes, those who never tried and those who weren't good at them.

10/28/2017 2:28 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/28/2017 4:52 PM

In EnduroGP this was the 1st (and now only) year they competed head to head all cc's and they are changing the rules back next year (after getting dominated wink ) . They will go back to 3 classes instead of 2 so there will be more participants (and Championships) to go around.

It's actually kinda hard to find the info on 2t /4t for all the classes, they only list manufacturers. The E3 (open) class has not been won by a 4t in the last 7 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Enduro_Championship

EnduroGP

2017 Steve Holcombe Beta 300

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E3

2016 Steve Holcombe Beta 300

2015 Mathias Bellino Husqvarna 300

2014 Matthew Phillips KTM 300

2013 Christophe Nambotin KTM 300


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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 2:38 PM

Graham Jarvis and Johny Walker extreme enduro championship series last 5 or 7 years.

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10/28/2017 2:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/28/2017 2:42 PM

Egan Mastin is the first rider to win on a 2T in Australia since 2Ts were allowed back in to the 250/MX2 class.

The initial restrictions on engine work were relaxed last year (or the year before) as it was clear they weren't dominating.

Edit. The AUS MX1 class is 250 and up 2 or 4T. Just waiting for someone to line up on a 500!

As a general rule, the manufacturers want there riders on 4Ts and come up with gentle ways of persuasion to make it happen. Privateers that do well on a 2T, the following year gush about how good it is to be back on a 250f etc.

So it all comes back to the rider funnily enough....

It allows guys that just want to race a way to have a competitive bike without spending huge dollars. The teams continue usually to take titles and along the way give up a few podiums to the privateers.

The MX2 class here in Aus would have struggled with numbers if the rules hadnt changed.

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10/28/2017 2:40 PM

Daniel Sanders won the Australian Off Road Championship on a 300 2T, last year after years of 4T domination.

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10/28/2017 3:01 PM

pmshortt2 wrote:

So are these guys in Canada and Australia racing 250 2 strokes in the 250 class or 450 class?

Johnny Depp wrote:

250's. I don't know of any MX races where 2t's have won against 450 4t's? It would be cool if someone knows of it? I'd guess something more than 300cc's is gonna be needed.

-MAVERICK- wrote:

My guess would be the early-mid 2000's was the last time a 250t won againt the 450's at the professional level.

RC in SX 2005 on the Suzuki and outdoors on the Honda in 2003

https://motocrossactionmag.com/the-last-two-stroke-to-win-a-championship/

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Rider

2013
K Ryan VILLOPOTO (USA), Kawasaki KX450F
2012
K Ryan DUNGEY (USA), KTM 450SX-F
2011
K Ryan VILLOPOTO (USA), Kawasaki KX450F
2010
S Ryan DUNGEY (USA), Suzuki RMZ450
2009
S Chad REED (AUS), Suzuki RMZ450
2008
K James STEWART (USA), Kawasaki KX450F
2007
Y Grant LANGSTON (SAF), Yamaha YZ450F
2006
S Ricky CARMICHAEL (USA), Suzuki RMZ450
2005
S Ricky CARMICHAEL (USA), Suzuki RMZ450
2004
H Ricky CARMICHAEL (USA), Honda CRF450
2003
H Ricky CARMICHAEL (USA), Honda CR250
2002
H Ricky CARMICHAEL (USA), Honda CR250
2001
K Ricky CARMICHAEL (USA), Kawasaki KX250
2000
K Ricky CARMICHAEL (USA), Kawasaki KX250
1999
S Greg ALBERTYN (SAF), Suzuki RM250

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 3:14 PM

endurox wrote:

Graham Jarvis and Johny Walker extreme enduro championship series last 5 or 7 years.

Is it really a championship? It seems like a bunch of stand alone events? Yes 2 strokes dominate when you have to frequently lift your bike, very few 4t's even bother.

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 3:20 PM

The only two 4 Strokes to win at Romaniacs since 2004 were 2008 on a Sherco 450 and 2009 on a BMW G450X.

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10/28/2017 5:00 PM

Rory Mead won the overall at The Mammoth and Snowshoe GNCCs in 2012 on a KTM 300. Don’t have any photos handy though.

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Jared Bolton
gnccracing.com

10/28/2017 5:20 PM

The end of the 250 two stroke winning in SX coincided with the elimination of them being able to run leaded fuel. RC said as much back at the time. They were holding their own against the 450's of the day and probably still could today if they had continued development of them just as they've continued to improve the 450's. Allowing them to run a proper racing fuel as they do the four strokes would also be important. The AMA really staked the deck against the 250 two strokes in SX and took aware their championship potential in that racing series.

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10/28/2017 5:30 PM

In the EnduroGP Junior class where there is parity, there have been 2 wins by 2 strokes:

2014 Daniel McKanney Beta 250
2017 Brad Freeman Beta 250

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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 5:45 PM

In EnduroGP, KTM and Husky were most likely the sore losers, and have planned to pull out of the series, it appears that this rule was made to suit them? Kind of strange, since most feel they are 2 stroke builders and would not have a bias?

New for 2018

Enduro 1 (E1): Up to 250cc 2 stroke and 4 stroke
 Enduro 2 (E2): 250+ cc 4 stroke up to 450cc 4 stroke (no 2 strokes?)
 Enduro 3 (E3): 250+ cc 2 stroke and 450+ cc 4 stroke

2017
EnduroGP: Over 250cc - 2 or 4 stroke
Enduro 2: Up to 250cc - 2 or 4 stroke


2004-2016

Enduro 1 (E1) – 100 to 125 cc 2-stroke or 175 - 250 cc 4-stroke
Enduro 2 (E2) – 175 to 250 cc 2-stroke or 290 - 450 cc 4-stroke
Enduro 3 (E3) – 290 to 500 cc 2-stroke or 475 - 650 cc 4-stroke


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2015 Beta 500 RS, history: 99 KTM 300, 87 CR250, 84 KLR 600, 82 GPZ 550, 81 KX 250, 80 KX 250, 79 Montesa 414 VE, 78 250 VB, 77 360 VB, 76 360 VA, 75 YZ 125, 74 TM 125, 72 TS 125, 60's West Bend Go Boy Kart

10/28/2017 9:41 PM

Ferro wrote:

Egan Mastin is the first rider to win on a 2T in Australia since 2Ts were allowed back in to the 250/MX2 class.

The initial restrictions on engine work were relaxed last year (or the year before) as it was clear they weren't dominating.

Edit. The AUS MX1 class is 250 and up 2 or 4T. Just waiting for someone to line up on a 500!

As a general rule, the manufacturers want there riders on 4Ts and come up with gentle ways of persuasion to make it happen. Privateers that do well on a 2T, the following year gush about how good it is to be back on a 250f etc.

So it all comes back to the rider funnily enough....

It allows guys that just want to race a way to have a competitive bike without spending huge dollars. The teams continue usually to take titles and along the way give up a few podiums to the privateers.

The MX2 class here in Aus would have struggled with numbers if the rules hadnt changed.

Kale Makenham one the Development sx class years back on one I think

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