How long can Suzuki survive?

Phillip_Lamb
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Phillip_Lamb
Edited Date/Time 6/23/2018 1:50pm
since 2005 the rmz450 has really only seen the chassis get fine tuned and efi added. there is no denying that its a good chassis but everyone else has added electric starters and lost weight.

same goes for the 250.

after 2019 and everyone else making huge steps ahead can suzuki keep going without any major overhaul all but the chassis?

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BobPA
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BobPA 6/21/2018 10:50am
6/21/2018 10:50am
Being able to buy leftovers for $5500 will help them sell every unit, just not in a timely manner.
GregDVT
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GregDVT 6/21/2018 10:55am
6/21/2018 10:55am
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
since 2005 the rmz450 has really only seen the chassis get fine tuned and efi added. there is no denying that its a good chassis but...
since 2005 the rmz450 has really only seen the chassis get fine tuned and efi added. there is no denying that its a good chassis but everyone else has added electric starters and lost weight.

same goes for the 250.

after 2019 and everyone else making huge steps ahead can suzuki keep going without any major overhaul all but the chassis?

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. How many championships do they have on this platform?
GregDVT
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GregDVT 6/21/2018 10:58am
6/21/2018 10:58am
Hell if the the current Rmz had kyb spring suspension I’d buy one quicker than Tyler can respond to this Suzuki thread.
motosmith
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motosmith 6/21/2018 11:01am
6/21/2018 11:01am
Local shop in the Washougal area quit carrying Suzuki's. The sales guy said they sat on the floor too long.

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BR8ES
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BR8ES 6/21/2018 11:01am
6/21/2018 11:01am
TYLER SAIDED TO ME SUSZUKI IS THE BESTED AND FASTIST IN TEXAS AND MABE THE WURLD
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/21/2018 11:02am
6/21/2018 11:02am
They are a huge company. MX bikes are barely a blip on their spreadsheet.
BR8ES
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BR8ES 6/21/2018 11:03am
6/21/2018 11:03am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2018 11:04am
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side of Suzuki Co.?
2WheelsForTheMasses 6/21/2018 11:09am
6/21/2018 11:09am
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
since 2005 the rmz450 has really only seen the chassis get fine tuned and efi added. there is no denying that its a good chassis but...
since 2005 the rmz450 has really only seen the chassis get fine tuned and efi added. there is no denying that its a good chassis but everyone else has added electric starters and lost weight.

same goes for the 250.

after 2019 and everyone else making huge steps ahead can suzuki keep going without any major overhaul all but the chassis?

Just dumb!!!!

Explain huge steps?

Fyi Suzuki didn't have to make much changes over the years.
40acres
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40acres 6/21/2018 11:11am
6/21/2018 11:11am
BR8ES wrote:
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side...
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side of Suzuki Co.?
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up costing a ton in flooring/interest charges each month.

But, Suzuki isn't going anywhere. Like mentioned above, they're a massive company with a very broad portfolio.
kb228
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kb228 6/21/2018 11:15am
6/21/2018 11:15am
As long as gixxer bros keep riding around with no helmet, shorts, tshirt, and tennis shoes theyll be around forever.
BR8ES
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BR8ES 6/21/2018 11:15am
6/21/2018 11:15am
BR8ES wrote:
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side...
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side of Suzuki Co.?
40acres wrote:
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up...
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up costing a ton in flooring/interest charges each month.

But, Suzuki isn't going anywhere. Like mentioned above, they're a massive company with a very broad portfolio.
then the dealers fold or kick Suzuki to the curb right? If the dealers aren't there, then bikes don't sell at any price. But yes, Suzuki as a corporation is just fine.
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Johnny Depp 6/21/2018 11:24am
6/21/2018 11:24am
BR8ES wrote:
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side...
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side of Suzuki Co.?
40acres wrote:
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up...
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up costing a ton in flooring/interest charges each month.

But, Suzuki isn't going anywhere. Like mentioned above, they're a massive company with a very broad portfolio.
BR8ES wrote:
then the dealers fold or kick Suzuki to the curb right? If the dealers aren't there, then bikes don't sell at any price. But yes, Suzuki...
then the dealers fold or kick Suzuki to the curb right? If the dealers aren't there, then bikes don't sell at any price. But yes, Suzuki as a corporation is just fine.
You may have noticed the Tesla business model, with no inventory on hand. Currently many state laws protect the franchise system, as online purchases become a bigger part of our daily life's, I would expect that status quo to be challenged in the future.
BR8ES
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BR8ES 6/21/2018 11:29am
6/21/2018 11:29am
40acres wrote:
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up...
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up costing a ton in flooring/interest charges each month.

But, Suzuki isn't going anywhere. Like mentioned above, they're a massive company with a very broad portfolio.
BR8ES wrote:
then the dealers fold or kick Suzuki to the curb right? If the dealers aren't there, then bikes don't sell at any price. But yes, Suzuki...
then the dealers fold or kick Suzuki to the curb right? If the dealers aren't there, then bikes don't sell at any price. But yes, Suzuki as a corporation is just fine.
Johnny Depp wrote:
You may have noticed the Tesla business model, with no inventory on hand. Currently many state laws protect the franchise system, as online purchases become a...
You may have noticed the Tesla business model, with no inventory on hand. Currently many state laws protect the franchise system, as online purchases become a bigger part of our daily life's, I would expect that status quo to be challenged in the future.
maybe so, but you know how it goes... MXers are visual creatures, without a local or regional/national presence, who is going to buy them down the line?
Phillip_Lamb
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Phillip_Lamb 6/21/2018 12:19pm
6/21/2018 12:19pm
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
since 2005 the rmz450 has really only seen the chassis get fine tuned and efi added. there is no denying that its a good chassis but...
since 2005 the rmz450 has really only seen the chassis get fine tuned and efi added. there is no denying that its a good chassis but everyone else has added electric starters and lost weight.

same goes for the 250.

after 2019 and everyone else making huge steps ahead can suzuki keep going without any major overhaul all but the chassis?

2WheelsForTheMasses wrote:
Just dumb!!!!

Explain huge steps?

Fyi Suzuki didn't have to make much changes over the years.
Dont get me wrong i love suzuki's i've had 10 of them since 2002 in all sizes. suzuki obviously has one the most well put together chassis as evident by garnering a majority of the 450mx titles since 2005.

but KTM has set the standard as to what they need be moving towards in terms of features, weight and reliability. this is evident by Honda yamaha and kawasaki adding features that were only on KTM before. electric starting, finger follower valves, hydro clutch and special edition models.

(though i would give kudos to yamaha for really taking chances in engine performance and reliability and really doing to most to keep stride with KTM)

if anything, they could get away with the current power and features in both the 250 and 450 if they lost about 10+ lbs, heck if they just made a switch to the KTM TB they would have a power boost.
HusqFan3
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HusqFan3 6/21/2018 12:36pm
6/21/2018 12:36pm
BR8ES wrote:
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side...
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side of Suzuki Co.?
40acres wrote:
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up...
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up costing a ton in flooring/interest charges each month.

But, Suzuki isn't going anywhere. Like mentioned above, they're a massive company with a very broad portfolio.
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division.

And i don’t buy the argument that only dealers suffer since all the bikes sitting on the showroom floor are sold inventory from the factories perspective. That may work for a year or two but what do you think happens when it comes time to reorder? Unless this industry somehow differs from every other, retailers/dealers only order what they’re confident they can sell.
40acres
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40acres 6/21/2018 12:46pm
6/21/2018 12:46pm
HusqFan3 wrote:
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division. And i don’t...
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division.

And i don’t buy the argument that only dealers suffer since all the bikes sitting on the showroom floor are sold inventory from the factories perspective. That may work for a year or two but what do you think happens when it comes time to reorder? Unless this industry somehow differs from every other, retailers/dealers only order what they’re confident they can sell.
It's easy, reorder the new model year and slash the shit out of the previous year model. It helps dealers liquidate and the cheapskate moto bros can get their great deals on leftovers. Did it for years when I was in the industry ordering bikes. Don't buy the notion if you don't want to, but it's happening and has been since, like, forever.

And when you start turning in goose eggs on your order form you aren't going to be around long. And those goose eggs reflect the dealer much more than a manufacturer.

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HusqFan3
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HusqFan3 6/21/2018 1:26pm
6/21/2018 1:26pm
HusqFan3 wrote:
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division. And i don’t...
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division.

And i don’t buy the argument that only dealers suffer since all the bikes sitting on the showroom floor are sold inventory from the factories perspective. That may work for a year or two but what do you think happens when it comes time to reorder? Unless this industry somehow differs from every other, retailers/dealers only order what they’re confident they can sell.
40acres wrote:
It's easy, reorder the new model year and slash the shit out of the previous year model. It helps dealers liquidate and the cheapskate moto bros...
It's easy, reorder the new model year and slash the shit out of the previous year model. It helps dealers liquidate and the cheapskate moto bros can get their great deals on leftovers. Did it for years when I was in the industry ordering bikes. Don't buy the notion if you don't want to, but it's happening and has been since, like, forever.

And when you start turning in goose eggs on your order form you aren't going to be around long. And those goose eggs reflect the dealer much more than a manufacturer.
Of course dealers slash prices to liquidate inventory but only out of necessity/desperation not as an actual sales strategy planned ahead of time. At least, not unless they’re in the business out of the kindness of their hearts and not concerned with turning a profit since liquidiating inventory often requires prices to be set at or below cost.

Again, I’m not saying this doesn’t happen I’m saying it’s not a long term winning strategy as dealers will adjust future orders to optimize for profitability. i.e. order less of what isn’t selling and more of what is...
NorCal 50+
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NorCal 50+ 6/21/2018 1:33pm
6/21/2018 1:33pm
BR8ES wrote:
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side...
they may sell units at 5500 bucks, but I can't help but think that isn't exactly big profits. Maybe the MX bikes are the UNICEF side of Suzuki Co.?
40acres wrote:
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up...
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up costing a ton in flooring/interest charges each month.

But, Suzuki isn't going anywhere. Like mentioned above, they're a massive company with a very broad portfolio.
HusqFan3 wrote:
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division. And i don’t...
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division.

And i don’t buy the argument that only dealers suffer since all the bikes sitting on the showroom floor are sold inventory from the factories perspective. That may work for a year or two but what do you think happens when it comes time to reorder? Unless this industry somehow differs from every other, retailers/dealers only order what they’re confident they can sell.
I don't believe dealers "buy" bikes from manufacturers. I think they pay floor fees or something, but I am not exactly sure how it works.
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Falcon 6/21/2018 1:44pm
6/21/2018 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2018 1:45pm
40acres wrote:
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up...
It's definitely a profit for the manufacturer, they've already sold every bike on a dealer floor. Bad for the dealers, they collect dust and end up costing a ton in flooring/interest charges each month.

But, Suzuki isn't going anywhere. Like mentioned above, they're a massive company with a very broad portfolio.
HusqFan3 wrote:
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division. And i don’t...
Same could be said about a little company known as Honda but hasn’t seemed to stop them from investing in their MX division.

And i don’t buy the argument that only dealers suffer since all the bikes sitting on the showroom floor are sold inventory from the factories perspective. That may work for a year or two but what do you think happens when it comes time to reorder? Unless this industry somehow differs from every other, retailers/dealers only order what they’re confident they can sell.
NorCal 50+ wrote:
I don't believe dealers "buy" bikes from manufacturers. I think they pay floor fees or something, but I am not exactly sure how it works.
Dealers absolutely buy bikes from manufacturers. Each and every bike you see on the dealership floor is either owned or financed by the dealer (manufacturers are happy to charge them interest, i.e., "flooring" for the units that are not paid off. This arrangement is usually only good for 12 months and then the dealer has to pay up in full.)
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Falcon 6/21/2018 1:47pm
6/21/2018 1:47pm
And to answer the OP, Suzuki can survive for as long as people all over the world buy cars, marine engines, and literally hundreds of motorcycle models... including the RM-Z models.
Rotaholic
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Rotaholic 6/21/2018 1:52pm
6/21/2018 1:52pm
Suzuki sales here in NZ and Australia do really well, most bikes at tracks are yellow. KTM has started to dominate lately but still a lot of yellow bikes. I will continue to buy them, great bike for the price.
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KYFHO699 6/21/2018 2:37pm
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Falcon wrote:
And to answer the OP, Suzuki can survive for as long as people all over the world buy cars, marine engines, and literally hundreds of motorcycle...
And to answer the OP, Suzuki can survive for as long as people all over the world buy cars, marine engines, and literally hundreds of motorcycle models... including the RM-Z models.
I just returned from Japan last Friday and can tell you I probably saw more Suzuki cars than anything else. They are everywhere!
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Rdubs19 6/21/2018 2:46pm
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kb228 wrote:
As long as gixxer bros keep riding around with no helmet, shorts, tshirt, and tennis shoes theyll be around forever.
This is what I always think. Although most of the squids I see seem to just buy whatever clapped out pile is for sale at the pawn shop.
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ML512 6/21/2018 2:47pm
6/21/2018 2:47pm
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
Dont get me wrong i love suzuki's i've had 10 of them since 2002 in all sizes. suzuki obviously has one the most well put together...
Dont get me wrong i love suzuki's i've had 10 of them since 2002 in all sizes. suzuki obviously has one the most well put together chassis as evident by garnering a majority of the 450mx titles since 2005.

but KTM has set the standard as to what they need be moving towards in terms of features, weight and reliability. this is evident by Honda yamaha and kawasaki adding features that were only on KTM before. electric starting, finger follower valves, hydro clutch and special edition models.

(though i would give kudos to yamaha for really taking chances in engine performance and reliability and really doing to most to keep stride with KTM)

if anything, they could get away with the current power and features in both the 250 and 450 if they lost about 10+ lbs, heck if they just made a switch to the KTM TB they would have a power boost.
The RM-Z450 does have the KTM style throttle body.

The RM-Z250 still wouldn’t be competitive in stock tryin with 10lbs off, it needs an engine architecture overhaul. It’s glaring when you run data logging around the whole track and see how much time it can lose section to section under acceleration.
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ML512 6/21/2018 2:52pm
6/21/2018 2:52pm
Rotaholic wrote:
Suzuki sales here in NZ and Australia do really well, most bikes at tracks are yellow. KTM has started to dominate lately but still a lot...
Suzuki sales here in NZ and Australia do really well, most bikes at tracks are yellow. KTM has started to dominate lately but still a lot of yellow bikes. I will continue to buy them, great bike for the price.
The total number of Suzuki RM-Z250 and 450s imported into Australia is scary low though...I was told a year ago that the 250 import number was under 100 units a year.
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Phillip_Lamb 6/21/2018 3:02pm
6/21/2018 3:02pm
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
Dont get me wrong i love suzuki's i've had 10 of them since 2002 in all sizes. suzuki obviously has one the most well put together...
Dont get me wrong i love suzuki's i've had 10 of them since 2002 in all sizes. suzuki obviously has one the most well put together chassis as evident by garnering a majority of the 450mx titles since 2005.

but KTM has set the standard as to what they need be moving towards in terms of features, weight and reliability. this is evident by Honda yamaha and kawasaki adding features that were only on KTM before. electric starting, finger follower valves, hydro clutch and special edition models.

(though i would give kudos to yamaha for really taking chances in engine performance and reliability and really doing to most to keep stride with KTM)

if anything, they could get away with the current power and features in both the 250 and 450 if they lost about 10+ lbs, heck if they just made a switch to the KTM TB they would have a power boost.
ML512 wrote:
The RM-Z450 does have the KTM style throttle body. The RM-Z250 still wouldn’t be competitive in stock tryin with 10lbs off, it needs an engine architecture...
The RM-Z450 does have the KTM style throttle body.

The RM-Z250 still wouldn’t be competitive in stock tryin with 10lbs off, it needs an engine architecture overhaul. It’s glaring when you run data logging around the whole track and see how much time it can lose section to section under acceleration.
i was more refering to the 250 for the throttle body as i know its a common mod for race teams, but its really only a band-aid. but really both could stand to scrap the engines and start over.

heck they copied yamaha before so why not again?? or even ktms engine.
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TheLsho 6/21/2018 3:07pm
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I've heard over 400 hours on a bottom end.
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ML512 6/21/2018 3:14pm
6/21/2018 3:14pm
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
Dont get me wrong i love suzuki's i've had 10 of them since 2002 in all sizes. suzuki obviously has one the most well put together...
Dont get me wrong i love suzuki's i've had 10 of them since 2002 in all sizes. suzuki obviously has one the most well put together chassis as evident by garnering a majority of the 450mx titles since 2005.

but KTM has set the standard as to what they need be moving towards in terms of features, weight and reliability. this is evident by Honda yamaha and kawasaki adding features that were only on KTM before. electric starting, finger follower valves, hydro clutch and special edition models.

(though i would give kudos to yamaha for really taking chances in engine performance and reliability and really doing to most to keep stride with KTM)

if anything, they could get away with the current power and features in both the 250 and 450 if they lost about 10+ lbs, heck if they just made a switch to the KTM TB they would have a power boost.
ML512 wrote:
The RM-Z450 does have the KTM style throttle body. The RM-Z250 still wouldn’t be competitive in stock tryin with 10lbs off, it needs an engine architecture...
The RM-Z450 does have the KTM style throttle body.

The RM-Z250 still wouldn’t be competitive in stock tryin with 10lbs off, it needs an engine architecture overhaul. It’s glaring when you run data logging around the whole track and see how much time it can lose section to section under acceleration.
Phillip_Lamb wrote:
i was more refering to the 250 for the throttle body as i know its a common mod for race teams, but its really only a...
i was more refering to the 250 for the throttle body as i know its a common mod for race teams, but its really only a band-aid. but really both could stand to scrap the engines and start over.

heck they copied yamaha before so why not again?? or even ktms engine.
Just the throttle body by itself in the RM-Z250 would make the most minor difference, more of a throttle response thing than actual power output, which is what they’re really lacking in. I’m dissapointed to see that the ‘19 250 is continuing on with the current engine..

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