How good would KTM and Husqvarna be...

Related:
Create New Tag

12/20/2018 12:56 AM

with KYB-SSS suspension? I owned a ‘13 250 SX-F with the older forks and in stock form, it wasn’t very good at all. I also owned a ‘16 YZ 250F and the suspension was excellent. Every time I read a shootout, there are statements made such as, the KTM/Husky forks are the best air forks we’ve tried. Reading between the lines to me, this seems to mean that as good as they are, they still aren’t as good as the better spring forks. Would they have to completely rebalance the bike in order to use heavier forks? It seems these two companies have done everything possible to make their bikes the best in the world. I’d think they’d want the suspension to match that goal. I keep reading that air suspension is the future, but it seems it still has a ways to go. They already have the lightest bikes. They would still be the lightest, although by a little less.

|

Honda Rules!

12/20/2018 1:16 AM

I like the forks and shock

|

12/20/2018 1:45 AM

Jrewing wrote:

I like the forks and shock

I think many do, but have you ever owned a Yamaha with the SSS suspension and if so, how do you feel it compares to the WP suspension? Also, did you have to make very many adjustments to suit your weight and riding style?

|

Honda Rules!

12/20/2018 2:08 AM

I'm not stoked on the forks but I like the bike. 2018 KTM450 SX-F. What is the best option? Conversion for the existing forks or completely new set up? Links please.

|

12/20/2018 2:41 AM

Jrewing wrote:

I like the forks and shock

joeellis wrote:

I think many do, but have you ever owned a Yamaha with the SSS suspension and if so, how do you feel it compares to the WP suspension? Also, did you have to make very many adjustments to suit your weight and riding style?

Yeah I had a yz450 but that was a while ago so cant remember but they didn’t stand out special.

|

12/20/2018 2:54 AM

Jrewing wrote:

I like the forks and shock

joeellis wrote:

I think many do, but have you ever owned a Yamaha with the SSS suspension and if so, how do you feel it compares to the WP suspension? Also, did you have to make very many adjustments to suit your weight and riding style?

In 2017 I rode a ‘17fc250, in ‘18 and now ‘19 a yz450f and yz250f. I felt like I ended up with very good suspension by trying many suggested settings and settling on what was good. Overall for my weight the wp aer fork is better than the yz fork. I could feel the tire connected to the ground better. The rear shocks are equal, both are easy setup and just about don’t touch them. What is difficult about both forks is being patient with break-in, as they both get better with more hours on them.

|

12/20/2018 3:08 AM

joeellis wrote:

with KYB-SSS suspension? I owned a ‘13 250 SX-F with the older forks and in stock form, it wasn’t very good at all. I also owned a ‘16 YZ 250F and the suspension was excellent. Every time I read a shootout, there are statements made such as, the KTM/Husky forks are the best air forks we’ve tried. Reading between the lines to me, this seems to mean that as good as they are, they still aren’t as good as the better spring forks. Would they have to completely rebalance the bike in order to use heavier forks? It seems these two companies have done everything possible to make their bikes the best in the world. I’d think they’d want the suspension to match that goal. I keep reading that air suspension is the future, but it seems it still has a ways to go. They already have the lightest bikes. They would still be the lightest, although by a little less.

I loved the feel of SSS paired with KTM 2016+ chassis.
Way better than AERs IMO, and easier to set up. Every possible tuner should be able to set up the KYBs perfectly how you want them, not so with AERs.

|

12/20/2018 3:39 AM

My last ktm was a 15’ sx. I had less trouble getting that bike set up than my current YZ. Once set up, which took too long, I probably can’t tell much difference. It’s all in the set up. That said though, 4cs would be a no go, and the air fork could be seen as a negative as well.

|

12/20/2018 3:46 AM

Anyone remember a feed years back when we didn’t even have cartridge forks. Just adjusted the oil height a bit, or maybe drilled a few different holes in the damper rods. Then chose between one of the four compression/rebound clicks on the shock. Oh, those were the days.wink

|

12/20/2018 4:33 AM

Anyone who says any WP is as good as SSS either represents WP or is a liar.

|

12/20/2018 5:16 AM

There’s no way ktm will put on spring forks and damage their weight reputation. The “they are best air forks” jargon means nothing when they’re the only bike out with air forks.

|

12/20/2018 6:23 AM

agn5009 wrote:

Anyone who says any WP is as good as SSS either represents WP or is a liar.

You can't speak for everyone. What you like might be totally different than what someone else likes.

|

Take it to the limit, one more time!

12/20/2018 6:43 AM

My favorite upgrade that I've tried on WP forks is the DalSoggio sphere kit, they are fantastic. In my current 17 350sxf I have wp closed chamber inserts with jbi pro perches, which are very good. I think they are comparable to sss forks, or the 2 different cone valves that I've tried. All that being said, I'm 58 years old, and I don't jump big stuff on MX tracks. One of my buddies with the cone valves, who is a fast AA off road rider, seemed to like my forks very well.

|

12/20/2018 7:15 AM

I run KYB forks and TRAX shock on my KTM (although to be fair, I wasn't switching from the AER - I had WP spring forks). It was a night and day difference.

My .02 on KTM suspension in general (and I suppose WP's achilles' heal) is that you're always stuck between either plush w/no bottoming resistance (scary at speed, and downright dangerous in a lot of racing situations) and harsh with lots of bottoming resistance (beats you to death in the chop and accel/decal bumps, but takes the big hits).

The KYB SSS forks are the best of both...super plush, but I can hit anything and not bottom violently. And I never have to check the air pressure...

|

12/20/2018 7:59 AM

I've owned both and ran both... The SSS suspension on the Yamaha is over-rated, but because it's 'been' better then whats been offered by other manufacturers in the past it's now morphed into some magical unicorn suspension. Simply not the case... The WP AER stuff what's offered today is on par (and better in some areas) then the SSS stuff...

|

12/20/2018 8:00 AM

jeffro667 wrote:

My favorite upgrade that I've tried on WP forks is the DalSoggio sphere kit, they are fantastic. In my current 17 350sxf I have wp closed chamber inserts with jbi pro perches, which are very good. I think they are comparable to sss forks, or the 2 different cone valves that I've tried. All that being said, I'm 58 years old, and I don't jump big stuff on MX tracks. One of my buddies with the cone valves, who is a fast AA off road rider, seemed to like my forks very well.

The Dal Soggio Spheres are excellent...

|

12/20/2018 8:11 AM

Doesn't KYB make and insert kit for the WP fork? I know WP has ( had? ) an insert available through FC.....anyone try that?

|

And there goes Jeffro. One of God's own prototypes. A super high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

Pimpin' Ho's , Rollin' fatty's......drinkin' beers , beers , beers!! ~ Ja

12/20/2018 8:14 AM
Edited Date/Time: 12/20/2018 8:14 AM

agn5009 wrote:

Anyone who says any WP is as good as SSS either represents WP or is a liar.

mx317 wrote:

You can't speak for everyone. What you like might be totally different than what someone else likes.

Some people will say a well done steak is better too. Doesn’t mean they’re right.

|

12/20/2018 9:44 AM

Yami suspenders may be the best out of the box but I still had to get em revalved to be more comfortable on them. They aren’t magic like some here say. I just revalved my WP stuff as well and they do the job.

|

12/20/2018 10:00 AM

I have a set of WP forks converted to SSS by ENZO on my 18 FE...works very nice.

|

Germany 1975 250 CZ Centerport, laydown shocks, mikuni with reed valve, Marzocchi forks with me as the motopilot

12/20/2018 10:01 AM

Monk wrote:

I've owned both and ran both... The SSS suspension on the Yamaha is over-rated, but because it's 'been' better then whats been offered by other manufacturers in the past it's now morphed into some magical unicorn suspension. Simply not the case... The WP AER stuff what's offered today is on par (and better in some areas) then the SSS stuff...

Which areas is the AER better than a properly set-up KYB fork? Just curious....

|

12/20/2018 10:03 AM

agn5009 wrote:

Anyone who says any WP is as good as SSS either represents WP or is a liar.

I like how you conflated an entire brand of suspension with a specific subset of KYB forks and then called anybody who disagrees a shill or a liar. This is peak internet.

|

If it can't be fixed with a hammer, it's an electrical problem.

12/20/2018 10:21 AM

agn5009 wrote:

Anyone who says any WP is as good as SSS either represents WP or is a liar.

SeaClassExpert wrote:

I like how you conflated an entire brand of suspension with a specific subset of KYB forks and then called anybody who disagrees a shill or a liar. This is peak internet.

It’s a joke bud. Welcome to the internet.

|

12/20/2018 10:22 AM

seth505 wrote:

Yami suspenders may be the best out of the box but I still had to get em revalved to be more comfortable on them. They aren’t magic like some here say. I just revalved my WP stuff as well and they do the job.

Maybe I should had said out of the box. That is really what I meant. Most shortcomings on bikes can be made much better, but not everyone wants to spend more money for any type of upgrade. I haven't had the opportunity to ride a newer brand KTM/Husky with the AER forks, I can only compare what I've owned; '13 SX250F, '16YZ250F & '17 CRF450F and of those, the KYB (in production form) was the best for me. The Showa gear on the Honda wasn't bad either, but the WP forks bottomed easily (even on hard braking) and was very harsh on chop. No matter how I adjusted them I couldn't find a happy medium.

I realize they've come along way with the AER forks, but it seems that in most shootouts, they still don't quite match up to some of the other forks. All other manufacturers have accepted the weight penalty and returned to spring forks, another indicator in my mind that air forks still have a ways to go. I'm in no way saying the WP forks aren't good, I only wanted to hear others experience. I'm actually considering purchasing a KTM or Husqvarna in the future. I believe they're exceptional brands and have caused the other brands to get better.

|

Honda Rules!

12/20/2018 10:49 AM

Monk wrote:

I've owned both and ran both... The SSS suspension on the Yamaha is over-rated, but because it's 'been' better then whats been offered by other manufacturers in the past it's now morphed into some magical unicorn suspension. Simply not the case... The WP AER stuff what's offered today is on par (and better in some areas) then the SSS stuff...

Natester551v wrote:

Which areas is the AER better than a properly set-up KYB fork? Just curious....

As oppose to a improperly setup AER fork? Your question doesn't exactly give AER forks a fair comparison then.

One of the largest problems the AER forks suffer is stiction due to its design. Companies like SKF offer a great kit that virtually eliminates stiction and makes the forks extremely progressive through the whole stroke.

I personally like my forks to ride higher in the stroke which is what the AER forks do really well so in flat corners they stick better then spring forks. The also seem to handle the bigger hits with less compromise then the SSS stuff. Now being a offroad guy, big hits are g-outs on fast fire roads, larger logs/rocks/tires (anything EX related), and even extended whoop sections (one race in Washington was literally 11 miles of whoops for 3hrs). The 3lb weight savings does offer an advantage in direction change, especially in an offroad environment where its constant weight transfer.

But like I said, magic unicorn SSS suspension will always be regarded as better regardless of what I, or anyone says.

|

12/20/2018 10:54 AM

We have ‘05 and ‘06 YZ125s. I can’t really talk about how much better the KTMs would be with SSS suspension but I notice a big difference going from the ‘05 to the ‘06.

|

12/20/2018 10:55 AM

James Dunn won a round of the emx250 support class to mxgp on revalved stock WP components so anyone that thinks the AER setup is holding them back is kidding themselves.

I dont buy into the SSS have something magical, it's just shims on pistons going through an oil cartridge like every other modern fork.

|

12/20/2018 11:11 AM

I think all forks are a pos. Why this day in age you cannot just simply adjust them yourselves is beyond me. Of course you can vary the bypass, but i mean valving, Preferably with clickers, but Even if you had a modular design where you could simply buy and swap out components that were packaged in such a way anybody could do it. And yes i know you can buy a similar deal from race tech and others but its hit or miss. Sss are good but like the other poster said so is the aer and they are 3 lbs lighter. The sss like all forks still need modification. Mine are too stiff out of the box.

|

sponsored by zip tie, JB weld and peanut butter and jelly

12/20/2018 11:15 AM

Bruce372 wrote:

James Dunn won a round of the emx250 support class to mxgp on revalved stock WP components so anyone that thinks the AER setup is holding them back is kidding themselves.

I dont buy into the SSS have something magical, it's just shims on pistons going through an oil cartridge like every other modern fork.

And yet (most) everybody agrees that they do what all other modern suspension does, better.

|

12/20/2018 11:33 AM

Monk wrote:

I've owned both and ran both... The SSS suspension on the Yamaha is over-rated, but because it's 'been' better then whats been offered by other manufacturers in the past it's now morphed into some magical unicorn suspension. Simply not the case... The WP AER stuff what's offered today is on par (and better in some areas) then the SSS stuff...

Natester551v wrote:

Which areas is the AER better than a properly set-up KYB fork? Just curious....

Monk wrote:

As oppose to a improperly setup AER fork? Your question doesn't exactly give AER forks a fair comparison then.

One of the largest problems the AER forks suffer is stiction due to its design. Companies like SKF offer a great kit that virtually eliminates stiction and makes the forks extremely progressive through the whole stroke.

I personally like my forks to ride higher in the stroke which is what the AER forks do really well so in flat corners they stick better then spring forks. The also seem to handle the bigger hits with less compromise then the SSS stuff. Now being a offroad guy, big hits are g-outs on fast fire roads, larger logs/rocks/tires (anything EX related), and even extended whoop sections (one race in Washington was literally 11 miles of whoops for 3hrs). The 3lb weight savings does offer an advantage in direction change, especially in an offroad environment where its constant weight transfer.

But like I said, magic unicorn SSS suspension will always be regarded as better regardless of what I, or anyone says.

cool - I've never ridden on AER (and I wasn't trying to imply that an improperly set up AER fork should be somehow compared - just making the point that any fork, regardless of the tech, needs to be set up for the individual).

It's a weird deal, because so much of it comes down to feel, riding style, body type, terrain. I've actually got Showa on my RM250 that is pretty sweet (and from what I understand pretty similar to the KYB stuff), but haven't had the best experience with WP over the years. They've gotten better for sure, but for me it really comes down to that window of adjustment, or how hard it is to get to the sweet spot. KYB SSS stuff has always seemed much easier for me to get to a place where I'm comfortable, whereas with WP I end up chasing my tail a lot.

|