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Shane mclerath
The list is far deeper than that Im sure.
As well as every single kid who attends these races. Be sure to add that to the advertisement - if you aren't top 3 dont show up please.
But I hadn't' read the rules in about 2 years - and I appreciate the change. up to 30 minutes post race - and the year suspension is good.
It's still taboo....The team pro 250f's are far in excess of 1.5 or even 2. Kit suspension alone puts them above 1.5
Until the rule become common place - it's not effective.
I still stand behind 2 once you are in supermini onwards (schoolboy, b etc) and 2.5 for A
2 barely covers the cost of ASSEMBLING a supermini - let alone building one.
YZ85 - 4500MSRP
Long swingarm kit was 800?
ANY SORT of 112 build that makes acceptable power will cost you 2500 - bore, replate, port, head, piston kit, stroke a crank, and assembly
Pipe, silencer 350
Set of quality big wheels that have rotors, tires, tubes, sprockets cost you 1200
Graphics 200 - not a necessity but practically is these days sadly
Revalve OEM suspension from FC or ENZO - minimum 600 - as high as 1400
That totals - 9100 using low end of suspension cost.
An idea for stock class - how about make the claim rule for limited classes 1.2 times MSRP (in case they paid tax and covers suspension)
Make NO other rules except stock displacement for the class. Just say in the class title - CLAIM CLASS 1.2 times MSRP
Then promote usage of the claim and make sure it's understood. Do all you want - but get your bike taken if you do too much.
My dad gave up a lot for me. It’s crazy now that I think about it. I saw him Wednesday for practice. And we raced Saturday and Sundays. Otherwise he was working 16s a lot to keep up. And that was 15 years ago. Not sure you can even keep pace today. But run with what you got. I remember villopoto Kawi getting claimed by the king family and they couldnt keep it running. So claiming is prettt much pointless.
As in, if you made rules defining an amateur, what are they?
This like the NCAA, where everyone gets to make money off the kids, except the kids themselves?
The Shop
and we all know that the people in the industry do see them, i see all the time a subject come up here on vital and then read a story about it from the moto media.
So how about this , What would need to happen for it to change?
My guess is thst it would have to start with the people at the top getting together and having a series of meetings,
Does that happen now?
Do the people that have enough pull to get the ball rolling
Toward some changes even know that they have such power?
I have read or heard podcast interviews, of people that i would think have a lot of clout and would likely be in on such a meeting if it happened. And listening to them and and thinking wow they have some of the same thoughts as the rest of us, but they dont seem to realize that they are the ones that are in a position to make changes.
That’s an amatuer.
Its ridiculous that we don't have an EMX style 125 Futures program here instead of a novelty race at select events.
That's why the sport is so messy. Just like NCAA
Kids cant get paid and be non pro - so the teams pay the parents...under the title "mechanic" and the kids get all sorts of perks and free stuff etc...
And of course we aren't even talking about the bike or program that goes with it.
I totally agree the WHOLE sport is a sham - but sadly it's probably the best sham worldwide to date. SOME people can utilize this sport to make money off it - even if indirectly and you see that with privateers all the time.
I don't know Jimmy albertsons best results historically - I know in his prime he was top 8ish?? But he did really well for a non consistent podium guy....because he leveraged his position and obviously knew how to line up support.
I think the divide is so WIDE now - that it has become more an issue to keep people chasing the dream - the jeff emig type story isn't really a reality anymore - AND oems are no longer supporting LOTS of kids - because there aren't lots of kids riding.
It takes so much more to get to the top level now than it did money wise...that's what the thread is all about. Im not certain it can go backwards.
It be like saying Nascar could implement "spec rules" that would lower the cost of racing.....it ultimately drastically increased the cost.
Here’s a 2004 B class photo.
What do you notice ? (Let me help you out...a lot of stock graphics) no bling-bling. as consumers we are making this sport expensive. We are partly to blame as well. Stock graphics 2019 ? Omg who does that?!?!? newbs. See all those guys standing around in the background Of the photo ? Those are amatuer mechanics. Dad’s. No shirt. Cheap sunglasses.....are some of you people seeing the progression of the sport ?
Do you think that having a "spec" lower octane fuel (94) would be effective in limiting engine build cost?
If pops buys a pit board, they're no longer an amateur?
Mom embroiders or has some shirts printed, Lil' Jimmy is no longer an amateur?
Pit Row
You going to accept "pit board protests?"
Bobby saw "Lil' Jimmy's Mom with a pit board last year," and that's an acceptable and enforceable protest?
Do you expect FMF to label their pit boards they sell for "Professional Use only?"
"Any use of this pit board will automatically advance your racer to professional status, regardless of results or experience?"
It is great seeing civil discussion by knowledgeable insiders as well as thought provoking questions without it turning into name calling or belittling replies. Can we maybe keep it that way?
One thing that has been missing is how factory contengencies play into all this amateur fuzzyness.
I personally believe it is time for them to go. Since they were implemented it seems like the incentive to advance has gone away. Why move from c to b, or b to a if it is actually going to cost you?
Over the years riders ethics have become clouded. People that seem extremely honest had no problem falsifying information on Vin #s, and even going so far as to lie about what brand they were actually riding to get contengencies from the highest paying brand.
Motocross truly lost it's innocents when honda went to paying their program by giving it on credit cards that could be used just like money. How does that not affect someone's amateur status, yet cash does?
Finally, it is good that the ama finally came up with rider advancement system. Unfortunately what they came up with is barely better than nothing. In my opinion the current system has only contributed to the drop off in local racing participation because riders don't want to accumulate any more points than they earn anywhere except the large events they must race to build an amateur resume.
It has most likely contributed to the growing trend of aspiring amateur riders skipping local races to stay at training facilities and only race the minimum number of races they need to qualify for national events.
The system needs a serious restructuring and should exclude grassroots races and series.
I do not think that rule in that manner would help - any time you place limitations IMHO it increases the cost to go racing, and fuel right now isn't what makes the power per say. I like having fuel companies involved - it's good for the racing economy.
Nascar spends millions to chase 1-5 hp and they are highly regulated!
I think a restrictor plate type rule would work. Say a spec size carb/throttle body. But it's tough. The more you spend the better you can still make that engine...even with a restrictor.
So it's tough. I really think the claim rule is the best solution - as long as its embraced and respected. Build anything you wish - and chase all you want. But if it becomes obvious the bike is the advantage - expect to loose it.
It also eliminates any excuse and argument that parents like to make. As a builder I hear it every day. Our kid needs more power - that's why he is loosing. Work harder HP, my kid is loosing cause that kid has a lynks motor and we dont...or PC...or twisted...whatever - find more.
Then you go do laptimes on a stock 85 vs a supermini that's 10 hp up for the kid and he turns the same lap times...
Or your customer buys the package they think was the answer - only to have the kid then the dyno confirm that it's slower...which happens a lot industry wide for any company. Grass is always greener...
Our sport is so goofy - humans are so dishonest with themselves - and I truly don't have a clue how we get out of this really weird spot the sport is in. I think until pro racing is more transparent in salaries, contracts, purses, etc...
People will continue to chase the "dream" that isn't a reality.
I'd bet most families who are spending the big bucks at this - say 100+k a year - which is a drop in the bucket for many people in this sport - if they knew truly what the career earnings were for all the pros - would quit chasing it.
If you earn 250k-300k a year for extended periods, and see a damn good pro like a mcelrath or someone - who earns say less than 1 million a year, with large expenditures - california housing costs, etc...
You may say son - join the family business and over 20 years your way better off with far less risk.
I think if jesse nelson ever fully opened up it would deter a lot of people...
As an engine builder, what are your thoughts on doing the restrictor on the exhaust instead of on the intake?
Much easier to install and check, and would have the added benifits of cutting the noise as well as keep participants from purchasing expensive aftermarket exhaust systems they have come to believe are required to be competitive.
2. Do you actually not know the definition of what amateur is?
Having your parents buy you a bike doesnt disqualify you from being an amateur.
If you exceeded the allowable HP, you were DQ'd
Was designed to keep it level regardless of money or team.
Then it became a suspension and geometry set up game
Long Game- increase the field.
Crazy idea...but add a 2 stroke class to SX/MX
This could trickle down, less money for factory teams to throw around because their tip guys aren't getting as much purse earnings.
* A feeder system like High School sports?
* A way to sell more bikes?
* A way to provide parity by handicapping?
* A way to foster fun, close racing?
* A way to make the sport more accessible to the masses?
* A way to keep the costs down for the average Joe?
* A way to keep local shops and tracks viable?
* A way to make racing safer?
You could go on and on. The stakeholders get to call most of the shots, the rest is just opinion.
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